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Post by thecolourfulway on Aug 29, 2021 1:21:50 GMT -6
computers made everyone a “recording engineer/producer”. Once “everybody” is involved - especially in the US with a striking wealth imbalance - you have a lot of people with a lot of bread looking to get “out of the box” since computers sound like computers…it doesn’t hurt that the dollar is in peril and material investments are more appealing than cash. Lots of good theories here that’s just mine, it’s certainly a phenomenon! I wanted to grab a rev D a couple years ago, well that ship sailed, alas!
The good news is we have a lot of new designers doing stuff at least as cool and sometimes better than vintage, inspired by those great sounds and doing discrete/hand wired. That’s the sweet spot. But yeah, we all still want a rev D haha
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Post by Ward on Aug 29, 2021 14:12:52 GMT -6
However out of the compressors in this rack the 1178 was the least used. I never took to the sound or action of it. So it has sat in the rack for for over 40 years. Maybe I should give it another try. Maybe you should just sell it to me. I have a use for it.  |
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Post by Ward on Aug 29, 2021 14:15:44 GMT -6
computers made everyone a “recording engineer/producer”. Once “everybody” is involved - especially in the US with a striking wealth imbalance - you have a lot of people with a lot of bread looking to get “out of the box” since computers sound like computers…it doesn’t hurt that the dollar is in peril and material investments are more appealing than cash. Lots of good theories here that’s just mine, it’s certainly a phenomenon! I wanted to grab a rev D a couple years ago, well that ship sailed, alas! The good news is we have a lot of new designers doing stuff at least as cool and sometimes better than vintage, inspired by those great sounds and doing discrete/hand wired. That’s the sweet spot. But yeah, we all still want a rev D haha I hate to be a pest, but if you actually want an 1176 Rev D, the audioscape 76D is the best Rev D you'll find on the planet! All the tone, all the gain control, none of the noise. Ok, I'll stop evangelizing for the moment. |
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Post by rowmat on Aug 29, 2021 16:53:24 GMT -6
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Post by standup on Aug 29, 2021 19:22:20 GMT -6
Incidentally, not the same topic exactly, but this year I sold a Princeton Reverb silverface for about twice what I paid for it, and got a Swart amp in my room instead. Which for me, right now, is working quite nicely.
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Post by the other mark williams on Aug 30, 2021 1:07:42 GMT -6
Incidentally, not the same topic exactly, but this year I sold a Princeton Reverb silverface for about twice what I paid for it, and got a Swart amp in my room instead. Which for me, right now, is working quite nicely. Swarts are beautiful amps, man. Nice one. |
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Post by yotonic on Aug 30, 2021 1:32:05 GMT -6
Bob Clearmountain uses one side of one of his 1178 on lead vocals often. I've always wanted to try one, hopefully AudioScape makes it happen in the near future! Wasn't there some kind of story behind Clearmountian and his 1178? Like he got 'em from the Power Station because they were going to toss 'em or something? Feel like I'm in bizarro land. When did the 1178 become a desirable piece? Maybe its because legit "vintage" 1176 pricing went through the roof? Years ago you couldn't give 'em away and nobody liked 'em for much of anything. Was kinda viewed as the unloved step kid of the 1176... transformers replaced with opamps, no class A circuit. The dual mono mode sucked since it couldn't decouple attack & release times. Maybe there's a few things you can get away with that on... Then again I remember when I got into this mess mid 90s an 1176 was a $300 box all day long. Could find a U67 for like $1500 without much of a struggle? Was all just old junk that not many people wanted. First studio I worked at, we got a monthly (or 2 weeks?) newspaper thing, I think it had an orange cover and was called "Pro Audio Trader" or something like that. People all over the country would list their stuff with a phone number. Email was still kinda new! If only I had a time machine... Fast forward, maybe not even 5 years. Post interknot version 1.0, smackie 8 bus consoles and Digi 001 home toolz... I bought a pair of the then brand new reissue 1176 from GuiTarget. Couple months after they were announced and shipping. Paid something like $1500 each which was about the going rate for an old one, still easy to find BTW... They were a special order and the guy at GC asked me what I was going to do with a limiter? What are these things? Why don't you use the Waves L1? What's the difference?! Time flies like a banana. I've owned them all Rev D, Blue Stripe, and my favorite on vocals is the 1178. Just my personal favorite, but coincidentally a favorite of a lot of other guys making great records. I love the grab on it, it's different than the 1176. To my ears it's a cross between a vintage vibe and a super forward pop vibe. And I find guys in both production camps using it a lot. I think John Fields makes great records and I like a lot of the artists he has worked with. He told me his regular rig for vox is an API through an 1178 with a Neumann U87 or M49. This Parachute song he did is a Neumann M49-API 3124-UREI 1178. Jon Kaplan mixed it. Wish young guys were making more records like this, reminds me of the Rolling Stones with keys, sax, backing vox etc. |
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Post by Ward on Aug 30, 2021 7:04:53 GMT -6
I've owned them all Rev D, Blue Stripe, and my favorite on vocals is the 1178. Just my personal favorite, but coincidentally a favorite of a lot of other guys making great records. I love the grab on it, it's different than the 1176. To my ears it's a cross between a vintage vibe and a super forward pop vibe. And I find guys in both production camps using it a lot. I think John Fields mak SNIP So, would it be fair to say you might be interested in an audioscape 78?  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2021 9:47:39 GMT -6
computers made everyone a “recording engineer/producer”. Once “everybody” is involved - especially in the US with a striking wealth imbalance - you have a lot of people with a lot of bread looking to get “out of the box” since computers sound like computers…it doesn’t hurt that the dollar is in peril and material investments are more appealing than cash. Lots of good theories here that’s just mine, it’s certainly a phenomenon! I wanted to grab a rev D a couple years ago, well that ship sailed, alas! The good news is we have a lot of new designers doing stuff at least as cool and sometimes better than vintage, inspired by those great sounds and doing discrete/hand wired. That’s the sweet spot. But yeah, we all still want a rev D haha They think vintage distortion will solve their problems when clean digital tools are the only thing making their recordings salvable. Eg: dynamic EQs (kill stupid noises without nuking tone. Instruments that need to be refretted can only be saved by stuff like Nova and Pro Q) Slick EQ GE (surgical japanese mode and the api if invisible American mode) MDW EQ (invisible filters but parametric) PSP Master Q2 (cleanest notches ever) PSP E27 (2x mode is pretty much an easy to use defibrillator to use phase anomalies to shock dead inside tracks back to life) and having access to a ridiculous variety of Pultecs to add life back in Then every de-esser imaginable to stack (the more weapons you have, the better) and Kotelnikov to level and peak limit tracks that literally can’t take two rounds of compression without the distortion breaking through. It’s a lifesaver that’s saved so many vocal and drum tracks and brought justice down upon Rode overheads and Chinese condenser / AT 2020 vocals. |
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Post by enlav on Aug 30, 2021 9:54:57 GMT -6
[...]you have a lot of people with a lot of bread looking to get “out of the box” since computers sound like computers…it doesn’t hurt that the dollar is in peril and material investments are more appealing than cash. Lots of good theories here that’s just mine[...] A quick aside, but when I was in sales/consultation, the majority of my clients were churches and wealthy DIY'ers/Families. Sure - you had the occasional voice-over/radio personality that was looking for in-home solutions, but I would more often find myself in a pool house or a really new home built with its back to an artificial lake in a walk-out basement giving advice on how to appease potential noise complaints. When I consider the journey that some of these folks went through with Kempers and eventually getting into vintage/boutique amps, I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually went through the same with recording equipment and microphones.
I hate to be a pest, but if you actually want an 1176 Rev D, the audioscape 76D is the best Rev D you'll find on the planet! All the tone, all the gain control, none of the noise. Any chance there will ever be a "golden" revision that allows for changing input/output options like the Splice? |
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Post by thecolourfulway on Aug 30, 2021 14:20:44 GMT -6
I hate to be a pest, but if you actually want an 1176 Rev D, the audioscape 76D is the best Rev D you'll find on the planet! All the tone, all the gain control, none of the noise. Ok, I'll stop evangelizing for the moment. Haha Ward, you better believe I’m on the AS bandwagon, plenty in my rack! But, there’s a collector in me that can’t help considering everything a “placeholder” until I trade up to the real thing. That’s nothing to do with sound, just a bad habit  |
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Post by audioscape on Aug 30, 2021 16:37:26 GMT -6
Wasn't there some kind of story behind Clearmountian and his 1178? Like he got 'em from the Power Station because they were going to toss 'em or something? Feel like I'm in bizarro land. When did the 1178 become a desirable piece? Maybe its because legit "vintage" 1176 pricing went through the roof? Years ago you couldn't give 'em away and nobody liked 'em for much of anything. Was kinda viewed as the unloved step kid of the 1176... transformers replaced with opamps, no class A circuit. The dual mono mode sucked since it couldn't decouple attack & release times. Maybe there's a few things you can get away with that on... Then again I remember when I got into this mess mid 90s an 1176 was a $300 box all day long. Could find a U67 for like $1500 without much of a struggle? Was all just old junk that not many people wanted. First studio I worked at, we got a monthly (or 2 weeks?) newspaper thing, I think it had an orange cover and was called "Pro Audio Trader" or something like that. People all over the country would list their stuff with a phone number. Email was still kinda new! If only I had a time machine... Fast forward, maybe not even 5 years. Post interknot version 1.0, smackie 8 bus consoles and Digi 001 home toolz... I bought a pair of the then brand new reissue 1176 from GuiTarget. Couple months after they were announced and shipping. Paid something like $1500 each which was about the going rate for an old one, still easy to find BTW... They were a special order and the guy at GC asked me what I was going to do with a limiter? What are these things? Why don't you use the Waves L1? What's the difference?! Time flies like a banana. I've owned them all Rev D, Blue Stripe, and my favorite on vocals is the 1178. Just my personal favorite, but coincidentally a favorite of a lot of other guys making great records. I love the grab on it, it's different than the 1176. To my ears it's a cross between a vintage vibe and a super forward pop vibe. And I find guys in both production camps using it a lot. I think John Fields makes great records and I like a lot of the artists he has worked with. He told me his regular rig for vox is an API through an 1178 with a Neumann U87 or M49. This Parachute song he did is a Neumann M49-API 3124-UREI 1178. Jon Kaplan mixed it. Wish young guys were making more records like this, reminds me of the Rolling Stones with keys, sax, backing vox etc. Just here to say that this mix sounds IN-SANE!!! Probably one of the BEST mixes I've heard in YEARS for this style of music... The tracking is definitely amazing, so props to John Fields but this Jon Kaplan mix is NUTSSSS... I'd love to know what KAPLAN used on the LD VOX... 😎👍 Thank you for sharing! This band rules. |
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Post by yotonic on Aug 30, 2021 17:41:05 GMT -6
This is what Kaplan used on the lead vox:
"Reductive eq with the digi eq to clean up the bottom and low mids before sending into 2 compressors in parallel. UAD 1176 at 20:1 with a pretty fast attack and release for the edge and a UAD fairchild with a medium release for the smooth thing.
Both prob had a little additional eq (eq3 again) to tailor the tone a bit pre-compressor and a bit of de-essing.
Both of those channels then go into another chain with the Massey L2007 cranking down pretty hard, fast release, smooth setting. Then a UAD Pultec with a ton of 12k and some low end boost. I probably used the waves C4 for a tiny bit of multiband compression. Maybe some more de-essing and some final subtle eq with the Oxford eq. And Decapitator.
Effects were a short plate (UAD EMT 140) an 1/8th one side and dotted 1/8 other from an echoboy binson setting and a 1/4 note stereo delay of some sort from another echo boy. I make these pretty dark so you feel them rather than hear them. I also use the pitchblender as a subtle spreader. Up 2 cents one side, down 2 cents on the other, 12ms delay one side, 7 ms delay on the other.
That one came from my old friend Jason Goldstein's H3000 setting. He probably learned it from Andy Wallace or someone when he was assisting. Works great. Turn it up until you can hear it and then back it off a bit. Really one of those things that makes it sound expensive. I’ve tried it with other plugs but never like it as much. You don’t hear it, but miss it a lot when it's gone."
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Post by audioscape on Aug 30, 2021 23:27:49 GMT -6
This is what Kaplan used on the lead vox: "Reductive eq with the digi eq to clean up the bottom and low mids before sending into 2 compressors in parallel. UAD 1176 at 20:1 with a pretty fast attack and release for the edge and a UAD fairchild with a medium release for the smooth thing. Both prob had a little additional eq (eq3 again) to tailor the tone a bit pre-compressor and a bit of de-essing. Both of those channels then go into another chain with the Massey L2007 cranking down pretty hard, fast release, smooth setting. Then a UAD Pultec with a ton of 12k and some low end boost. I probably used the waves C4 for a tiny bit of multiband compression. Maybe some more de-essing and some final subtle eq with the Oxford eq. And Decapitator. Effects were a short plate (UAD EMT 140) an 1/8th one side and dotted 1/8 other from an echoboy binson setting and a 1/4 note stereo delay of some sort from another echo boy. I make these pretty dark so you feel them rather than hear them. I also use the pitchblender as a subtle spreader. Up 2 cents one side, down 2 cents on the other, 12ms delay one side, 7 ms delay on the other. That one came from my old friend Jason Goldstein's H3000 setting. He probably learned it from Andy Wallace or someone when he was assisting. Works great. Turn it up until you can hear it and then back it off a bit. Really one of those things that makes it sound expensive. I’ve tried it with other plugs but never like it as much. You don’t hear it, but miss it a lot when it's gone." WOW! THANK YOU for this! Absolutely, amazingly INTRIGUING! Most especially the last bit regarding recreating that H3000 setting! I KNEW I heard an 1176 cranking down fairly hard on that vocal - didn't know if it was UAD or analog, but man!! Was this ENTIRE song mixed ITB? I'm presuming so...! Thank you for the info! This is AWESOME. |
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Post by yotonic on Aug 31, 2021 15:56:51 GMT -6
The vocal was tracked by John Fields with an 1178 also. Yes mixed iTB.
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Post by winetree on Aug 31, 2021 17:25:02 GMT -6
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,966 
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Post by ericn on Aug 31, 2021 20:13:38 GMT -6
Damn at that price I at least expect a couple of pics! |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Aug 31, 2021 21:02:23 GMT -6
I love that the body of the text says the price is "not negotiable" at $1.5m but the subject line has already lowered it to $1m. Something makes me think he'd take $950k plus shipping. Call it a hunch. |
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Post by chessparov on Aug 31, 2021 21:11:34 GMT -6
Maybe throw in a case too.
Chris
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Post by rowmat on Sept 2, 2021 0:22:03 GMT -6
Not just vintage audio gear. Here’s a photo of our regular session bass player from an era where a working muso could actually make a decent living. He was a prolific session player throughout the 1970’s, 1980’s and beyond. This is him in front of his Aston Martin DB5 (the James Bond Aston) around 1980. I remember he said it cost him around $30,000 AUD. I’m guessing he wished he kept it and stuck it in a garage as their prices have gone up just a ‘little’ since then. www.carsales.com.au/cars/aston-martin/db5/ |
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Post by EmRR on Sept 2, 2021 5:52:13 GMT -6
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Sept 2, 2021 6:04:16 GMT -6
Now that’s just cruelty to guitar players. |
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Post by EmRR on Sept 2, 2021 6:22:43 GMT -6
Now that’s just cruelty to guitar players. Feels a little better with the inflation calc, but not a lot. |
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Post by christopher on Sept 5, 2021 11:32:35 GMT -6
I just hope people don't look at the prices and decide they can't risk using this stuff in sessions anymore. I'm running into this right now, owners trying to tell me to use the 414's instead of the vintage mics and that the chinese mics are just as good.
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Post by drbill on Sept 5, 2021 13:45:53 GMT -6
I just hope people don't look at the prices and decide they can't risk using this stuff in sessions anymore. I'm running into this right now, owners trying to tell me to use the 414's instead of the vintage mics and that the chinese mics are just as good. I've never had owners of studio's tell me that, but I HAVE had them tell me that to use the vintage "M49's, C12's, etc. - the tweaky high end stuff" - that there is an uncharge to keep them properly maintained. If it's a fair upcharge, I'm 100% OK with that. It costs real money to keep them up and functional. |
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