|
Post by ragan on Jan 23, 2022 11:14:13 GMT -6
I like an RE20. I also like DI. A combo I’ve had good luck with is DI for the body/size and an Oktava 219 for the midrange character.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Jan 23, 2022 11:28:32 GMT -6
You can't capture the low frequency wavefronts from a big speaker with a small diaphragm, I'm not so sure about that. One thjing that iS certain is that you can't use a small diaphragm close up, because on a cab with many small speakers they don't really couple and form the LF wave until you're at least a couple or so feet from the cab.
I've often used a RE20, an ND868 (old US made version) or a D12. Sometimes a 421.
|
|
|
Post by ragan on Jan 23, 2022 11:30:07 GMT -6
Wait didn’t we already have this discussion a couple years ago 😅??
|
|
|
Post by dok on Jan 23, 2022 12:18:56 GMT -6
You can't capture the low frequency wavefronts from a big speaker with a small diaphragm, I'm not so sure about that. One thjing that iS certain is that you can't use a small diaphragm close up, because on a cab with many small speakers they don't really couple and form the LF wave until you're at least a couple or so feet from the cab. If that was true wouldn't I have to be a couple of feet from my headphones in order to hear low frequencies?
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Jan 23, 2022 12:25:39 GMT -6
Glyn Johns uses a 414 and I do to. He’s been copying me all this time. If I use a second mic it’s usually an EV 666. The devil makes you do that.
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Jan 23, 2022 12:26:44 GMT -6
My go to condenser is FET47 which is my default kick and bass mic but that's pretty pricey. Agreed 100%. I have a pair of Neumann U47 FET reissues. One lives on outside kick, the other on a 1x15 bass cabinet. Nothing else quite like it. But, if it works on kick, it also works on a bass cabinet, and voice-over. Alternates to a U47FET for me are the EV 27, D12, and U87.
|
|
|
Post by gravesnumber9 on Jan 23, 2022 12:37:10 GMT -6
Wait didn’t we already have this discussion a couple years ago 😅?? If that was a criteria for threads we might as well shut the whole site down!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2022 14:15:15 GMT -6
My go to condenser is FET47 which is my default kick and bass mic but that's pretty pricey. Agreed 100%. I have a pair of Neumann U47 FET reissues. One lives on outside kick, the other on a 1x15 bass cabinet. Nothing else quite like it. But, if it works on kick, it also works on a bass cabinet, and voice-over. Alternates to a U47FET for me are the EV 27, D12, and U87. I might just get the HT U47 (heiserman cap) clone, I'm not super precious over bass mic's like I am with acoustic / vox mic's. The subtle difference probably won't matter with bass in a mix..
|
|
|
Post by schmalzy on Jan 23, 2022 15:18:36 GMT -6
Most recently I used an M88 or TGX50. I've done a lot of things over the years, but oddly I seem to gravitate to DI, even when I record both, the DID is the main sound and the mic is the secondary 'flavor enhancer.' This is my bass mix method, too. Much of my sound comes from the DI and the character comes from the amp. Clank? Grind? Thump? Vocal mids? Whatever? I'll get that stuff from the amp. A lot of times it's the player's setup. Other times it's reamped through my bass rig(s). THE MOST PICKY BASS PLAYERS I've had in the studio - they absolutely NEEDED to set up their amp with their particular cabinets, and the volume is exactly what they think is perfect, and their pedal board, and their perfectly-aged strings, and their preferred plucking method. And then in the mix the DI is 80% of the sound. Those players are always looking for what they perceive is their signature, so I use their amp setup to get that. The most picky person I've had in the studio, though, played one song so badly that it was unusable. We were tracking live and everyone else was CRUSHING the takes - absolutely ripping - but that guy couldn't do it. I didn't belabor it because we had two more songs to get through that day. A few days pass and I do a quick bounce of the rough mix followed by discussion with the band leader. We agreed I should replay the bass part myself (Countryman Type85 DI and SansAmp RBI). The feedback from the bass player on the mix was "it's the best my bass has ever sounded!"
|
|
|
Post by jaba on Jan 23, 2022 15:50:53 GMT -6
I often end up with the DI doing a lot of the work (the best bassists I've recorded usually just went with an API DI) but when amp tone is key I find it's very dependent - 57/421 for growl, sometimes a condenser but never been near a FET47 unfortunately.
One of the best amp tones I ever got was a B15 mic'd with an RE20.
|
|
|
Post by notneeson on Jan 23, 2022 16:37:09 GMT -6
I think this is where the bass into a Marshall thing is great: you get wide band sound from the DI and then the mids and drive are dealers choice depending on what works in context. Can also be a plug-in, if you don’t have the option, less fun but it works.
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 23, 2022 17:36:35 GMT -6
I'd look at the FET 47 clones. Stam SA 47 FET, or United Studio Technologies should do the trick under 1k.
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Jan 23, 2022 18:18:37 GMT -6
I'd look at the FET 47 clones. Stam SA 47 FET, or United Studio Technologies should do the trick under 1k. Our friend cdkelly has done a fantastic job with his 47f
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2022 0:10:04 GMT -6
Reason I was interested in the orange crush is the ability to blend the dry / wet signal when used with distortion. Usually I'd DI / split tracks / use a cab IR and distort the secondary bass channel, oldest trick in the metal handbook.
The DI would need heavily EQ'ing to reign it in anyway so this time around I'm looking to do things in reverse, mainly because I want a plugin free experience for the most part and also this is part of a larger effort to start interacting with real instruments again. In rock / metal you'd spend 90% of your time sorting through midi tracks or VST's, even if real drum kits were used most of it were sample replaced. Sometimes I'm not even sure why they bothered..
Anyway forgive the tangent, if I have to heavily EQ the DI then I can just do the same with the amp to make it "bloom" (in theory at least). I just need something that will pick up the lows and high's effectively enough to work with.
|
|
|
Post by bricejchandler on Jan 24, 2022 0:43:51 GMT -6
Reason I was interested in the orange crush is the ability to blend the dry / wet signal when used with distortion. Usually I'd DI / split tracks / use a cab IR and distort the secondary bass channel, oldest trick in the metal handbook. The DI would need heavily EQ'ing to reign it in anyway so this time around I'm looking to do things in reverse, mainly because I want a plugin free experience for the most part and also this is part of a larger effort to start interacting with real instruments again. In rock / metal you'd spend 90% of your time sorting through midi tracks or VST's, even if real drum kits were used most of it were sample replaced. Sometimes I'm not even sure why they bothered.. Anyway forgive the tangent, if I have to heavily EQ the DI then I can just do the same with the amp to make it "bloom" (in theory at least). I just need something that will pick up the lows and high's effectively enough to work with. Come mix time I tend to eq and compress the clean bass channel and the distorted channel differently. My clean channel is usually more compressed and does most of the work, especially for the low end. I then hipass and lopass the distorted channel and then boost some mids to help the bass cut through the guitars without sounding muddy. Then I'll buss both tracks to one and add one last compressor if needed to gel the sounds together. If I'm tracking a live band I often commit at the tracking stage because I know how the bass and the guitars will interact but I never would want to commit if I'm tracking everything separately. So many times, come mix time I've ended up reamping the bass to get a different distortion flavor track that matches better with the guitars. My usual setup is a Portaflex for classic tones and SVT when I want something more modern, and in parallel, for the flavor tracks I've used anything from Sansamp, Plexi, Twin with the spring cranked, whatever sounds cool. Anyway, it's all pretty standard stuff really but all that to say that a blend channel on an amp is cool for live work but I don't think it's the best option in the studio. At least I would find it really limiting.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2022 2:38:55 GMT -6
My usual setup is a Portaflex for classic tones and SVT when I want something more modern, and in parallel, for the flavor tracks I've used anything from Sansamp, Plexi, Twin with the spring cranked, whatever sounds cool. Anyway, it's all pretty standard stuff really but all that to say that a blend channel on an amp is cool for live work but I don't think it's the best option in the studio. At least I would find it really limiting. Limiting is the name of the game, I've had several studio's in various forms over the years with excess equipment or software that was either a waste of money or epically distracting. This whole new studio is based around a slimline hybrid version where everything's ready to go, I've spent 5 years choosing specific equipment to maximise efficiency whilst taking a small slice of my LFAC / racks of equipment days. In a commercial studio I get it, some demanded a 5150 or Mesa stack, U87 etc. but for a solo artist setup it's not necessary IME. Years back I had several amps to choose from (even if I hardly ever had time to record myself) but I'd always end up using my Engl. For me it sounded the best irrelevant of what I was trying to achieve and different tonality could be obtained by messing around with it. So my new ethos is buy right, buy once and make it work. Anyway if for some reason I can't get specific results I have the Ampeg SVT plugs, several direct DI's (Shelford, 6176, SSL) and a plethora of other options I'm simply ignoring for the sake of choice sanity.
|
|
|
Post by bricejchandler on Jan 24, 2022 3:28:28 GMT -6
My usual setup is a Portaflex for classic tones and SVT when I want something more modern, and in parallel, for the flavor tracks I've used anything from Sansamp, Plexi, Twin with the spring cranked, whatever sounds cool. Anyway, it's all pretty standard stuff really but all that to say that a blend channel on an amp is cool for live work but I don't think it's the best option in the studio. At least I would find it really limiting. Limiting is the name of the game, I've had several studio's in various forms over the years with excess equipment or software that was either a waste of money or epically distracting. This whole new studio is based around a slimline hybrid version where everything's ready to go, I've spent 5 years choosing specific equipment to maximise efficiency whilst taking a small slice of my LFAC / racks of equipment days. In a commercial studio I get it, some demanded a 5150 or Mesa stack, U87 etc. but for a solo artist setup it's not necessary IME. Years back I had several amps to choose from (even if I hardly ever had time to record myself) but I'd always end up using my Engl. For me it sounded the best irrelevant of what I was trying to achieve and different tonality could be obtained by messing around with it. So my new ethos is buy right, buy once and make it work. Anyway if for some reason I can't get specific results I have the Ampeg SVT plugs, several direct DI's (Shelford, 6176, SSL) and a plethora of other options I'm simply ignoring for the sake of choice sanity. I totally agree as far as limiting your options, when I have an overall picture of a recording, or working on my own stuff I commit almost everything to tape. I was more commenting on the fact that I've never liked the sound of bass amps or pedals with a blend feature. The two sounds always feel disconnected to me, It always seems to futz with the Low end amongst other thiings. I get much better results treating the clean and the flavor channel separately. but again, that's a really personal thing. If you love the sound of the Orange go for it!! I've never heard it.
|
|
|
Post by bricejchandler on Jan 24, 2022 3:37:17 GMT -6
I'd love to hear the UT 47 in person.
I'll se if I can demo one and compare it to the real thing.
|
|
|
Post by nomatic on Jan 24, 2022 7:08:53 GMT -6
I heard the UT 47 recently and it sounded legit! I did not have a original next to it but outside kick it did that thing.....
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2022 16:05:48 GMT -6
I was more commenting on the fact that I've never liked the sound of bass amps or pedals with a blend feature. The two sounds always feel disconnected to me, It always seems to futz with the Low end amongst other thiings. I get much better results treating the clean and the flavor channel separately. but again, that's a really personal thing. If you love the sound of the Orange go for it!! I've never heard it. Understood, I'll just have to try it me thinks.. If I have to blend / DI so be it ..
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Jan 27, 2022 12:02:04 GMT -6
I'm not so sure about that. One thjing that iS certain is that you can't use a small diaphragm close up, because on a cab with many small speakers they don't really couple and form the LF wave until you're at least a couple or so feet from the cab. If that was true wouldn't I have to be a couple of feet from my headphones in order to hear low frequencies? No, because of the way that a headphone diaphragm is directly coupled to the tympanic membrane by a small air channel of defined space/volume. This space is also far too small for the speed of sound to make much difference.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Jan 27, 2022 12:07:45 GMT -6
My usual setup is a Portaflex for classic tones and SVT when I want something more modern, and in parallel, for the flavor tracks I've used anything from Sansamp, Plexi, Twin with the spring cranked, whatever sounds cool. Anyway, it's all pretty standard stuff really but all that to say that a blend channel on an amp is cool for live work but I don't think it's the best option in the studio. At least I would find it really limiting. Limiting is the name of the game, I've had several studio's in various forms over the years with excess equipment or software that was either a waste of money or epically distracting. This whole new studio is based around a slimline hybrid version where everything's ready to go, I've spent 5 years choosing specific equipment to maximise efficiency whilst taking a small slice of my LFAC / racks of equipment days. In a commercial studio I get it, some demanded a 5150 or Mesa stack, U87 etc. but for a solo artist setup it's not necessary IME. Years back I had several amps to choose from (even if I hardly ever had time to record myself) but I'd always end up using my Engl. For me it sounded the best irrelevant of what I was trying to achieve and different tonality could be obtained by messing around with it. So my new ethos is buy right, buy once and make it work. Anyway if for some reason I can't get specific results I have the Ampeg SVT plugs, several direct DI's (Shelford, 6176, SSL) and a plethora of other options I'm simply ignoring for the sake of choice sanity. I dunno... by simply improving what I have while almost never letting anything go I've accumulated a pretty good (and fairly large) collection.
|
|
|
Post by robschnapf on Jan 27, 2022 12:08:48 GMT -6
I’ll say it again as I’ve done the work. If you going for the Fet47 vibe, the Bock 195 is bigger And the Roswell Coloaras sounds awesome as well.
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Jan 27, 2022 12:14:20 GMT -6
I’ll say it again as I’ve done the work. If you going for the Fet47 vibe, the Bock 195 is bigger And the Roswell Coloaras sounds awesome as well. Heiserman 47FET.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2022 13:37:40 GMT -6
Limiting is the name of the game, I've had several studio's in various forms over the years with excess equipment or software that was either a waste of money or epically distracting. This whole new studio is based around a slimline hybrid version where everything's ready to go, I've spent 5 years choosing specific equipment to maximise efficiency whilst taking a small slice of my LFAC / racks of equipment days. I dunno... by simply improving what I have while almost never letting anything go I've accumulated a pretty good (and fairly large) collection. Just sounds like hoarding to me.
|
|