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Post by sirthought on Feb 16, 2022 5:08:41 GMT -6
It could be that one or more of the plugs you're using are simply inefficient, no point in speculating though you should ideally test all of this out.. I bet the UA crowd are looking at this thinking, yeah Shadow that's why I still use DSP.. ...yep
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 16, 2022 5:43:48 GMT -6
dan. There was a clean used Aurora n 16 on gs recently .
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Post by svart on Feb 16, 2022 9:50:01 GMT -6
If there's anything I have to offer this group or any other audio engineer out there it's a truthful look at my mistakes. I hope that folks can learn from them as I have learned from them. Sometimes it's better to learn from mistakes of others than to be taught someone's idea of what is correct. I don't know your story, but I'd add that sometimes people have to have their own journeys, regardless of the various points in front of them. Not discounting your opinion at all, just adding another. I completely understand. I was/am one of those folks too. I shrugged off a lot of good advice over the years for just about every facet of my life. I had some hard times because of it, but I know it was my own bullheadedness that brought it about too. As for audio, I also shrugged off a lot of good advice in favor of bumbling through things on my own. It really wasted a lot of years. I could write a book about what not to do!
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Post by svart on Feb 16, 2022 9:58:22 GMT -6
Is there an easy way to see whether something using anticipative processing? I run Reaper on Win 10 with MOTU USB and I never get stuttering. Preferences, Buffer. Reaper defaults to 200ms of anticipative processing. It lags plug-in VU meter ballistics somewhat but works really well with a ton of interfaces. If you crank it, plug-in controls get really laggy but it can turn even a few years old laptop into a mixing beast. I checked this out last night. I pulled up my most complex mix to test it out. 50+ tracks (not the most I've done, but these have a LOT of emulators and high DPC plugs) which have 5 amp/cab sims, 8 instances of Soothe/Soothe2, 4 reverbs and delays. Melodyne on 2 mono tracks and 2 stereo tracks. Crave EQ on dozens of tracks. Arouser on 6 or so. SSL native plugs on about 10 tracks. Reaper says I have 6 tracks with DPC >8000. When running it uses 65% CPU and 20GB of RAM. 8 Core/8 thread CPU, all cores fairly equal in utilization. I'm running 256 sample buffer which gets me around 5ms latency. I turned off Anticipative Effects and I noticed zero difference in performance. I figured that the CPU might shoot up but it was identical. No glitches or anything.
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Post by svart on Feb 16, 2022 10:01:41 GMT -6
Okay so two of my perfomance cores are getting 60-70% but sometimes two of the other cores get >90% thus crashing it. There needs to be way to spread the load around ugh. Well, on the positive side at least you know it isn't your interfaces. Apparently from a quick search Reaper has a CPU meter tool, use it. You need to see how the DAW is threading and disable / enable plugs to see their impact upon your system. Also I spotted a thread that mentioned Reaper wasn't using all cores when doing "live FX" or something. "In Preferences->Audio->Buffering, tick the "Allow live FX multiprocessing on" and choose how many cores you want." Not sure if you're using VSTi's but it's worth going through the DAW's settings and messing about anyway. In Logic there's distribution settings for multi-threading, whilst automatic seems to work the best at least I know that it works the best. It could be that one or more of the plugs you're using are simply inefficient, no point in speculating though you should ideally test all of this out.. I bet the UA crowd are looking at this thinking, yeah Shadow that's why I still use DSP.. Yes, Reaper has Performance Meter and you can define how it should use the CPU cores. I've tried both defining the CPU and allowing automatic and I could never really tell much difference. Then again, I've never had an issue with single-threaded plugs hogging one of the cores either. It's probably a specific plug causing the issues like you said.
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Post by schmalzy on Feb 16, 2022 10:42:56 GMT -6
Preferences, Buffer. Reaper defaults to 200ms of anticipative processing. It lags plug-in VU meter ballistics somewhat but works really well with a ton of interfaces. If you crank it, plug-in controls get really laggy but it can turn even a few years old laptop into a mixing beast. I checked this out last night. I pulled up my most complex mix to test it out. 50+ tracks (not the most I've done, but these have a LOT of emulators and high DPC plugs) which have 5 amp/cab sims, 8 instances of Soothe/Soothe2, 4 reverbs and delays. Melodyne on 2 mono tracks and 2 stereo tracks. Crave EQ on dozens of tracks. Arouser on 6 or so. SSL native plugs on about 10 tracks. Reaper says I have 6 tracks with DPC >8000. When running it uses 65% CPU and 20GB of RAM. 8 Core/8 thread CPU, all cores fairly equal in utilization. I'm running 256 sample buffer which gets me around 5ms latency. I turned off Anticipative Effects and I noticed zero difference in performance. I figured that the CPU might shoot up but it was identical. No glitches or anything. To provide another anecdotal data point: I'm regularly around 80 tracks (which I break out to a lot of groups of stuff and lots of parallel stuff so I'm closer to 130 channels per song for my mix). Console1 on probably 40 channels. Soothe on a few channels. FabFilter MB, FabFilterDS, Fab Filter Pro L, and a bunch of Kush stuff (the highest processor usage plugins I use regularly - Soothe and the oversampling modes of FabFilter stuff are higher but less used) plus always a couple amp sims and some pitch manipulation stuff like Little Alter Boy and ReaPitch. Lately I've been running to an analog mixbus so I'm also sending out 3 channels (one's a side chain for the compressor) and input monitoring the two coming back in. 2015 iMac 2.8 GHz Intel i5 with 4 cores and 16 GB RAM. Buffer set to 1024 when I'm mixing. I'm around 80% CPU utilization total running 88.2kHz sessions. I've not looked into it deeper because I've not had to. Question for ya', @tomegatherion: what are you pulling your audio files off of? I'm using an SSD in a dock connected via USB3. If your software and your data are on the same hard drive you can get some REALLY weird behavior. Related, I had a hard drive that was acting up (fear not, the data's all safe). It completely beachballed Reaper and made it so nothing would work or play. Maybe investigate disconnecting anything extra you might have besides the interface and the one hard drive you need to work with (in addition to your computer's internal drive for software). I hope you can get this ironed out. Problems stemming from (nearly) invisible digitalia can be SUPER frustrating.
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Post by svart on Feb 16, 2022 11:50:09 GMT -6
I checked this out last night. I pulled up my most complex mix to test it out. 50+ tracks (not the most I've done, but these have a LOT of emulators and high DPC plugs) which have 5 amp/cab sims, 8 instances of Soothe/Soothe2, 4 reverbs and delays. Melodyne on 2 mono tracks and 2 stereo tracks. Crave EQ on dozens of tracks. Arouser on 6 or so. SSL native plugs on about 10 tracks. Reaper says I have 6 tracks with DPC >8000. When running it uses 65% CPU and 20GB of RAM. 8 Core/8 thread CPU, all cores fairly equal in utilization. I'm running 256 sample buffer which gets me around 5ms latency. I turned off Anticipative Effects and I noticed zero difference in performance. I figured that the CPU might shoot up but it was identical. No glitches or anything. To provide another anecdotal data point: I'm regularly around 80 tracks (which I break out to a lot of groups of stuff and lots of parallel stuff so I'm closer to 130 channels per song for my mix). Console1 on probably 40 channels. Soothe on a few channels. FabFilter MB, FabFilterDS, Fab Filter Pro L, and a bunch of Kush stuff (the highest processor usage plugins I use regularly - Soothe and the oversampling modes of FabFilter stuff are higher but less used) plus always a couple amp sims and some pitch manipulation stuff like Little Alter Boy and ReaPitch. Lately I've been running to an analog mixbus so I'm also sending out 3 channels (one's a side chain for the compressor) and input monitoring the two coming back in. 2015 iMac 2.8 GHz Intel i5 with 4 cores and 16 GB RAM. Buffer set to 1024 when I'm mixing. I'm around 80% CPU utilization total running 88.2kHz sessions. I've not looked into it deeper because I've not had to. Question for ya': what are you pulling your audio files off of? I'm using an SSD in a dock connected via USB3. If your software and your data are on the same hard drive you can get some REALLY weird behavior. Related, I had a hard drive that was acting up (fear not, the data's all safe). It completely beachballed Reaper and made it so nothing would work or play. Maybe investigate disconnecting anything extra you might have besides the interface and the one hard drive you need to work with (in addition to your computer's internal drive for software). I hope you can get this ironed out. Problems stemming from (nearly) invisible digitalia can be SUPER frustrating. Not sure which of us you're asking, but my OS drive is SSD. My data drive is WD Black spinny drive.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Feb 16, 2022 11:51:43 GMT -6
If your invested in the eco system I would probably just grab 2ch of better AD and DA.
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Post by schmalzy on Feb 16, 2022 12:31:06 GMT -6
Not sure which of us you're asking, but my OS drive is SSD. My data drive is WD Black spinny drive. Sorry. I was quoting you because my post was to further back up your claim of "it shouldn't be running that hard." I was asking the question of Dan. I'll go edit to tag him in that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2022 13:47:43 GMT -6
I checked this out last night. I pulled up my most complex mix to test it out. 50+ tracks (not the most I've done, but these have a LOT of emulators and high DPC plugs) which have 5 amp/cab sims, 8 instances of Soothe/Soothe2, 4 reverbs and delays. Melodyne on 2 mono tracks and 2 stereo tracks. Crave EQ on dozens of tracks. Arouser on 6 or so. SSL native plugs on about 10 tracks. Reaper says I have 6 tracks with DPC >8000. When running it uses 65% CPU and 20GB of RAM. 8 Core/8 thread CPU, all cores fairly equal in utilization. I'm running 256 sample buffer which gets me around 5ms latency. I turned off Anticipative Effects and I noticed zero difference in performance. I figured that the CPU might shoot up but it was identical. No glitches or anything. To provide another anecdotal data point: I'm regularly around 80 tracks (which I break out to a lot of groups of stuff and lots of parallel stuff so I'm closer to 130 channels per song for my mix). Console1 on probably 40 channels. Soothe on a few channels. FabFilter MB, FabFilterDS, Fab Filter Pro L, and a bunch of Kush stuff (the highest processor usage plugins I use regularly - Soothe and the oversampling modes of FabFilter stuff are higher but less used) plus always a couple amp sims and some pitch manipulation stuff like Little Alter Boy and ReaPitch. Lately I've been running to an analog mixbus so I'm also sending out 3 channels (one's a side chain for the compressor) and input monitoring the two coming back in. 2015 iMac 2.8 GHz Intel i5 with 4 cores and 16 GB RAM. Buffer set to 1024 when I'm mixing. I'm around 80% CPU utilization total running 88.2kHz sessions. I've not looked into it deeper because I've not had to. Question for ya', @tomegatherion: what are you pulling your audio files off of? I'm using an SSD in a dock connected via USB3. If your software and your data are on the same hard drive you can get some REALLY weird behavior. Related, I had a hard drive that was acting up (fear not, the data's all safe). It completely beachballed Reaper and made it so nothing would work or play. Maybe investigate disconnecting anything extra you might have besides the interface and the one hard drive you need to work with (in addition to your computer's internal drive for software). I hope you can get this ironed out. Problems stemming from (nearly) invisible digitalia can be SUPER frustrating. Windows and reaper are on a regular SSD. Audio pulls off an 7000 mbps m2 ssd. Every vocal track on this mix is getting Nova GE on insane+ as a de-esser, Deedger (love this), slick eq ge with saturation and colored outp stage on, Molot ge on insane, and fuse tcs-68 and it’s bussed to groups (tcs-68 x2 on each. One for the eq the other into the saturation because the eq comes post circuit/tape sat in the plug-in signal flow) and the busses are all sent to Colour Copy instances with hq on
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Post by schmalzy on Feb 17, 2022 0:26:08 GMT -6
To provide another anecdotal data point: I'm regularly around 80 tracks (which I break out to a lot of groups of stuff and lots of parallel stuff so I'm closer to 130 channels per song for my mix). Console1 on probably 40 channels. Soothe on a few channels. FabFilter MB, FabFilterDS, Fab Filter Pro L, and a bunch of Kush stuff (the highest processor usage plugins I use regularly - Soothe and the oversampling modes of FabFilter stuff are higher but less used) plus always a couple amp sims and some pitch manipulation stuff like Little Alter Boy and ReaPitch. Lately I've been running to an analog mixbus so I'm also sending out 3 channels (one's a side chain for the compressor) and input monitoring the two coming back in. 2015 iMac 2.8 GHz Intel i5 with 4 cores and 16 GB RAM. Buffer set to 1024 when I'm mixing. I'm around 80% CPU utilization total running 88.2kHz sessions. I've not looked into it deeper because I've not had to. Question for ya', @tomegatherion : what are you pulling your audio files off of? I'm using an SSD in a dock connected via USB3. If your software and your data are on the same hard drive you can get some REALLY weird behavior. Related, I had a hard drive that was acting up (fear not, the data's all safe). It completely beachballed Reaper and made it so nothing would work or play. Maybe investigate disconnecting anything extra you might have besides the interface and the one hard drive you need to work with (in addition to your computer's internal drive for software). I hope you can get this ironed out. Problems stemming from (nearly) invisible digitalia can be SUPER frustrating. Windows and reaper are on a regular SSD. Audio pulls off an 7000 mbps m2 ssd. Every vocal track on this mix is getting Nova GE on insane+ as a de-esser, Deedger (love this), slick eq ge with saturation and colored outp stage on, Molot ge on insane, and fuse tcs-68 and it’s bussed to groups (tcs-68 x2 on each. One for the eq the other into the saturation because the eq comes post circuit/tape sat in the plug-in signal flow) and the busses are all sent to Colour Copy instances with hq on Reading back these responses and exactly what you were saying ahead of time...I must have been combining two different threads in my broken little brain. I could have sworn you said you were having problems with your projects running smoothly. Which is not at all what you said. My brains must have been combining a few things. Sorry for any confusion on that... That said, I'm glad all your mix sessions run smooth!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2022 7:12:02 GMT -6
Windows and reaper are on a regular SSD. Audio pulls off an 7000 mbps m2 ssd. Every vocal track on this mix is getting Nova GE on insane+ as a de-esser, Deedger (love this), slick eq ge with saturation and colored outp stage on, Molot ge on insane, and fuse tcs-68 and it’s bussed to groups (tcs-68 x2 on each. One for the eq the other into the saturation because the eq comes post circuit/tape sat in the plug-in signal flow) and the busses are all sent to Colour Copy instances with hq on Reading back these responses and exactly what you were saying ahead of time...I must have been combining two different threads in my broken little brain. I could have sworn you said you were having problems with your projects running smoothly. Which is not at all what you said. My brains must have been combining a few things. Sorry for any confusion on that... That said, I'm glad all your mix sessions run smooth! My issues are with the apogee usb driver stuttering and the multi core cpu utilization in my projects. I’m not even sure a Lynx or RME unit would solve my problems but I emailed Sweetwater asking for a deal on a Hilo Thunderbolt 3 and Babyface Pro FS and instead I got shilled UAD
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2022 7:16:56 GMT -6
Reading back these responses and exactly what you were saying ahead of time...I must have been combining two different threads in my broken little brain. I could have sworn you said you were having problems with your projects running smoothly. Which is not at all what you said. My brains must have been combining a few things. Sorry for any confusion on that... That said, I'm glad all your mix sessions run smooth! My issues are with the apogee usb driver stuttering and the multi core cpu utilization in my projects. I’m not even sure a Lynx or RME unit would solve my problems but I emailed Sweetwater asking for a deal on a Hilo Thunderbolt 3 and Babyface Pro FS and instead I got shilled UAD lol I'm relatively sure it won't solve your problems. You might want to do some diagnostics before syphoning money away, I've had RME interfaces (9652 + UFX 2) and given the chance I can brick them just like the rest. Don't get me wrong on Windows there's nothing better in terms of stability and compatibility but that's not a cure all.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2022 7:19:35 GMT -6
My issues are with the apogee usb driver stuttering and the multi core cpu utilization in my projects. I’m not even sure a Lynx or RME unit would solve my problems but I emailed Sweetwater asking for a deal on a Hilo Thunderbolt 3 and Babyface Pro FS and instead I got shilled UAD lol I'm relatively sure it won't solve your problems. You might want to do some diagnostics before syphoning money away, I've had RME interfaces (9652 + UFX 2) and given the chance I can brick them just like the rest. Don't get me wrong on Windows there's nothing better in terms of stability and compatibility but that's not a cure all. I increase the aggressive of cpu utilization, which let me play back this project.
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Post by mjheck on Feb 17, 2022 8:52:00 GMT -6
If I recall correctly, as I was nearing the end of a set of mixes with a similar array of TDL plug ins, I did have to switch one instance per channel from "insane" to "precise" to be able to finish mixing.
When bouncing offline, I could then switch them back to insane beforehand.
Not a lot of similarity to offer system wise (M1 Mac mini, 16GB, working in Logic X latest version, tons of Nebula reverbs and pre-amp emulations). I also found I could either 1) change from Nebula reverbs to other reverbs oe 2) not doing any analog processing.
I would also occasionally run into this problem when a channel simply had too many things that upsampled in a row, or had long lookahead times - seven cores would be chilling at 15% and one core would be maxed out.
I hope it gets worked out for you. It is such a bummer when one of the points in the line starts acting up. As many variables as we contend with, sometimes I am amazed I can get anything to pass sound at all.
JMH
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