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Post by schmalzy on Dec 6, 2021 16:50:31 GMT -6
Sooooo...I stopped at a pawn shop today. I just picked up one of these (in a fairly "used" condition): www.coutant.org/shursm59/No picture yet I'll get to that when I get a chance! The lore out there is that it's a little flatter and less sensitive than a 57. I'm excited to try it on a guitar amp, an alternate vocal sound, or as a stunt mic/room mic for drums.
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Post by jmoose on Dec 6, 2021 17:04:32 GMT -6
Anyone try the RE320? Wondering what the consensus is... local shop has a couple in stock.
I like the M88 but would never own one. Maybe just crap luck but I've killed at least 3 or 4 of 'em. Probably worth noting that all but one were in live environments & I don't know the history of the mics but still... not a good record.
For handheld vocals? Not a 58 fan. Have one just in case someone asks but mostly it lives in my PA work box & gets used for talkback. Preference is Audix OM series... have a trio of OM2 as default "live vocal" mics.
M80 was also too bright for me. Was hired to track a show in a theater and the crew there insisted on using the M80 vs our typical Audix or Beta 58. Grabbed a lot of stage leakage, enough that when I muted the lead vocal the entire mix changed. Maybe that helps slice though live but on tape? Ugh. Lots of creative gating/expansion to keep shit reeled in.
441 is awesome. Have one wish I had another. Usually winds up on snare or the bands cutting live and I suspect the "scratch vocal" might be a keeper? Goes there.
Sleeper 57/58 killer? Blue Encore 100i.
Bought a pair few years ago when I needed more dynamics to cover a double booking of studio & live audio. They were on sale buy 1 get 1. First shot was snare drum straight swap for a 57 that was in place... never switched back. Used on all sorts of things & carried one as my personal gig vocal mic. Would swap it out for whatever beat 58/Sennheiser was in place, never got a complaint from sound monkeys.
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Post by reddirt on Dec 6, 2021 17:15:31 GMT -6
Your take on the M88 is correct IME jmoose; a great kick mic but ultimately the diaphragm gives way. The Shure 548 is a great mic if you can get one with a still great cap, Live they have presence but fidelity also. Cheers, Ross
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Post by plinker on Dec 6, 2021 17:20:47 GMT -6
The problem with the M88 is a well know (and solved) one. Inside the kick, the air blast destroys the capsule over time. You have to cover the headbasket completely with a foamy. Beyer sells one for not cheap, or you can roll with a off-brand.
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Post by the other mark williams on Dec 6, 2021 18:18:42 GMT -6
The problem with the M88 is a well know (and solved) one. Inside the kick, the air blast destroys the capsule over time. You have to cover the headbasket completely with a foamy. Beyer sells one for not cheap, or you can roll with a off-brand. Does that seriously—for real—solve the problem? Or just delay the inevitable? I’ve got an M88 here that I’ve never tried on kick.
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Post by plinker on Dec 6, 2021 18:28:37 GMT -6
The problem with the M88 is a well know (and solved) one. Inside the kick, the air blast destroys the capsule over time. You have to cover the headbasket completely with a foamy. Beyer sells one for not cheap, or you can roll with a off-brand. Does that seriously—for real—solve the problem? Or just delay the inevitable? I’ve got an M88 here that I’ve never tried on kick. IIRC, Beyer had a post on their website about the issue and the solution.
From personal experience, maybe it just delays the inevitable, and I haven't experienced the inevitable yet ;-} I'm using mine with a foamy that ALMOST covers the whole basket...just a quarter inch exposed at the rear. Yeah, I'm playing with fire.
However, for my ears and taste, the M88 is a clear winner over the usual, scooped-type mics on kick!!! It's not a basket ball sound.
edit: my memory might have been from a post on the Remote forum on GearFace where someone contacted Beyer and posted the response.
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Post by plinker on Dec 6, 2021 18:35:03 GMT -6
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Post by plinker on Dec 6, 2021 19:00:30 GMT -6
Just to add to the confusion, if you check the M88TG manual you'll see: "For miking a bass drum use the PS 88 popscreen." vintageking.com/beyerdynamic-ps-88That will not do! It must cover the entire (or damn near close to it, in my case) basket as in my previous post. Just for reference, I went deep down the rabbit hole on this one back in 2008. Cover the whole basket. Anything less is like asking a person with heart disease to only eat bacon 3 meals a day. Also note, if I could afford it, I would eat bacon three meals a day!
p.s.: I don't have heart disease (yet).
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Post by jmoose on Dec 6, 2021 20:11:17 GMT -6
Fwiw I only remember one of those M88 dying on kick drum. Brass... like a saxophone yes. Guitar amp... super reverb maybe? Not a 100 watt plexi or Boogie.
And I've killed other Beyer mics too. I've destroyed more Beyer then all other brands combined... made some very expensive baby rattles they wanted nothing to do with fixing.
I like em. But I won't spend the moose bucks on them.
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Post by plinker on Dec 6, 2021 20:31:08 GMT -6
Fwiw I only remember one of those M88 dying on kick drum. Brass... like a saxophone yes. Guitar amp... super reverb maybe? Not a 100 watt plexi or Boogie. And I've killed other Beyer mics too. I've destroyed more Beyer then all other brands combined... made some very expensive baby rattles they wanted nothing to do with fixing. I like em. But I won't spend the moose bucks on them. Were those the "TG" (Touring Grade) versions? The Touring Grade verisons were designed to prevent the failures people were experiencing with live use.
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Post by jmoose on Dec 6, 2021 21:12:34 GMT -6
Were those the "TG" (Touring Grade) versions? The Touring Grade verisons were designed to prevent the failures people were experiencing with live use. All including an m500, m260 pencil mic and 2 dead M160 were the "throw em in the trash" because Beyer service in long island told us to fuck off and buy new ones versions. Now then! How about the RE320?! Bueller..?
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Post by Ward on Dec 6, 2021 21:22:50 GMT -6
I have the Telefunken M80 and M82 and love them both. Yes they're bright, but in a good way and in a way where you can easily slope down the top from 5K and have a flat sound.
Also, the Beyer 201 is fabulous mic although most might find it dull. It will tame hats like nothing else. and the rejection is also effective.
Finally, my strongest recommended dynamic is the EV RE27. Galdangit, I love that microphone!!
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Post by the other mark williams on Dec 6, 2021 21:28:18 GMT -6
I have the Telefunken M80 and M82 and love them both. Yes they're bright, but in a good way and in a way where you can easily slope down the top from 5K and have a flat sound. Also, the Beyer 201 is fabulous mic although most might find it dull. It will tame hats like nothing else. and the rejection is also effective. Finally, my strongest recommended dynamic is the EV RE27. Galdangit, I love that microphone!! I’ve never used an RE-27, Ward. In your experience, how does it differ from the (far more common) RE-20?
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Post by plinker on Dec 6, 2021 21:30:08 GMT -6
Were those the "TG" (Touring Grade) versions? The Touring Grade verisons were designed to prevent the failures people were experiencing with live use. All including an m500, m260 pencil mic and 2 dead M160 were the "throw em in the trash" because Beyer service in long island told us to fuck off and buy new ones versions. Now then! How about the RE320?! Bueller..? Oh, right. I have an M500 "FO" version. It fucked-off...
The "TG" versions are much improved!
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Post by Ward on Dec 6, 2021 21:32:14 GMT -6
I have the Telefunken M80 and M82 and love them both. Yes they're bright, but in a good way and in a way where you can easily slope down the top from 5K and have a flat sound. Also, the Beyer 201 is fabulous mic although most might find it dull. It will tame hats like nothing else. and the rejection is also effective. Finally, my strongest recommended dynamic is the EV RE27. Galdangit, I love that microphone!! I’ve never used an RE-27, Ward. In your experience, how does it differ from the (far more common) RE-20? It's like somebody opened a window and let all the sound in! It's so much more open sounding, no choke in the tone at all. Rivals a condensor for presence with the flick of a switch and the Venting and D tech is fabulous. Also the Neodyminium magnet works great with the moving could to cut the noise in half/raising output considerably. I have had mine for (gulp) 30 years! Same one, nothing broken, everything is 100% unchanged from day-1. Killer on kick, voice-over, brass, bass cabinet and big perc/drums.
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Post by stratboy on Dec 6, 2021 21:55:27 GMT -6
Were those the "TG" (Touring Grade) versions? The Touring Grade verisons were designed to prevent the failures people were experiencing with live use. All including an m500, m260 pencil mic and 2 dead M160 were the "throw em in the trash" because Beyer service in long island told us to fuck off and buy new ones versions. Now then! How about the RE320?! Bueller..? I have an RE320. I bought it for kick and it worked pretty well. Where I am now, I won’t be recording live drums anymore, so it’s been in its case for a couple of years. This thread is making me want to pull it out and try it on vocals and guitars.
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Post by sirthought on Dec 6, 2021 22:54:59 GMT -6
I the 320 is a good purchase. I've used it on kick several times. I think it's good for vocals and cabs too, but you just need to try what feels right on the song.
I have moved kick duty to a different dynamic mic, the Alien8, which is something unique and I'm enjoying the results. But no hesitation for using the 320... Really on anything.
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Post by the other mark williams on Dec 7, 2021 0:14:19 GMT -6
I’ve never used an RE-27, Ward. In your experience, how does it differ from the (far more common) RE-20? It's like somebody opened a window and let all the sound in! It's so much more open sounding, no choke in the tone at all. Rivals a condensor for presence with the flick of a switch and the Venting and D tech is fabulous. Also the Neodyminium magnet works great with the moving could to cut the noise in half/raising output considerably. I have had mine for (gulp) 30 years! Same one, nothing broken, everything is 100% unchanged from day-1. Killer on kick, voice-over, brass, bass cabinet and big perc/drums. Excellent - sounds like I would love it. I've always found the RE-20 to sound a little pinched on vocals to me for some reason. Maybe "choked" (your word) is a different way to describe that sound.
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Post by gouge on Dec 7, 2021 2:26:06 GMT -6
Shittt.. now i gotta hear a 27 too.
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Post by the other mark williams on Dec 7, 2021 2:27:16 GMT -6
It's like somebody opened a window and let all the sound in! It's so much more open sounding, no choke in the tone at all. Rivals a condensor for presence with the flick of a switch and the Venting and D tech is fabulous. Also the Neodyminium magnet works great with the moving could to cut the noise in half/raising output considerably. I have had mine for (gulp) 30 years! Same one, nothing broken, everything is 100% unchanged from day-1. Killer on kick, voice-over, brass, bass cabinet and big perc/drums. Excellent - sounds like I would love it. I've always found the RE-20 to sound a little pinched on vocals to me for some reason. Maybe "choked" (your word) is a different way to describe that sound. OK - well, actually, I just found a used one in excellent condition for an attractive price, so I bought it. Should be here in a few days.
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Post by svart on Dec 7, 2021 7:59:27 GMT -6
Tried the M80 2 different times because people keep raving about it. To me it doesn't sound much different than the Shure Beta57A at all, which is my go-to snare mic.
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Post by svart on Dec 7, 2021 8:04:27 GMT -6
I have the Telefunken M80 and M82 and love them both. Yes they're bright, but in a good way and in a way where you can easily slope down the top from 5K and have a flat sound. Also, the Beyer 201 is fabulous mic although most might find it dull. It will tame hats like nothing else. and the rejection is also effective. Finally, my strongest recommended dynamic is the EV RE27. Galdangit, I love that microphone!! See, I just don't get that M201 comment.. I thought the M201 made hats much WORSE. It seemed to focus the hat sound into a region around 2-3K and made them more noticeably nasal sounding in the mix. I just couldn't stand it.
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Post by Ward on Dec 7, 2021 19:30:56 GMT -6
I have the Telefunken M80 and M82 and love them both. Yes they're bright, but in a good way and in a way where you can easily slope down the top from 5K and have a flat sound. Also, the Beyer 201 is fabulous mic although most might find it dull. It will tame hats like nothing else. and the rejection is also effective. Finally, my strongest recommended dynamic is the EV RE27. Galdangit, I love that microphone!! See, I just don't get that M201 comment.. I thought the M201 made hats much WORSE. It seemed to focus the hat sound into a region around 2-3K and made them more noticeably nasal sounding in the mix. I just couldn't stand it. I have three and neither sounds like the others. Could it just be that? And perhaps preamp choice makes a difference. I used mine through a Grace M101 (also have 3 of those)
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Post by the other mark williams on Dec 7, 2021 19:36:19 GMT -6
See, I just don't get that M201 comment.. I thought the M201 made hats much WORSE. It seemed to focus the hat sound into a region around 2-3K and made them more noticeably nasal sounding in the mix. I just couldn't stand it. I have three and neither sounds like the others. Could it just be that? And perhaps preamp choice makes a difference. I used mine through a Grace M101 (also have 3 of those) Well of course the followup question to that is, (referring to the Grace M101s) "do they sound like the others?"
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Post by Ward on Dec 8, 2021 6:34:37 GMT -6
I have three and neither sounds like the others. Could it just be that? And perhaps preamp choice makes a difference. I used mine through a Grace M101 (also have 3 of those) Well of course the followup question to that is, (referring to the Grace M101s) "do they sound like the others?" Thankfully the Graces are all the same 'edition' and within a year or so of each other, and yes, the Graces do 'sound like each other', so to speak. Graces are pristine clean low to nil THD never a bad day workhorses. But you already know that. LOL Yeah, they're indistinguishable.
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