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Post by noah shain on Jul 16, 2017 11:44:56 GMT -6
Does anyone have and like them or are people buying on spec ? Yes, I have and like and have posted about this and the KT1176. I will be grabbing at least one more at this price... Any chance of you taking a pic of the guts? The way these are laid out you can't see anything! I wanna see those transformers! On behalf of the curious RGO membership, I thank you.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 11:53:56 GMT -6
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Post by noah shain on Jul 16, 2017 12:12:24 GMT -6
Thanks man. FAR from a clone. I'm sure it sounds great and will do what you'd want it to do but this is not a clone of a pultec. It's a facsimilie. I'll probably get one just cuz it's so cheap. I think if there are buyers in the market for a pultec, that have pultec $, they are probably educated enough to know why they want a pultec. This will not satisfy the them. The guys I know that have pultecs want very specific design and components. This looks like an entry in to the cheap eq market more than a clone. No serious pultec consumer is gonna buy this. I think ANY eq with any functionality/topography is gonna sell at this price point. Am I wrong?
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Post by EmRR on Jul 16, 2017 12:34:08 GMT -6
One truth of success in any is the overload quality of the high boost EQ inductor. Another is the mimicry of the creamy veiled smear of the original Triad input transformer, which is honestly what people seem most enamored about with originals; it's at least the primary thing I think of when talking Pultec.
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Post by Guitar on Jul 16, 2017 13:53:27 GMT -6
Thanks man. FAR from a clone. I'm sure it sounds great and will do what you'd want it to do but this is not a clone of a pultec. It's a facsimilie. I'll probably get one just cuz it's so cheap. I think if there are buyers in the market for a pultec, that have pultec $, they are probably educated enough to know why they want a pultec. This will not satisfy the them. The guys I know that have pultecs want very specific design and components. This looks like an entry in to the cheap eq market more than a clone. No serious pultec consumer is gonna buy this. I think ANY eq with any functionality/topography is gonna sell at this price point. Am I wrong? Can you be more specific about the "specifics" you mentioned? Just trying to understand the differences you are seeing.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 16, 2017 13:57:35 GMT -6
Yes, I have and like and have posted about this and the KT1176. I will be grabbing at least one more at this price... Any chance of you taking a pic of the guts? The way these are laid out you can't see anything! I wanna see those transformers! On behalf of the curious RGO membership, I thank you. The thing is mostly surface mount and the Transformers are their own "Midas" Transformers, Rumor has it the Modders at Revieve Audio find it a better platform than the Warm.
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Post by noah shain on Jul 16, 2017 14:57:31 GMT -6
Thanks man. FAR from a clone. I'm sure it sounds great and will do what you'd want it to do but this is not a clone of a pultec. It's a facsimilie. I'll probably get one just cuz it's so cheap. I think if there are buyers in the market for a pultec, that have pultec $, they are probably educated enough to know why they want a pultec. This will not satisfy the them. The guys I know that have pultecs want very specific design and components. This looks like an entry in to the cheap eq market more than a clone. No serious pultec consumer is gonna buy this. I think ANY eq with any functionality/topography is gonna sell at this price point. Am I wrong? Can you be more specific about the "specifics" you mentioned? Just trying to understand the differences you are seeing. Just a cursory glance and I can't see much and I'm no electronics engineer but it's different from a pultec. For starters I can only see 2 tubes in that case. Possible there's more. A pultec has 5. The layout is worlds away from a pultec layout which has tubes and transformers outside the case. From my limited conversations with tube designers, layout is dramatically important. I'm no pultec expert and I wouldn't buy a real one even if I could afford it. I do have a Retro 2a3 and I like it but my point was not to tear apart that design, just to say that this thing isn't really a 300 dollar pultec. It's a 300 dollar eq that borrows from the Pultec. I don't mean to make myself sound like I know what the F I'm talking about from a design standpoint...I don't. I just know it ain't a pultec. It's a cheap eq made with modern components. I bet it's really functional and I will probably get one. The pultec functionality that it does have is something I find really useful and I always wish I had 3 in a mix. Kick x 2 and bass. I just don't think this thing is gonna eat in to the market of anyone who's making a serious pultec clone. People with big cash are still gonna go boutique. People with less cash and different standards are less concerned and want functionality for cheap. This is only gonna compete with other manufacturers who make fairly cheap stuff that borrows some elements of classic designs...that's shark infested waters there. The big ones have always eaten the little ones in that pool. I guess I'm really just agreeing with others who've already posted. I don't see a crime here...precedent has already been set. It ain't no clone tho FWIW I don't hear the magic of pultecs. I like the way they work but have not found the 8 or 10 real ones I've used to be magic boxes at all. Used to be the only way to get those eq curves happening in 1 box but never magic for me. Possible they were all running out of spec or poorly maintained or something. Also possible my ears suck. Anyway...
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Post by Guitar on Jul 16, 2017 15:17:43 GMT -6
Can you be more specific about the "specifics" you mentioned? Just trying to understand the differences you are seeing. Just a cursory glance and I can't see much and I'm no electronics engineer but it's different from a pultec. For starters I can only see 2 tubes in that case. Possible there's more. A pultec has 5. The layout is worlds away from a pultec layout which has tubes and transformers outside the case. From my limited conversations with tube designers, layout is dramatically important. I'm no pultec expert and I wouldn't buy a real one even if I could afford it. I do have a Retro 2a3 and I like it but my point was not to tear apart that design, just to say that this thing isn't really a 300 dollar pultec. It's a 300 dollar eq that borrows from the Pultec. I don't mean to make myself sound like I know what the F I'm talking about from a design standpoint...I don't. I just know it ain't a pultec. It's a cheap eq made with modern components. I bet it's really functional and I will probably get one. The pultec functionality that it does have is something I find really useful and I always wish I had 3 in a mix. Kick x 2 and bass. I just don't think this thing is gonna eat in to the market of anyone who's making a serious pultec clone. People with big cash are still gonna go boutique. People with less cash and different standards are less concerned and want functionality for cheap. This is only gonna compete with other manufacturers who make fairly cheap stuff that borrows some elements of classic designs...that's shark infested waters there. The big ones have always eaten the little ones in that pool. I guess I'm really just agreeing with others who've already posted. I don't see a crime here...precedent has already been set. It ain't no clone tho FWIW I don't hear the magic of pultecs. I like the way they work but have not found the 8 or 10 real ones I've used to be magic boxes at all. Used to be the only way to get those eq curves happening in 1 box but never magic for me. Possible they were all running out of spec or poorly maintained or something. Also possible my ears suck. Anyway... Cool, I think you are right about the 'lay of the land' as it were. The AML ezP-1A kit also has only two valves, but it does have that third transformer, I think, that these Warms and KT's do not. If I recall correctly, I think Jeff Steiger might have been one person that liked this one. The third valve, that the $3,500 reissue pultec has and these do not, is a rectifier tube in the power supply. As we all know power supplies are important, and that is a definite lack of authenticity for all of them, except the really expensive one. A solid state PSU is certainly a cost-saver, I would imagine. You can also spot this third tube (rectifier) on the old Pultec schematics. I don't see any mono EQP-1A with five valves, in my short searches. I'm sure a stereo 'pultec' might have 5 tubes. The Manley Massive Passive apparently has 6 tubes. On the 'not a clone' front, there are also WAY more center frequencies available on the KT unit, which I really welcome. On my Lindell PEX-500 eq's there are even fewer, but it's crammed into a 500 series size. The DIY Recording one...even less. Anyway I am very much a mid-end purchaser and equipment user, so I really don't have anything important to say about the more expensive stuff. I'm just really excited I get to try out a new EQ by the end of the month! I'll probably be pretty chatty when it gets here and patched in.
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Post by noah shain on Jul 16, 2017 15:53:10 GMT -6
Just a cursory glance and I can't see much and I'm no electronics engineer but it's different from a pultec. For starters I can only see 2 tubes in that case. Possible there's more. A pultec has 5. The layout is worlds away from a pultec layout which has tubes and transformers outside the case. From my limited conversations with tube designers, layout is dramatically important. I'm no pultec expert and I wouldn't buy a real one even if I could afford it. I do have a Retro 2a3 and I like it but my point was not to tear apart that design, just to say that this thing isn't really a 300 dollar pultec. It's a 300 dollar eq that borrows from the Pultec. I don't mean to make myself sound like I know what the F I'm talking about from a design standpoint...I don't. I just know it ain't a pultec. It's a cheap eq made with modern components. I bet it's really functional and I will probably get one. The pultec functionality that it does have is something I find really useful and I always wish I had 3 in a mix. Kick x 2 and bass. I just don't think this thing is gonna eat in to the market of anyone who's making a serious pultec clone. People with big cash are still gonna go boutique. People with less cash and different standards are less concerned and want functionality for cheap. This is only gonna compete with other manufacturers who make fairly cheap stuff that borrows some elements of classic designs...that's shark infested waters there. The big ones have always eaten the little ones in that pool. I guess I'm really just agreeing with others who've already posted. I don't see a crime here...precedent has already been set. It ain't no clone tho FWIW I don't hear the magic of pultecs. I like the way they work but have not found the 8 or 10 real ones I've used to be magic boxes at all. Used to be the only way to get those eq curves happening in 1 box but never magic for me. Possible they were all running out of spec or poorly maintained or something. Also possible my ears suck. Anyway... Cool, I think you are right about the 'lay of the land' as it were. The AML ezP-1A kit also has only two valves, but it does have that third transformer, I think, that these Warms and KT's do not. If I recall correctly, I think Jeff Steiger might have been one person that liked this one. The third valve, that the $3,500 reissue pultec has and these do not, is a rectifier tube in the power supply. As we all know power supplies are important, and that is a definite lack of authenticity for all of them, except the really expensive one. A solid state PSU is certainly a cost-saver, I would imagine. You can also spot this third tube (rectifier) on the old Pultec schematics. I don't see any mono EQP-1A with five valves, in my short searches. I'm sure a stereo 'pultec' might have 5 tubes. The Manley Massive Passive apparently has 6 tubes. On the 'not a clone' front, there are also WAY more center frequencies available on the KT unit, which I really welcome. On my Lindell PEX-500 eq's there are even fewer, but it's crammed into a 500 series size. The DIY Recording one...even less. Anyway I am very much a mid-end purchaser and equipment user, so I really don't have anything important to say about the more expensive stuff. I'm just really excited I get to try out a new EQ by the end of the month! I'll probably be pretty chatty when it gets here and patched in. Yes yes...3 tubes 🤦♂️ Hahahaha What a loudmouth I am
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2017 15:56:14 GMT -6
Any chance of you taking a pic of the guts? The way these are laid out you can't see anything! I wanna see those transformers! On behalf of the curious RGO membership, I thank you. The thing is mostly surface mount and the Transformers are their own "Midas" Transformers, Rumor has it the Modders at Revieve Audio find it a better platform than the Warm. Hmmm... so let's say if you could get it tuned up and modded by Revive for, say, $300... for $599 total you'd probably have something pretty nifty.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 16, 2017 16:12:59 GMT -6
The thing is mostly surface mount and the Transformers are their own "Midas" Transformers, Rumor has it the Modders at Revieve Audio find it a better platform than the Warm. Hmmm... so let's say if you could get it tuned up and modded by Revive for, say, $300... for $599 total you'd probably have something pretty nifty. Maybe, will it be more of a pultec? I don't know !
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Post by pope on Jul 16, 2017 16:27:35 GMT -6
Hmmm... so let's say if you could get it tuned up and modded by Revive for, say, $300... for $599 total you'd probably have something pretty nifty. Maybe, will it be more of a pultec? I don't know ! If they replace everything but the case it will be more of a pultec indeed.
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Post by Guitar on Jul 16, 2017 16:33:39 GMT -6
$3,000 vs $300. Both hardware.
I would just like to remind of that, as a theme for this discussion.
I don't really get why people like to bash on cheaper gear so much. I'm not saying anyone is out of line, it just strikes me.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 16, 2017 17:08:04 GMT -6
Maybe, will it be more of a pultec? I don't know ! If they replace everything but the case it will be more of a pultec indeed. Okay I get that this isn't a dead on copy by any means BUT when I listen to people Like Brad Mcgowen talk about his mini 1176 SMP module and think well what if you apply this to the pultec circuit, which is what this is. Okay they removed the tube based PSU, but every PSU guy I know who cares more about what a PSU dose rather than historically correctness tells me Solid state performs better. The Transformers, well they are not from a Boutique Audio Transformer manufacture, but again I know an OEM house can build an affordable great sounding audio transformer. So why can't Music Group with all the collective talent they have brought together with the manufacturing capabilities they have make a a good sounding Transformer? I have been one of Music Groups most vocal critics, but I keep hearing how they are putting money into their acquisitions and encourage the talent to do what they want, something they were not able to do for years! Now here's something a lot of people don't get : the talent at the larger companies is just as talented as any boutique company and many know these old classics as well as anybody. They also have access to manufacturing methods and purchasing experts that the little guys dream of ! So why can't they apply all this and get as close as those who are trying to do it historically correct with a far amount of parts that are not historically correct? Let's give them a chance, it might scare the hell out of some and make others giddy!
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Post by noah shain on Jul 16, 2017 18:41:44 GMT -6
If they replace everything but the case it will be more of a pultec indeed. Okay I get that this isn't a dead on copy by any means BUT when I listen to people Like Brad Mcgowen talk about his mini 1176 SMP module and think well what if you apply this to the pultec circuit, which is what this is. Okay they removed the tube based PSU, but every PSU guy I know who cares more about what a PSU dose rather than historically correctness tells me Solid state performs better. The Transformers, well they are not from a Boutique Audio Transformer manufacture, but again I know an OEM house can build an affordable great sounding audio transformer. So why can't Music Group with all the collective talent they have brought together with the manufacturing capabilities they have make a a good sounding Transformer? I have been one of Music Groups most vocal critics, but I keep hearing how they are putting money into their acquisitions and encourage the talent to do what they want, something they were not able to do for years! Now here's something a lot of people don't get : the talent at the larger companies is just as talented as any boutique company and many know these old classics as well as anybody. They also have access to manufacturing methods and purchasing experts that the little guys dream of ! So why can't they apply all this and get as close as those who are trying to do it historically correct with a far amount of parts that are not historically correct? Let's give them a chance, it might scare the hell out of some and make others giddy! Agreed. I didn't mean to give the impression I was bashing. I was actually defending. I'm in to it. I ordered one. Ill probably swap some tubes at some point. But for an outside kick mic...I bet this gives me what I'm after.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jul 16, 2017 20:32:05 GMT -6
The whole pultec war aside: it is a lot of eq for 3 bones!
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Post by johneppstein on Jul 16, 2017 22:08:17 GMT -6
rowmat , didn't Warm undercut the competition into oblivion with the WA76? At $600, they undercut everyone by 50%. That's why I have a pair. Warm isn't a behemoth that owns their own manufacturing city with the economic power to undercut the competition to oblivion. Music group is, has, and does. They have also adopted the extremely dodgy tactic of taking over famous, highly respected brands and using them as a weapon to seize market share based brand recogition that they did not earn and a reputation for quality that they do not deserve. Contrast with Peavey, which also a company structured as a vertical monopoly with the power, if they wanted to use it that way, to wreck havoc on the markets they compete in. Fortunately Hartley is an ethical human being and foregoes that temptation. Uli, it would appear, is not.
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Post by johneppstein on Jul 16, 2017 22:32:22 GMT -6
If they replace everything but the case it will be more of a pultec indeed. Okay I get that this isn't a dead on copy by any means BUT when I listen to people Like Brad Mcgowen talk about his mini 1176 SMP module and think well what if you apply this to the pultec circuit, which is what this is. Okay they removed the tube based PSU, but every PSU guy I know who cares more about what a PSU dose rather than historically correctness tells me Solid state performs better. The Transformers, well they are not from a Boutique Audio Transformer manufacture, but again I know an OEM house can build an affordable great sounding audio transformer. So why can't Music Group with all the collective talent they have brought together with the manufacturing capabilities they have make a a good sounding Transformer? I have been one of Music Groups most vocal critics, but I keep hearing how they are putting money into their acquisitions and encourage the talent to do what they want, something they were not able to do for years! Now here's something a lot of people don't get : the talent at the larger companies is just as talented as any boutique company and many know these old classics as well as anybody. They also have access to manufacturing methods and purchasing experts that the little guys dream of ! So why can't they apply all this and get as close as those who are trying to do it historically correct with a far amount of parts that are not historically correct? Let's give them a chance, it might scare the hell out of some and make others giddy! If I'm not mistaken (and I might be) wasn't one of the big "things" about the original Pultecs the proprietary hand made inductors (built employing special winding techniques) in the EQ circuit? There's no way in hell that Uli could ever duplicate those in his gargantuan factories - and I'm betting that he doesn't even try, probably just buys in large quantity, mass produced on machines by one of his OEM suppliers. Some things are simply not amenable to large scale mass production.
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Post by levon on Jul 16, 2017 23:15:51 GMT -6
seems waaaay overpriced in Europe now - still pretty much 700 euros.
Wonder how the guys who put their faith behind the KT brand and paid $700 for the original release feel now? Yes, 777 euros at Thomann. Way too much for Behringer's junk. If I really want one, Robert at ProReplicas is making a wonderful Pultec, which, admittedly, almost doubles the KT price, but I'd rather pay more for better quality. I trust Robert's work more than Uli's.
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Post by rowmat on Jul 16, 2017 23:16:12 GMT -6
Generic stock photos used to illustrate a companies 'personable' credentials are typically a sign it is probably not... www.music-group.com/joinus/what-we-doThat aside, keep making music regardless.
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Post by rowmat on Jul 16, 2017 23:27:23 GMT -6
Anyway Music Group is a holding company so they technically don't manufacture anything.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 17, 2017 6:48:16 GMT -6
Okay I get that this isn't a dead on copy by any means BUT when I listen to people Like Brad Mcgowen talk about his mini 1176 SMP module and think well what if you apply this to the pultec circuit, which is what this is. Okay they removed the tube based PSU, but every PSU guy I know who cares more about what a PSU dose rather than historically correctness tells me Solid state performs better. The Transformers, well they are not from a Boutique Audio Transformer manufacture, but again I know an OEM house can build an affordable great sounding audio transformer. So why can't Music Group with all the collective talent they have brought together with the manufacturing capabilities they have make a a good sounding Transformer? I have been one of Music Groups most vocal critics, but I keep hearing how they are putting money into their acquisitions and encourage the talent to do what they want, something they were not able to do for years! Now here's something a lot of people don't get : the talent at the larger companies is just as talented as any boutique company and many know these old classics as well as anybody. They also have access to manufacturing methods and purchasing experts that the little guys dream of ! So why can't they apply all this and get as close as those who are trying to do it historically correct with a far amount of parts that are not historically correct? Let's give them a chance, it might scare the hell out of some and make others giddy! If I'm not mistaken (and I might be) wasn't one of the big "things" about the original Pultecs the proprietary hand made inductors (built employing special winding techniques) in the EQ circuit? There's no way in hell that Uli could ever duplicate those in his gargantuan factories - and I'm betting that he doesn't even try, probably just buys in large quantity, mass produced on machines by one of his OEM suppliers. Some things are simply not amenable to large scale mass production. I don't think anybody is hand winding the inductors anymore, that said who says a custom winding machine couldn't do it and just as if not more consistently today?
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 17, 2017 8:39:53 GMT -6
Okay I get that this isn't a dead on copy by any means BUT when I listen to people Like Brad Mcgowen talk about his mini 1176 SMP module and think well what if you apply this to the pultec circuit, which is what this is. Okay they removed the tube based PSU, but every PSU guy I know who cares more about what a PSU dose rather than historically correctness tells me Solid state performs better. The Transformers, well they are not from a Boutique Audio Transformer manufacture, but again I know an OEM house can build an affordable great sounding audio transformer. So why can't Music Group with all the collective talent they have brought together with the manufacturing capabilities they have make a a good sounding Transformer? I have been one of Music Groups most vocal critics, but I keep hearing how they are putting money into their acquisitions and encourage the talent to do what they want, something they were not able to do for years! Now here's something a lot of people don't get : the talent at the larger companies is just as talented as any boutique company and many know these old classics as well as anybody. They also have access to manufacturing methods and purchasing experts that the little guys dream of ! So why can't they apply all this and get as close as those who are trying to do it historically correct with a far amount of parts that are not historically correct? Let's give them a chance, it might scare the hell out of some and make others giddy! Agreed. I didn't mean to give the impression I was bashing. I was actually defending. I'm in to it. I ordered one. Ill probably swap some tubes at some point. But for an outside kick mic...I bet this gives me what I'm after. Yeah I just gave in and ordered one as well even if it sucks I bet I can sell it local in 6 months and clear $250 !
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Post by EmRR on Jul 17, 2017 8:53:00 GMT -6
Pultec used the commonly accepted winding method for audio inductors at the time they were made, which is not a method used anymore. Steiger had Ed do some like that for one of his EQ's, and the Analog Allstars 500 series Pultec uses one of the same materials and variety. Chris Preston offers his Pultec EQ module for building or restoring. The core material behaves differently than what is commonly used now, and at one point looked tough to get. Clearly can be done though.
I have a whole box of NOS/NIB Triad inductors that are that method and material, waiting to do a custom EQ.....
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Post by johneppstein on Jul 18, 2017 0:51:33 GMT -6
If I'm not mistaken (and I might be) wasn't one of the big "things" about the original Pultecs the proprietary hand made inductors (built employing special winding techniques) in the EQ circuit? There's no way in hell that Uli could ever duplicate those in his gargantuan factories - and I'm betting that he doesn't even try, probably just buys in large quantity, mass produced on machines by one of his OEM suppliers. Some things are simply not amenable to large scale mass production. I don't think anybody is hand winding the inductors anymore, that said who says a custom winding machine couldn't do it and just as if not more consistently today? Who says it could? Robots can do a lot but they can't do everything. There are things robots can do that are extremely difficult for humans and things humans co do that are impossible for robots.
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