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Post by christophert on Nov 30, 2021 3:44:26 GMT -6
No surprise here. This is how Avid works. Pay - or leave. I deserted, and went Reaper for a few years, but then their hopelessly complex clumsy recording playlists / no comprehensive track grouping and no post inserts drove me back to ProTools. (other than that, Reaper is awesome) The main thing that keeps me on Poo Tools is compatibility with nearly all of my clients and other studios. I have to pay - it makes my life easier / even though I despise the company
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2021 7:11:57 GMT -6
No surprise here. This is how Avid works. Pay - or leave. I deserted, and went Reaper for a few years, but then their hopelessly complex clumsy recording playlists / no comprehensive track grouping and no post inserts drove me back to ProTools. (other than that, Reaper is awesome) The main thing that keeps me on Poo Tools is compatibility with nearly all of my clients and other studios. I have to pay - it makes my life easier / even though I despise the company The takes system in reaper is dogsh1t. Everyone I know makes a folder and just mashes control/command t to creat a ton of tracks. The stock plugins are also mostly awful and only defended by weirdos on the internet. The JS plugins are usually better than the actual Rea ones.
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Post by enlav on Nov 30, 2021 7:31:57 GMT -6
Maybe I should start a poll for this, but how many of you all actually own perpetual licenses? Am I the idiot who insists on buying Adobe Photoshop (metaphor)? The stock plugins are also mostly awful and only defended by weirdos on the internet. The JS plugins are usually better than the actual Rea ones. I'm pretty sure some of those defenders are independent broadcasting/streaming guys that are just wowed by what internal routing software can do for their limited hardware setups (or VST plugins through their broadcast/streaming apps). Some streaming applications have processing *UI that is so raw that any stock plugin looks like an oasis in the desert. I remember one review of the Atem Mini where the reviewer was awe-struck over what a noise gate/expander was.
*edit: forgot the most important component of the state.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2021 8:03:46 GMT -6
I actually have a perpetual pro tools 11 license, it's not like I can't use it at any point I just choose not to ..
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Post by Martin John Butler on Nov 30, 2021 8:31:01 GMT -6
Bummer. I never went for Pro Tools in the beginning of my DAW adventures for this very same reason. Luckily, it seemed unnecessary for my uses. I completely understand why it was necessary for some people's working situation though.
Logic was $200 in 2012, and I've had so many free updates since then I've lost count. Logic's editing is quite simple one you get the hang of it. Comping's a breeze and editing volume and transients is easy to do as well. For non-drastic pitch correction even Flex Pitch works well now.
I use two of the compressors regularly, the DBX and the 1176. A pinch of the DBX on the 2 bus is as good as anything I've tried. They also give you a boatload of free sounds which have on rare occasion saved the day.
I haven't felt the need to bother with LUNA yet. Purchasing yet more UAD digital emulations is a lot less appealing than getting a new heavy duty pro mic stand or an SM57 or a purpose use guitar like my cheap Yamaha for Nashville tuning.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2021 9:21:51 GMT -6
Maybe I should start a poll for this, but how many of you all actually own perpetual licenses? Am I the idiot who insists on buying Adobe Photoshop (metaphor)? The stock plugins are also mostly awful and only defended by weirdos on the internet. The JS plugins are usually better than the actual Rea ones. I'm pretty sure some of those defenders are independent broadcasting/streaming guys that are just wowed by what internal routing software can do for their limited hardware setups (or VST plugins through their broadcast/streaming apps). Some streaming applications have processing *UI that is so raw that any stock plugin looks like an oasis in the desert. I remember one review of the Atem Mini where the reviewer was awe-struck over what a noise gate/expander was.
*edit: forgot the most important component of the state.
It’s half the online reaper cult pretty much. Even Kenny Goia. When the truth is that the stock non-linear plugins are mostly random pumpy shit boxes like ReaComp and the JS 1175. Free plugs are better than them. How can you call them compressors when they mathematically can’t compress? Their sidechains are broken. How do you have anything with 1176 like filters operating at 44.1 khz or even 192khz without lookahead? How will even lookahead stabilize the filters? How will the filters even work without running into the MHz? This is why 200 dollar hardware and the cheapest 1176 knockoff you can find beat up 99% of plugs. 30 bucks for Klanghelm DC8C3 gets you a compressor that works and is dirt cheap and it’s not even on sale. Like wow those attack filters actually mostly work. Reacomp is just pumping all over the place with icepicks everywhere. Not even the 200 dollar ART Dual Limiter has icepicks and that’s dirt cheap for a stereo compressor. DC8C3 100% feedback, smash mode, fast attack, crank up oversampling = no ice picks for 30 bucks. How can you say reaper can do it all?
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 30, 2021 9:23:02 GMT -6
So can one of you guys tell me how much I’m looking at if I let it lapse for a year? I get to just stay on the version last updated before my subscription lapses, right? For me 11/27/22
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Post by tim on Nov 30, 2021 9:42:08 GMT -6
Maybe I should start a poll for this, but how many of you all actually own perpetual licenses? Am I the idiot who insists on buying Adobe Photoshop (metaphor)? I'm pretty sure some of those defenders are independent broadcasting/streaming guys that are just wowed by what internal routing software can do for their limited hardware setups (or VST plugins through their broadcast/streaming apps). Some streaming applications have processing *UI that is so raw that any stock plugin looks like an oasis in the desert. I remember one review of the Atem Mini where the reviewer was awe-struck over what a noise gate/expander was.
*edit: forgot the most important component of the state.
It’s half the online reaper cult pretty much. Even Kenny Goia. When the truth is that the stock non-linear plugins are mostly random pumpy shit boxes like ReaComp and the JS 1175. Free plugs are better than them. How can you call them compressors when they mathematically can’t compress? Their sidechains are broken. How do you have anything with 1176 like filters operating at 44.1 khz or even 192khz without lookahead? How will even lookahead stabilize the filters? How will the filters even work without running into the MHz? This is why 200 dollar hardware and the cheapest 1176 knockoff you can find beat up 99% of plugs. 30 bucks for Klanghelm DC8C3 gets you a compressor that works and is dirt cheap and it’s not even on sale. Like wow those attack filters actually mostly work. Reacomp is just pumping all over the place with icepicks everywhere. Not even the 200 dollar ART Dual Limiter has icepicks and that’s dirt cheap for a stereo compressor. DC8C3 100% feedback, smash mode, fast attack, crank up oversampling = no ice picks for 30 bucks. How can you say reaper can do it all? Yeah I had the same impression of the stock plugins when I was tinkering with Reaper a few years ago. I remember going over to Reaper because PT couldn't handle iZotope Iris. PT keep crashing but Reaper handled it no problem. I've been meaning to try out the Klanghelm stuff.
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Post by svart on Nov 30, 2021 9:44:53 GMT -6
No surprise here. This is how Avid works. Pay - or leave. I deserted, and went Reaper for a few years, but then their hopelessly complex clumsy recording playlists / no comprehensive track grouping and no post inserts drove me back to ProTools. (other than that, Reaper is awesome) The main thing that keeps me on Poo Tools is compatibility with nearly all of my clients and other studios. I have to pay - it makes my life easier / even though I despise the company You should really be using reaper with hierarchical folders. Put the post effects on the main folder. I don't personally know many folks who use post-fader effects that aren't buss based anyway, which is probably why Reaper devs haven't prioritized it. There's a thread in the forums asking for it but very few voted for it to be implemented.
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Post by svart on Nov 30, 2021 9:49:05 GMT -6
No surprise here. This is how Avid works. Pay - or leave. I deserted, and went Reaper for a few years, but then their hopelessly complex clumsy recording playlists / no comprehensive track grouping and no post inserts drove me back to ProTools. (other than that, Reaper is awesome) The main thing that keeps me on Poo Tools is compatibility with nearly all of my clients and other studios. I have to pay - it makes my life easier / even though I despise the company The takes system in reaper is dogsh1t. Everyone I know makes a folder and just mashes control/command t to creat a ton of tracks. The stock plugins are also mostly awful and only defended by weirdos on the internet. The JS plugins are usually better than the actual Rea ones. Care to elaborate on why the takes are dogshit? I find them to be very easy to use. I turn off the takes-in-lanes and just let them write over the top of each other and just group the tracks so I can cycle through takes easily. I then just play through and slice where I want to audition takes. It (pun intended) takes minutes to do. I rarely use the stock plugs anymore, but honestly never really used anything more than the reagate, reasample5K and the reaEQ and now that I have a few 3rd party plugs that I like, I don't use these anymore anyway.
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Post by thirdeye on Nov 30, 2021 10:02:44 GMT -6
So can one of you guys tell me how much I’m looking at if I let it lapse for a year? I get to just stay on the version last updated before my subscription lapses, right? For me 11/27/22 Doesn't it stop working when the subscription expires?
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Post by christopher on Nov 30, 2021 11:04:01 GMT -6
Good question! A guy told me he hasn’t paid in years, that Avid just forgot to charge him and it keeps working. I hate giving them money, i just get the absolute cheapest. Thanks for the reminder to cancel my auto renew.
For Reaper lanes: After tracking is done, right click “take>explode tracks”.. that makes a folder with all the tracks. I always track into lanes and when I’m done I explode them out to edit if I really need to. Then re-implode them to lanes with best alt takes. Crappy thing is the stupid x-fade, I fix all those and render to new wav ASAP after editing.
I like Reaper lanes, since I can comp using left hand “s” to split at each word or syllable and one-click right hand to ‘Lego together’ a take. Very, very fast. Also can select multiple tracks, ie drum tracks, hit “g” to group, all the drum tracks will follow your lane selections.
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Post by drbill on Nov 30, 2021 11:23:56 GMT -6
Thinking of how much money I spend on coffee ($12 a week for the wife and myself) the cost of PT seems very small. I’ve been using it for almost 20 years and haven’t really ever had issues (lucky maybe?). At this stage of the game for me, I’ve got no interest in learning another program unless I absolutely needed to for some reason. I had to learn basics in cubase for a session at a studio, and some things seemed appealing, but it wasn’t enough to push me towards it. same here. I've had a few small things, but never anything horrid. And there is just no way I think some other DAWs do advanced automation like PT and post work flows like PT. Which is why it will stay king in big studios for a while longer for sure. Ditto to both. PT has been very, very good to me. Had it since v.2.x in the mid 90's. 25 years. Wow....how time flies.
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 30, 2021 11:24:06 GMT -6
So can one of you guys tell me how much I’m looking at if I let it lapse for a year? I get to just stay on the version last updated before my subscription lapses, right? For me 11/27/22 Doesn't it stop working when the subscription expires? Don't think that's right at all. You just lose support and have to pay more the next time you want to upgrade. Although, if I hadn't been a loyal customer and kept my auto renew on, I could have saved $100
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Post by ragan on Nov 30, 2021 11:33:00 GMT -6
Doesn't it stop working when the subscription expires? Don't think that's right at all. You just lose support and have to pay more the next time you want to upgrade. Although, if I hadn't been a loyal customer and kept my auto renew on, I could have saved $100 Last I recall, there was a kind of setup where you keep a perpetual license of whatever the most current release is when you stop paying for the sub (more expensive) and a setup where you don’t, you’re just getting the sub license while you’re actively paying for it (cheaper).
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Post by sean on Nov 30, 2021 12:31:54 GMT -6
I have a Perpetual Ultimate license and it was cheaper for me to get a new subscription instead of doing the support renewal. I think? I don’t know I have 3 licenses I keep going at all time and my Avid account and iLok is a mess 😂
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Post by subspace on Nov 30, 2021 13:38:42 GMT -6
You either have a perpetual license without an expiration date or a subscription plan with one.
You have to renew your support plan for a perpetual license each year to continue getting updates, otherwise you can use it perpetually at the last version you paid for support for.
Subscription licenses just stop working when you hit the expiration date.
Perpetual licenses with lapsed support plans can only be updated through NOS re-instatement plans vendors may still have on hand, otherwise Avid will only let you surrender them for a discount on a new one year subscription.
I've been showered with additional PT licenses since buying Carbon, so re-upping won't be an issue for awhile.
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Post by superwack on Nov 30, 2021 13:42:10 GMT -6
If you have a SUBSCRIPTION to Pro Tools, you lose it when you stop paying.
If you have a PERPETUAL licence and stop paying for yearly "support" you freeze at the latest version before you stopped paying and cannot upgrade. You used to be able to buy back in to support (with a penalty) and get back on the yearly 'support' but AVID has discontinued that so now if you want to upgrade your perpetual licence you have to re-buy at full price. AVID is also phasing this out at some point and going all subscription (according to a talk given by AVID's CEO where he discusses their transition to an Saas company - Software as a Service)
What worries me about subscriptions is that once they have everyone on one, AVID will 100% jack up the price. no doubt in my mind.
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Post by thirdeye on Nov 30, 2021 13:45:48 GMT -6
Doesn't it stop working when the subscription expires? Don't think that's right at all. You just lose support and have to pay more the next time you want to upgrade. Although, if I hadn't been a loyal customer and kept my auto renew on, I could have saved $100 Are you talking Perpetual with a support plan? Or subscription? This is what I've found online: "Subscriptions vs. Perpetual Licenses With standard Pro Tools and Pro Tools Ultimate, you have the choice between subscribing or purchasing a perpetual license. Subscriptions are paid month-to-month or up front for a 1-year commitment. Pro Tools will no longer work once your subscription has expired.
A perpetual license means you are buying the software outright and owning it forever. It comes with one year of free support and upgrades, and Pro Tools will continuously work on your system. However, you will not be able to download newer versions of Pro Tools once the year of free support has lapsed" ,unless you buy more time of the support plan"
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Post by nudwig on Nov 30, 2021 13:54:23 GMT -6
Did they do something weird with the perpetuals about a year ago? I have their Ultimate Perp but when I tried upgrading past my current 2020.9.1 it won't find the Ilok. I'm up to date and all that but I vaguely remember something like I had to give up my license? Anybody know?
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Post by thirdeye on Nov 30, 2021 13:59:17 GMT -6
Did they do something weird with the perpetuals about a year ago? I have their Ultimate Perp but when I tried upgrading past my current 2020.9.1 it won't find the Ilok. I'm up to date and all that but I vaguely remember something like I had to give up my license? Anybody know? Not that I know of. I have Perpetual for the recording studio and subscription for my personal laptop. I did have a weird thing happen recently where my subscription was put into ilok cloud instead of my physical ilok (my preference). Did your license move to cloud or somewhere different? Does ilok license manager see the license??
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Post by nudwig on Nov 30, 2021 14:22:05 GMT -6
Did they do something weird with the perpetuals about a year ago? I have their Ultimate Perp but when I tried upgrading past my current 2020.9.1 it won't find the Ilok. I'm up to date and all that but I vaguely remember something like I had to give up my license? Anybody know? Not that I know of. I have Perpetual for the recording studio and subscription for my personal laptop. I did have a weird thing happen recently where my subscription was put into ilok cloud instead of my physical ilok (my preference). Did your license move to cloud or somewhere different? Does ilok license manager see the license?? Thanks, it was one of those panic and revert moments and I haven't tried since. I do remember everything looking normal and hitting Synchronize and Refresh a bunch and it just wouldn't see it until I reverted, the cloud thing or somewhere different sounds plausible. Was very strange as in 15 years or so I thought I knew all the PT gotchas. I'm definitely with John on the annoyance of the yearly charges after I've shelled out I don't know how much on my HDX system. The interesting thing is my 2019 16" laptop runs bigger sessions natively than my 2010 12 core tower with HDX. Obviously it's a much newer computer but I'm also wondering if this new power we all now have access to also means less HDX cards sold and they're trying to keep the cash flow up.
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Post by plinker on Nov 30, 2021 14:32:01 GMT -6
Fuck 'em!
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Post by srb on Nov 30, 2021 15:04:48 GMT -6
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Post by brenta on Nov 30, 2021 15:47:25 GMT -6
My strategy has been to buy a perpetual license once every several years when I get a new computer. 99% of the features Avid adds have no value to me, and it seems like its a coin flip as to whether each new version of Pro Tools will be more stable or less stable than the last version. Some OS and Pro Tools combos are more stable than others.
Last time I bought a license (V12), I think I got to the 12th month of my 1 year "support plan" when they released an update that finally stabilized my system. At that point I left everything as is, until I was forced update to Sierra when I got an Apollo X interface. So as-of now I'm still on PT 12.7 and Sierra, which has been working great.
Doing this I think Pro Tools has cost me $50-$75 a year when I breakdown the cost of perpetual licenses for how long I use them.
I'll finally be upgrading my computer to the new M1X macs soon, so I'll need to buy a new PT license. If they do indeed switch to 100% subscription plans, this will probably be my last version of Pro Tools. Lots of other intriguing options out there that are getting better and better.
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