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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2017 0:27:06 GMT -6
KT 1176 140 euros cheaper than the Warm in Europe! EQP about the same price(725 Euros).
Be interested in your thoughts on it too Jesse.
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Post by johneppstein on Jun 8, 2017 3:18:30 GMT -6
Switch mode power supply - EEeeewwwwww. Wonder what other corners they cut?
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Post by johneppstein on Jun 8, 2017 3:32:24 GMT -6
That would be behringer I mean music group and I am speaking on the transformers not the overall sound or quality.... I have never heard of Midas or KT.... Warm Audio have heard about it for years... Im not in the live scene yet though... I mean do you know another pultec clone design that featured these additional frequencies before the War Audio eqp-wa? Midas and KT must be around 50-years old... Warm Audio, barely 5? Plus, these takeovers happened ages ago. Anyway, Warm Audio doesn't have a monopoly on cheap Chinese labour, or UA/Pultec clones. There's been dozens of companies doing it before them, and dozens more still to come... (those extra filter points don't count as innovation = no patent) The original KT would never have used a switch mode power supply. And what the hell are "Midas transformers"? Midas never made transformers. Uli's just slapping the Midas name on stuff to impress people who don't know any better.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 8, 2017 6:12:34 GMT -6
Apparently so... Look out, Warm Audio. Yes for new customers looking for units and yes it is stiff competition for Warm, looking forward to jcoutu1 info / comparison ... If KT made live sound/ digital gear and it's top notch, how long have they been making analog hardware? I looked it up and couldn't find info. This is a guess, but I imagine Music Group/ Behringer to manufacture their own cases and components in their own facilities. Also their production runs is prob another reason why they are now cheaper at retail. I swear they were $599 for the kt76 and $699 for the KT pultec when they first released. I am seeing new units for $499 even on eBay lol. KT DN360 was the standard for Analog Graphic EQ since the 80's ! This Behringer / Music Group KT is KT in name only! Nobody from KT of old is left, KT is now Behringer premium vintage reissue channel.
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Post by michaelcleary on Jun 8, 2017 6:23:48 GMT -6
Switch mode power supply - EEeeewwwwww. Wonder what other corners they cut? Would you rather it be a wall wart?
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Post by drbill on Jun 8, 2017 11:41:40 GMT -6
Switch mode power supply - EEeeewwwwww. Wonder what other corners they cut? Would you rather it be a wall wart? John - If it's properly filtered and regulated, what's the problem with a switch mode supply? I want to know what these things sound like. Michael? Any other thoughts? Not sure how long you've had these.....
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Post by Guitar on Jun 8, 2017 12:15:00 GMT -6
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jun 8, 2017 13:19:48 GMT -6
Can someone cliff note me the difference between wal watt and switch mode vs internal power supply ? Which is best and why ? If implemented correctly can wal watt and switch mode perform as good as other power supplies ? How/ Why/ Or does this matter when they plug in the same socket ?Thanks in advance π€π€
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 8, 2017 13:30:06 GMT -6
Would you rather it be a wall wart? John - If it's properly filtered and regulated, what's the problem with a switch mode supply? I want to know what these things sound like. Β Michael? Β Any other thoughts? Β Not sure how long you've had these..... The simple answer is it depends, just like good old fashioned non- switchers. Guys like Dan Kennedy of Great River can design and give you a switcher that will knock your socks off, but it will cost you more. The biggest problem is we are all guilty of judging products by bullet points, manufacturers love it, but it leads to great gear on paper that sounds like crap. Let's judge it on what really counts!
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Post by Guitar on Jun 8, 2017 13:54:38 GMT -6
Can someone cliff note me the difference between wal watt and switch mode vs internal power supply ? Which is best and why ? If implemented correctly can wal watt and switch mode perform as good as other power supplies ? How/ Why/ Or does this matter when they plug in the same socket ?Thanks in advance π€π€ I would probably just start digging into Wikipedia articles and google searches. Or perhaps YouTube videos on the topic. You will get more information that way. A power supply can be switch mode, or linear/regulated, or even a battery. These are very different circuit topologies that use different methods of changing your standard 120 Volt AC (Alternating current) wall mains power into a DC (Direct current) voltage, or multiple voltage "rails", suitable for powering an audio circuit. Say 9V DC for a transistor-based guitar pedal, 48V DC to power your U87, or 130V DC for powering the preamp tube anode and polarizing the capsule in your (my) tube condenser microphone, plus a tube heater voltage, a pattern voltage, etc. Or 340 Volts for the power tubes in your Fender Champ, and so on. Any one of those can be internal, or external ("wall wart" "line lump" "power brick" etc.) Any of these can be designed properly for audio. Any of these can be poorly made and inadequate. Common problems with bad power include all sorts of hums, buzzes, and noises. You can even get past that and start talking about sound quality as related to the quality of power feeding your circuit. For example my Emotiva XPA-200 has a much lower noise floor "hiss" than the Technics stereo receiver in the next room over. I hated the wall wart that came with the Audient iD22, so I bought something I thought would be better, and...it was. Sometimes I like to run my phono preamp off of a battery pack. It has a lower noise floor than any of my second hand laptop power supplies that are also good in their own ways. Since the preamp can take a range of voltages, I found that I prefer the higher headroom of the 32 Volt supply. The batteries can sound slightly dark compared to the PSU, which can be good or bad. Sometimes you can improve the filtering scheme of an existing power supply. I've done mods like these on my Behringer Composer, and a few of my mics, and some of my noisier guitar effects. Lots of aging guitar amps, etc, will need electrolytic caps replaced, since they wear out over time. Something to look out for when shopping vintage gear. As a matter of fact, swapping various compatible rectifier tubes in a guitar or bass amp that can handle it, is a good practical example of power supply being obviously related to the resulting sound quality. A very obvious one would be the sound of a tube rectifier, vs a diode rectifier. I think a lot of the Mesa amps even have this built in as a switch on the back panel of the amp. Most well designed gear with a good pedigree doesn't need these sort of tweaks, but you'd be suprised what some companies will sell you.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jun 8, 2017 16:19:49 GMT -6
GuitarThank you bro. You definitely answered my questions.. I will do some searches on the other info π€π
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Post by BenjaminAshlin on Jun 8, 2017 17:38:36 GMT -6
Power supplies are an interesting subject that are prone to generalizations. Both switchmode and linear PSU can be very good although it does take a lot more technical knowledge to design a switchmode PSU for audio.
But we live in a fortunate time where there are a wide range of SMPS that cater to the audio industry.
There are times when a SMPS will sound different to a linear ps. Class AB tube amps for example often exhibit sag when a large transient goes through them. The voltage is pulled down and can change the dynamic feel of the device.
Good post btw monkeyxx.
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Post by BenjaminAshlin on Jun 8, 2017 17:46:09 GMT -6
Switch mode power supply - EEeeewwwwww. Wonder what other corners they cut? If the SMPS is a good "quality" ( Behringer) one it may not make any difference. The EQP is a class A amplifier which means it draws full current all of the time. Therefore there should not be any sag.
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Post by michaelcleary on Jun 8, 2017 17:55:47 GMT -6
Would you rather it be a wall wart? John - If it's properly filtered and regulated, what's the problem with a switch mode supply? I want to know what these things sound like. Michael? Any other thoughts? Not sure how long you've had these..... Only had it a little while, got it parked on the kick drum but initially did a quick vocal check, turning the knobs to make sure it does what I wanted it to. No issues at all but like I said it has only been used on kick which was where I previously had been using the A designs pem-eq500. So far it is a fantastic deal for the money, much like how the KT1176 turned out to be a winner.
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Post by hadaja on Jun 8, 2017 22:28:54 GMT -6
Can someone be the first person on the web to pop open there EQP-kt and take some pictures?
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Post by johneppstein on Jun 9, 2017 1:18:07 GMT -6
Switch mode power supply - EEeeewwwwww. Wonder what other corners they cut? Would you rather it be a wall wart? Yes, if it was a high quality linear wall wart. Vastly superior to having an RF spewing switching supply actually inside the shield provided by the chassis.
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Post by johneppstein on Jun 9, 2017 1:25:26 GMT -6
Would you rather it be a wall wart? John - If it's properly filtered and regulated, what's the problem with a switch mode supply? I want to know what these things sound like. Michael? Any other thoughts? Not sure how long you've had these..... Well, switch mode supplies operate using RF energy. Do you REALLY want a little radio station inside the chassis of your analog audio equipment? I don't. And do you really trust Uli "cheap knockoff" Behringer to pay for additional (i.e. "proper") filotering and regulation? And switch mode supplies have a way of developing problems that don't prevent them from supplying power but DO cause them to start broadcasting RF and cauising hard to trace down noise problems. I wonder how much to replace the switcher with a linear?
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Post by johneppstein on Jun 9, 2017 1:33:41 GMT -6
Can someone cliff note me the difference between wal watt and switch mode vs internal power supply ? Which is best and why ? If implemented correctly can wal watt and switch mode perform as good as other power supplies ? How/ Why/ Or does this matter when they plug in the same socket ?Thanks in advance π€π€ A "Wall Wart" isn't a type of supply, it's a packaging format. They come in both switch mode and linear flavors and a wide range of quality, although the most common ones (that give WWs a bad name) are cheap junk. However since ideally the best place for any power supply is OUTSIDE the audio chassis (so that the chassis provides shielding from any PS generated noise), the is no reason that a high quality WW (or more likely, a "line lump") could not do a superior job. However, since the vast majority are generally cheap junk they usually don't. One good thing about a WW or LL is that if it's crap it's REALLY EASY to replace it with something better - or even build your own.
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Post by michaelcleary on Jun 9, 2017 6:28:34 GMT -6
Would you rather it be a wall wart? Yes, if it was a high quality linear wall wart. Vastly superior to having an RF spewing switching supply actually inside the shield provided by the chassis.So if there is no noise happening and the unit sounds great I should be ok?
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Post by johneppstein on Jun 9, 2017 13:41:37 GMT -6
Yes, if it was a high quality linear wall wart. Vastly superior to having an RF spewing switching supply actually inside the shield provided by the chassis.So if there is no noise happening and the unit sounds great I should be ok? Yes, until the cheap switching supply develops a noise problem. It seems to be the most common failure mode for switchers. Happens all the time with computers, even those with "premium quality" gamer grade supplies. Usually with a switcher the common repair method is to replace the whole supply. With linears you fix the supply. Most switcher supplies seem to be modules produced by an OEM supplier, not designed and built by the company, except in some of the really expensive devices.
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Post by michaelcleary on Jun 9, 2017 13:50:26 GMT -6
So if there is no noise happening and the unit sounds great I should be ok? Yes, until the cheap switching supply develops a noise problem. It seems to be the most common failure mode for switchers. Happens all the time with computers, even those with "premium quality" gamer grade supplies. Usually with a switcher the common repair method is to replace the whole supply. With linears you fix the supply. Most switcher supplies seem to be modules produced by an OEM supplier, not designed and built by the company, except in some of the really expensive devices. Got it. Thanks for the info! mc
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Post by Guitar on Jun 9, 2017 14:06:23 GMT -6
Yes, until the cheap switching supply develops a noise problem. It seems to be the most common failure mode for switchers. Happens all the time with computers, even those with "premium quality" gamer grade supplies. Usually with a switcher the common repair method is to replace the whole supply. With linears you fix the supply. Most switcher supplies seem to be modules produced by an OEM supplier, not designed and built by the company, except in some of the really expensive devices. Got it. Thanks for the info! mc That was the worst thing, perhaps, about the Echo Audiofire interfaces. They used a cheap OEM switch mode power supply, but it was inside the chassis. So every time it starts acting up, or completely dies, you have to send it to California for them to put in a new crappy $25 OEM power card. It was a false impression of build quality. If they had gone with the customer-phobia-inducing external wart, you could have just binned it and grabbed a new one. I guess I'm not too surprised they didn't "make it" to 2017. Piece of... My Seventh Circle Audio switch mode internal power supply, on the other hand, I feel really confident about it and it has never proved any trouble. I think Tim Ryan at SCA is a solid nuts and bolts designer and really focuses on things like noise floor and build quality. He made a second version of it, but I'm not sure what changed. The Tascam UH-7000 also has a really good internal SMPS. Some guy on the purple forum, however, claims he measured a small amount of ultrasonic noise. One really weird thing that happened to me with the Audiofire 12 was gain reduction happening on a "silent" signal into the FMR RNC compressor, becuase the FMR gear operates at super high bandwidth. So there must have been some noise in that band from the Audiofire triggering the compressor. I had a similar problem with my Apollo 8 Duo triggering the DBX de-esser. I never had a chance to measure the line, but I have a suspicion something similar could be going on. When I put the de-esser on my Focusrite Clarett, it acted fine. I thought it was broken so I sent it in for a replacement, and it acted exactly the same. In retrospect, I should have probably just patched in a 20 kHz low pass filter just to see if I could prove a point. I don't have any proper test equipment right now.
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Post by EmRR on Jun 9, 2017 14:41:59 GMT -6
A bunch of us are using $15 switching supplies for phantom power with excellent results. I've had several in the field over 5 years with no issues. Hum components from the adjacent linear supplies do indeed show up on the AP, nothing at all registers from the switchers.
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Post by gar381 on Jun 10, 2017 21:30:56 GMT -6
KT DN360 was the standard for Analog Graphic EQ since the 80's ! This Behringer / Music Group KT is KT in name only! Nobody from KT of old is left, KT is now Behringer premium vintage reissue channel. As great as the DN360 was, the earlier KT DN27 and DN27A were even better with all LCR filters. But unfortunately took up twice the rack space of the DN360 and made SR monitor racks rather large. These early KT graphics may have been the best graphic EQs ever made! Behringer has a long long long long way to go to match early KT products. Gary
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Post by johneppstein on Jun 11, 2017 0:58:20 GMT -6
A bunch of us are using $15 switching supplies for phantom power with excellent results. I've had several in the field over 5 years with no issues. Hum components from the adjacent linear supplies do indeed show up on the AP, nothing at all registers from the switchers. Well, any noise from the phantom supply will be applied in common mode equally to pins 1&2 so it should cancel itself out unless one of the resistors that feed the phantom to the XLR is off tolerance.
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