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Post by mdmitch2 on Aug 14, 2015 14:05:34 GMT -6
The first thing I notice listening to Steven's 32 toft is the noise floor, a lot of it. It doesn't come from the modified master mix module, it is sourced noise from mostly the monitor input/pan pots. Toft elected to design in pan pot buffers with 14 db of gain on each 072 opamp. On the main mix path it is disconnected using the mix switch. On the monitor mute, it is muted before those chips so their hiss is always fed to the main mix path = lots of noise. The only fix is to cut up the pcb's to route the mute switch after the pan buffers or to remove all those monitor pan buffer chips, eliminating 1/2 of the inputs to the console. Neither are a good choice. Once years ago I modified an entire 16 input console, so much work I never did another. But it was very quiet. Jim, I found this post from you on another site from a few years ago: "....... The noise floor also drops but is still dependent on the monitor sends. To fix that, replace IC10 on the input channels with a National LME49720NA opamp. Add a couple of 22 pf caps across the feedback resistors and a pair of .1 uf mono ceramic caps from pin's 4 and 8 to ground. That will lower the console noise several db's. Replace the rest of the 072 opamps and the total console noise is very low." Is the above a viable solution for cleaning up the noise caused by the pan pot buffer? |
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Post by BradM on Aug 15, 2015 10:23:33 GMT -6
Hi, I did indeed purchase a 24 channel Toft when I realized a bigger console was required...after using a JW modified Delta for a little bit. Firstly, Jim's Delta sounded incredible, as in off the charts amazing. It was wide and deep, and quiet. Sound was effortless through that thing. I jumped on the Toft bandwagon because feature wise it had what I was looking for. And it looked great. The EQ had a really cool vibe to it and was great for the rock stuff I was mostly doing. However, apart from that, the console really let me down sonically. Within a week I knew I had taken a major step backwards sonically from the Delta. The sound was constricted and flat, the image narrow, it was noisy, and there was a ton of crosstalk between things like 2 track returns and line inputs. I should not hear the Studer return in the monitors when I have the 2 Trk button disengaged. I was really let down. I had been following Jim's thread on GS about all the mods he had been doing, and was seriously considering implementing them. That's when drbill jumped in and said he had a better console for me...the D&R Vision. Bill and I talked it over for a week figuring out if the Vision would meet my requirements. It did, so I lined up a buyer for the Toft immediately and bought the Vision...making money in the process! And I got more channels. The D&R delivered big time and I felt like I had righted a major wrong in my studio. Since it was fully modular I was able to easily modify it (JW-style) over time, and it gave me back the sound I had fallen in love with when I had the Delta. I ultimately put in some CAPI ACA boards in the mix bus which really gave it some gusto. All of that work and discussion eventually gave birth to the Silver Bullet...in a roundabout way. So my final thought on the matter is that the Toft is a toy in comparison to the D&R which is a serious sonic tool. Brad |
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Post by mdmitch2 on Aug 16, 2015 22:43:41 GMT -6
Hi, I did indeed purchase a 24 channel Toft when I realized a bigger console was required... So my final thought on the matter is that the Toft is a toy in comparison to the D&R which is a serious sonic tool. Brad Appreciate the feedback! Used neotek or D&R is looking better and better.... |
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Post by Vincent R. on Apr 14, 2017 20:29:06 GMT -6
Well, this whole thread has made me sad. I had been looking at the toft and felt it was in a price range I would be comfortable saving toward and investing in for a console for some vibe and warmth, and as a way of stepping OTB.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 14, 2017 21:10:46 GMT -6
It's really pretty, which is deceptive. It's noisy and the EQ ain't great.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Apr 14, 2017 21:17:29 GMT -6
Well, this whole thread has made me sad. I had been looking at the toft and felt it was in a price range I would be comfortable saving toward and investing in for a console for some vibe and warmth, and as a way of stepping OTB. Spend some time doing your homework, figure out what you really want and need while putting cash. If your patient a great console can be found ! |
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Post by johneppstein on Apr 14, 2017 22:39:17 GMT -6
Toft is a great set of features but you can instantly tell it is built to a price point, much better off finding something really nice on the used market! There isn't really nice/working used for sub $3k. Really I just need an API to fall into my lap.  You and me both. |
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Post by subspace on Apr 15, 2017 8:24:44 GMT -6
Well, this whole thread has made me sad. I had been looking at the toft and felt it was in a price range I would be comfortable saving toward and investing in for a console for some vibe and warmth, and as a way of stepping OTB. You can buy Midas Siena and Verona 32/40/48 input boards all day long for $1,800 - $2,200. Nobody wants analog boards for live sound anymore, so they have to be dumped for less than the price point of new, cheaper digital offerings. I would take them over a Toft or MANY of the 20+ year old deteriorating recording desks unless you're a maintenance wiz (and have the down time to spare.) |
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Post by swurveman on Apr 15, 2017 9:59:02 GMT -6
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Post by mdmitch2 on Apr 15, 2017 10:06:40 GMT -6
I ended up buying a 1987 Neotek Elite, and I'm really happy that I did. I might have even saved some money vs the toft since it has an integrated patch bay, and I didn't need to build/buy a new desk for it.
That being said, even though it had been recapped (electrolytics) and was in excellent physical condition, a lot of little things started going wrong in the first couple months of use (I don't think it had been used in years). I completely rebuilt one of the power supplies, and partially rebuilt the other. I recapped the ceramics on the master section, and replaced a couple dozen ICs, transistors, etc. Re soldered pots, cleaned switches....
Since then it's been running great and sounds great.... but yeah, forget an old analog console unless you have the time and tools to fix it (or just a ton of money to fly someone in to work on it).
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Post by swurveman on Apr 15, 2017 11:02:30 GMT -6
I ended up buying a 1987 Neotek Elite, and I'm really happy that I did. I might have even saved some money vs the toft since it has an integrated patch bay, and I didn't need to build/buy a new desk for it. That being said, even though it had been recapped (electrolytics) and was in excellent physical condition, a lot of little things started going wrong in the first couple months of use (I don't think it had been used in years). I completely rebuilt one of the power supplies, and partially rebuilt the other. I recapped the ceramics on the master section, and replaced a couple dozen ICs, transistors, etc. Re soldered pots, cleaned switches.... Since then it's been running great and sounds great.... but yeah, forget an old analog console unless you have the time and tools to fix it (or just a ton of money to fly someone in to work on it). This is why I gravitate towards buying something new like the Toft. People rag on the console, but then you here some of the work done with it and it sounds pretty good. The appeal for me is being able to have things like my Bricasti as a cue send for singers, being able to mix while recording using the EQ's and inserts and having all my hardware on specific inserts and groups so that I'm totally analog for my analog hardware . These mixes sound good: www.fittingroomstudio.com/ |
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Post by drbill on Apr 15, 2017 13:14:45 GMT -6
Hi, I did indeed purchase a 24 channel Toft when I realized a bigger console was required...after using a JW modified Delta for a little bit. Firstly, Jim's Delta sounded incredible, as in off the charts amazing. It was wide and deep, and quiet. Sound was effortless through that thing. I jumped on the Toft bandwagon because feature wise it had what I was looking for. And it looked great. The EQ had a really cool vibe to it and was great for the rock stuff I was mostly doing. However, apart from that, the console really let me down sonically. Within a week I knew I had taken a major step backwards sonically from the Delta. The sound was constricted and flat, the image narrow, it was noisy, and there was a ton of crosstalk between things like 2 track returns and line inputs. I should not hear the Studer return in the monitors when I have the 2 Trk button disengaged. I was really let down. I had been following Jim's thread on GS about all the mods he had been doing, and was seriously considering implementing them. That's when drbill jumped in and said he had a better console for me...the D&R Vision. Bill and I talked it over for a week figuring out if the Vision would meet my requirements. It did, so I lined up a buyer for the Toft immediately and bought the Vision...making money in the process! And I got more channels. The D&R delivered big time and I felt like I had righted a major wrong in my studio. Since it was fully modular I was able to easily modify it (JW-style) over time, and it gave me back the sound I had fallen in love with when I had the Delta. I ultimately put in some CAPI ACA boards in the mix bus which really gave it some gusto. All of that work and discussion eventually gave birth to the Silver Bullet...in a roundabout way. So my final thought on the matter is that the Toft is a toy in comparison to the D&R which is a serious sonic tool. Brad If anyone is interested in checking out what Brad experienced when switching over to a D&R, I'm going to put my D&R OrionX up FS soon. 120 inputs, automated, 48 in-line, 24 stereo returns, TT/Elco bays, etc. etc.. Extreeeeeemly reliable. I know,,,,I've been threatening to do this for a long time, but I need to make some room.... Surprisingly affordable, but not *cheap*. |
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Post by aamicrophones on Apr 15, 2017 14:41:41 GMT -6
If you want some vibe there are some old Audio Arts and a Quantum Audio Labs in EBay , I would grab those before a Toft. Hi Guys, I know Malcolm really well. He was not happy with the TOFT ATB build. He no longer works or consults for PMI. He told me at a trade show in Germany two years ago where he was showing his OCEAN AUDIO CONSOLE (now ark.com) that he was in litigation with PMI. They kept wanting him to dumbdown the build for more profit. Malcolm finally went in and told them, " I am Malcolm F*cking Toft, I recorded the Beatles (Hey Jude), David Bowies Space Oddity and James Taylors first album, I built and designed the Trident A range and Series 80b consoles and I won't dumb my designs down any further". Malcolm worked with the late Barry Potter of Trident on the EQ/pre design. Malcolm was forced to design transformerless preamps for the ATB, unbalanced inserts and build every 8 channels on one motherboard. The chassis were flimsier than he initially intended. Mine was a earlier version and maybe they improved that in later versions but Malcolm was definitely not happy with the design as he felt that his name had been "whored" out. Now, I had a ATB 16 that I traded for four tube microphones and I had it for about 6 months till I found my Sony MXP3036. I bought the used MXP3036 for the same price as a new ATB 24. The Sony has 36 channels which give you 72 returns via the inline monitoring section. Everything in the MXP3036 is balanced including the bussing and it has 36 groups. The Sony has several type of EQ and preamps that fit into the channel modules. The EQ on the left is had completely variable HF/LF shelving that can be switched to bell curve all 4 band have completely variable "Q" but I find this EQ not a "musical" of the EQ and lacking headroom. Tom told me he was forced to build the completely state variable EQ by Sony and it was not his favourite. On the right is the EQ which is identical to the Series 80b but with 4 bands of Hi/Lo "Q" bell curve and the HF and LF section can be switched to variable shelving. The "sideways" graphic type EQ that Tom designed for Norbert Putnam is my favourite. Attachment DeletedThe Sony came standard with a transformerless preamps, mine also has 8-transformer coupled preamps with Jensen transformers. API, John Hardy, JLM Audio and another Company whose name I have forgotten also made a preamp that slotted into the MXP3036 modules. My good friend Tom Graefe who designed the MXP3036 still checks into the MXP3036 user Forum and will address service issues. Tom Graefe also worked on the design of the SSL Oxford and the Wunder Audio preamp. The Sony is a poor man's SSL being nearly 20db quieter than a Neve V88. Its one of the quietest if not the quietest analogue console I have ever worked on. Tom explained to me one day how they accomplised that. The achilles heel to the Sony was the automation. However, you can disconnect the automation by not powering up the supply and tying the automation gnd to the audio gnd. I have a IZ Technologies RADAR Studio so I can automate in the RADAR. The only other thing you loose by disconnecting the automation is being able to assign a moving fader to on or more groups. You still have solo, PFL, Mutes and the P&G VCA faders all work. Some versions of the MXP3036 came with no automation and analogue faders. There is a switch on each channel that swaps the VCA fader for an analogue rotary pot. So, you can set all the rotary pots to unity and mix your level from the DAW. However, when I switch between the VCA fader and the analogue pot I can't hear any difference? Maybe if I switched 24 tracks at once??? Even after disabling the automation the groups will still work for assigning. I don't use the groups much as you can patch directly out of the any of the preamps or out of the EQ direct to the RADAR's input. It has one of the most comprehensive patchbays I have every seen. reverb.com/ca/item/2206516-sony-mxp-3036-recording-console If you buy a used MXP3036 I recommend your replace all the filter caps in the regulation circuit as the power supply gets quite warm and make sure the Cinch Jones connector at the back of the power supply can't work loose. Tom didn't design this it was shopped out.  I never used the TOFT ATB mic preamps and just came back into the line inputs from the converter outputs of my RADAR 24. The EQ did sound exactly like the original Series 80b to my old ears but as Dan Deurloo stated there was more crosstalk between channels than I remember in the Series 80b. There was about 3db less headroom and the ATB inserts would have trouble driving a 1176D with its 600 ohm input xfmr. The one I bought has 8 pan pots that didn't work. Someone had dropped the console on the pan pots or more likely dropped a piece of gear onto the panpots and the panpots connections broke away from where they are soldered on the circuit board. There was not enough force from the drop to show any physical damage but 8 pots in a row had sheared away. Now, thanks to Malcolm design the channel still worked but they would not pan. Because the broken pan pots were located between two of the 8 channel "buckets". It took me over 1/2 a day to repair it. I could have replaced 8 wire linked pan pots in a Series 80b in about 2 hours or less. I also had to clean every pushbutton switch and pot in the ATB. I have known Malcolm since 1979 when I bought a Series 80b directly from Trident and he customized it for us. Malcolm called me last April after his court battle ended with PMI. He settled the litigation but could not build any gear under his name or Ocean Audio which he had to shut down. However, he could consult and we got together an designed the AA MT8016 based on the Series 80b preamps and everything we had learned since 1979. Malcolm was able to source the original input transformer and have them built into circuit board mountable metal mu cases. OEP also winds transforrmers for the Neve V88. Malcolm was a lot happier that we didn't have to compromise on the build, the specs and sound is a good as the original preamp if not better. We were actually able to use IC's that have 3 times the slew rate and 1/5 the output impedance of the original build. These I found thru Tom Graefe who recommend them for replacing IC's in the Sony MXP3036.  Attachment DeletedMalcolm is now consulting and designing for www.arkconsole.com/ I believe. You can buy these "state of the art" consoles in 8 channel side cars. These console will also fit 500 series modules. Now, remarkably for the money the ATB functioned quite well in the ergonomic sense, the signal flow was really good and the gain staging was really good but it didn't match up to the build quality, headroom and sound of the Series 80b or our MT8016 preamp. The ATB had unbalanced bussing and the way its configured, the more channels you have so the more noise you will have. The Sony has balanced buss mixing like the Neve V88 and the SSL consoles. Like any analogue console you need to be a bit of a tech to own one or know a good tech. I have been servicing consoles since the early 70's but the ATB was not fun to work on compared to a Neve, API, Trident 80b or even an older API. However, its a lot easier to move but my Behringer UFX1604 is quieter. When I take my RADAR out on a live session, I take the Behringer to monitor the tracks. The headphone send on the UFX1604 also seemed superior to the ATB16 which I took out as a monitor console on a couple of occasions. However, I use the MXP3036 for the mix. The Sony MXP3036 is 7' 3" long and even with the Meter bridge removed, the metal legs and all the channels removed it takes 4 football player or 6 musician to move it. Cheers, Dave Thomas aamicrophones.com |
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Post by swurveman on Apr 16, 2017 7:08:56 GMT -6
According to the Ocean Audio website, he's retired. Alto Music was selling pre owned Ocean Audio 916 consolesDon't know what happened there, but Toft's name is on the PMI console, not on anything else. |
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Post by jimwilliams on Apr 16, 2017 10:46:37 GMT -6
FWIW, the Toft measured .4% THD at +27 dbu. Stereo crosstalk was -48 db at 10k hz, the worst I ever measured at that frequency. The noise floor was about the same as analog tape sans noise reduction.
The 072 opamps used will not drive a 600 ohm load, it's limited to a 2k ohm load or THD goes way up and levels drop.
It can be fixed. Do that and THD drops to .003% at +27 dbu and stereo crosstalk reduces to -74 db at 10k hz.
That Sony 3036 is also a mess, all of the mic preamps, sum stages and balanced output modules will fail eventually. There are no replacements from Sony. Sony is out of pro audio. |
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Post by ChaseUTB on Apr 16, 2017 12:32:45 GMT -6
So who makes the Sony c800g microphone? Or all the " new " ones backstock from previous manufacturing runs?
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Apr 16, 2017 13:42:51 GMT -6
So who makes the Sony c800g microphone? Or all the " new " ones backstock from previous manufacturing runs? Sony, they have a very veryscitzo history of supporting pro audio. One day they are all in then they are all out. Right now they are all out! I'm a huge fan of Sony Condensers own half a dozen, but you have to know their is no support from Sony except for wireless and ECM Lavs. Those opamps are the Achilles heal of the Sony consoles, only good news is there are a ton of Sony boards with those opamps from TV land but at some point unless someone reverse engineers them the world is screwed. |
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Post by aamicrophones on Apr 16, 2017 15:08:59 GMT -6
FWIW, the Toft measured .4% THD at +27 dbu. Stereo crosstalk was -48 db at 10k hz, the worst I ever measured at that frequency. The noise floor was about the same as analog tape sans noise reduction.
The 072 opamps used will not drive a 600 ohm load, it's limited to a 2k ohm load or THD goes way up and levels drop.
It can be fixed. Do that and THD drops to .003% at +27 dbu and stereo crosstalk reduces to -74 db at 10k hz.
That Sony 3036 is also a mess, all of the mic preamps, sum stages and balanced output modules will fail eventually. There are no replacements from Sony. Sony is out of pro audio. Hi Jim, Malcolm was very disheartened that he was "contracted" to produce something that ended up with those spec's. It was not what he attended to produce and put his name on. He told me in New York about 5 years ago, stay in the garage and don't get involved with big distributors!!! Malcolm told me it was the worse decision of his life. Yes, the TLO72 will not drive a 600 ohm load and that's why in the Series 80b the TLO71 IC's were buffered on the output with a pair of transistors to lower the output impedance down to around 50 ohms. We use OP275 IC's which will drive 600 ohm and have nearly 3 times the slew rate in our MT8016. The TLO72 cost 23 cents in lots of 500 and the OP275 cost $1 in lots of 500. You can still get replacement hybrid OP amps from Studio Electronics in LA for the MXP3036. I have lots of replacements for my console but they do not fail very often in my experience. These hybrid (differential) op amps are just 5532 IC's configured as a hybrid differential Op Amp. The reason the MXP3036 is so quiet is mostly a result of these balanced differential OP Amp feeding the bussing. Even the solo buss and the aux busses are all balanced. Only the Sony transformerless preamps used these differential Op amp and I have about 40 of the preamp modules and only found one that has failed. The Sony Jensen transformer coupled preamps used a 5532 in a socket and no differential Op amps. Tom Graefe the designer sent me the schematic these differential Op amps, so that if the supply of replacements dries up we can build some up. There is a MXP3036 owner's forum and Tom check's in all the time with technical help and all the schematics are posted on the Forum. You have to own a Sony MXP3036 to become a Forum member. So, most likely what will happen is that if we run out of replacement differential op amps the Forum members will get together and have someone build a large run of custom replacement op amps. There were 300 MXP3036 consoles built. We recently got together and made a bulk buy of LED lamps for the channel on/off switches to replace the incandescents. Cheers, Dave  |
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Post by wiz on Apr 16, 2017 15:44:11 GMT -6
FWIW, the Toft measured .4% THD at +27 dbu. Stereo crosstalk was -48 db at 10k hz, the worst I ever measured at that frequency. The noise floor was about the same as analog tape sans noise reduction.
The 072 opamps used will not drive a 600 ohm load, it's limited to a 2k ohm load or THD goes way up and levels drop.
It can be fixed. Do that and THD drops to .003% at +27 dbu and stereo crosstalk reduces to -74 db at 10k hz.
That Sony 3036 is also a mess, all of the mic preamps, sum stages and balanced output modules will fail eventually. There are no replacements from Sony. Sony is out of pro audio. Hi Jim, Malcolm was very disheartened that he was "contracted" to produce something that ended up with those spec's. It was not what he attended to produce and put his name on. He told me in New York about 5 years ago, stay in the garage and don't get involved with big distributors!!! Malcolm told me it was the worse decision of his life. Yes, the TLO72 will not drive a 600 ohm load and that's why in the Series 80b the TLO71 IC's were buffered on the output with a pair of transistors to lower the output impedance down to around 50 ohms. We use OP275 IC's which will drive 600 ohm and have nearly 3 times the slew rate in our MT8016. The TLO72 cost 23 cents in lots of 500 and the OP275 cost $1 in lots of 500. You can still get replacement hybrid OP amps from Studio Electronics in LA for the MXP3036. I have lots of replacements for my console but they do not fail very often in my experience. These hybrid (differential) op amps are just 5532 IC's configured as a hybrid differential Op Amp. The reason the MXP3036 is so quiet is mostly a result of these balanced differential OP Amp feeding the bussing. Even the solo buss and the aux busses are all balanced. Only the Sony transformerless preamps used these differential Op amp and I have about 40 of the preamp modules and only found one that has failed. The Sony Jensen transformer coupled preamps used a 5532 in a socket and no differential Op amps. Tom Graefe the designer sent me the schematic these differential Op amps, so that if the supply of replacements dries up we can build some up. There is a MXP3036 owner's forum and Tom check's in all the time with technical help and all the schematics are posted on the Forum. You have to own a Sony MXP3036 to become a Forum member. So, most likely what will happen is that if we run out of replacement differential op amps the Forum members will get together and have someone build a large run of custom replacement op amps. There were 300 MXP3036 consoles built. We recently got together and made a bulk buy of LED lamps for the channel on/off switches to replace the incandescents. Cheers, Dave I love that the owners are banding together to do this stuff.... cheers Wiz |
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Post by Vincent R. on Apr 16, 2017 20:03:03 GMT -6
Well aamicrophones, I guess I'll need to wait for you guys to design and release a decent, sub 10k console. I can't promise I'll be first in line to buy it, but you can bet it will be on my list once I can put the money together.  |
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Post by rowmat on Apr 16, 2017 20:22:29 GMT -6
I ended up buying a 1987 Neotek Elite, and I'm really happy that I did. I might have even saved some money vs the toft since it has an integrated patch bay, and I didn't need to build/buy a new desk for it. That being said, even though it had been recapped (electrolytics) and was in excellent physical condition, a lot of little things started going wrong in the first couple months of use (I don't think it had been used in years). I completely rebuilt one of the power supplies, and partially rebuilt the other. I recapped the ceramics on the master section, and replaced a couple dozen ICs, transistors, etc. Re soldered pots, cleaned switches.... Since then it's been running great and sounds great.... but yeah, forget an old analog console unless you have the time and tools to fix it (or just a ton of money to fly someone in to work on it). How bad were the switches in your Elite? As in crunchy only when operated or not passing signal etc? How did you clean them and did they come good after a clean or eventually become temperamental again. |
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Post by mdmitch2 on Apr 16, 2017 20:50:13 GMT -6
I ended up buying a 1987 Neotek Elite, and I'm really happy that I did. I might have even saved some money vs the toft since it has an integrated patch bay, and I didn't need to build/buy a new desk for it. That being said, even though it had been recapped (electrolytics) and was in excellent physical condition, a lot of little things started going wrong in the first couple months of use (I don't think it had been used in years). I completely rebuilt one of the power supplies, and partially rebuilt the other. I recapped the ceramics on the master section, and replaced a couple dozen ICs, transistors, etc. Re soldered pots, cleaned switches.... Since then it's been running great and sounds great.... but yeah, forget an old analog console unless you have the time and tools to fix it (or just a ton of money to fly someone in to work on it). How bad were the switches in your Elite? As in crunchy only when operated or not passing signal etc? How did you clean them and did they come good after a clean or eventually become temperamental again. I was actually referring mostly to cleaning the mute buttons, not the latching switches. When I got the console, everything worked... it had been recapped, and there were zero obvious issues other than scratchy EQ pots, and the main volume pot had the zipper sound when turning it. However, once I had used it for 2-3 months, things started going wrong, mainly with the power supplies. So no issues with the switches at all --- but mine does have the newer switches with light blue body and brown top. I think the original black switches (I can't remember the manufacturers) were extremely faulty. My friend has a very early Elite, maybe 1985? And most of the black switches were replaced by the previous owner. For the EQ pots, I bought some of the teflon cleaner that Ike Zimbel resells, and that seemed to work pretty well. I also bought a rebuilt monitor volume controller from him, and that fixed the zipper sound. |
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Post by mdmitch2 on Apr 16, 2017 20:54:19 GMT -6
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Post by guitfiddler on Apr 16, 2017 21:10:29 GMT -6
I haven't read this whole thread yet, but from what I digested from just one page makes me crazy! I have been in search of a good sounding analog board. Bill's D&R is, I'm sure out of my price range, however Jim Williams Delta or insert other older sound craft console that is modded is what I have been looking at. I would like to be able to use some of Capi's designs for upgrading my console. Not sure what console that will be. I am eyeing some cheaper SSL desks. The cheap X Desk, it looks like it's something I would be able to use without sacrificing my outboard quality, but with only one stereo FX send and return, not sure. I want at least 6 auxes with one stereo. It is a hard find, but I just want that big and wide out of the box sound. I am getting a huge sound now in the box, but I know what I want sonically, just need to find it.
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Post by mdmitch2 on Apr 17, 2017 9:59:09 GMT -6
I haven't read this whole thread yet, but from what I digested from just one page makes me crazy! I have been in search of a good sounding analog board. Bill's D&R is, I'm sure out of my price range, however Jim Williams Delta or insert other older sound craft console that is modded is what I have been looking at. I would like to be able to use some of Capi's designs for upgrading my console. Not sure what console that will be. I am eyeing some cheaper SSL desks. The cheap X Desk, it looks like it's something I would be able to use without sacrificing my outboard quality, but with only one stereo FX send and return, not sure. I want at least 6 auxes with one stereo. It is a hard find, but I just want that big and wide out of the box sound. I am getting a huge sound now in the box, but I know what I want sonically, just need to find it. I tend think that people buy SSL consoles more for the features than the sound... so once you strip away the features (X-Desk, XL Desk), I don't really see the point anymore. You're just paying a huge premium for the name at that point. For the price of the X Desk, you could get a Focusrite 2802, which I think would provide a lot more value for the money. Or maybe for your needs the best bet would be getting a used Toft 16 channel for $3k and getting Jim Williams to modify it. Or the Delta as you said. |
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