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Post by mrholmes on May 22, 2021 7:08:24 GMT -6
All the years I never thought about it. But it came to my mind today.
Do professional switch off the phantom power off on condensers when the mics are not in use?
Background:
I most often leave all condenser microphones on - just in case inspiration hits me I just turn around and sing, or track acoustics.....
THX Holmes...
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Post by Ward on May 22, 2021 8:19:11 GMT -6
What I have been told: "Depends on the preamp and how stable the Phantom power is, and if the phantom power ramps up or bursts on.."
We need some electrical/electronic engineers to weigh in on that one!
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Post by mrholmes on May 22, 2021 9:44:49 GMT -6
What I have been told: "Depends on the preamp and how stable the Phantom power is, and if the phantom power ramps up or bursts on.." We need some electrical/electronic engineers to weigh in on that one!
I didn't expect this.... interesting.
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Post by drbill on May 22, 2021 9:49:59 GMT -6
I do. They get unplugged and put away too. For instant inspirational duties, I've got an old dynamic or two laying around. Good enough to get the idea done. My condensers from the 80's are still in great shape from the extra care.
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Post by svart on May 22, 2021 10:21:07 GMT -6
What I have been told: "Depends on the preamp and how stable the Phantom power is, and if the phantom power ramps up or bursts on.." We need some electrical/electronic engineers to weigh in on that one!
I didn't expect this.... interesting.
So what are we discussing exactly? If leaving the mics powered is detrimental to their lifespan? What's the difference between using a mic for 5000 hours and leaving one on for the same timespan? Or are we talking about turning on and off? Turning on and off phantom would be more stressful than leaving a mic on. The surge current through inductive lengths of cable could cause excessive voltage transients. Could. But if a mic can't take them, I say it wasn't designed properly anyway. On the other hand, have you ever heard of a massive amounts of mics being destroyed by phantom turning on and off? No? You would have if it were a problem! |
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Post by timcampbell on May 22, 2021 11:31:14 GMT -6
Well this question has been answered before for tube mics. By leaving them plugged in to phantom power you are essentially leaving their electronics powered on. What fails in microphones most?Capacitors which have a finite lifespan. What does polarization voltage do to a membrane? It makes it a magnet for dust.
Some electronics; like large format desks, benefit from being left on simply because if they are shut down and then powered up again it destroys lage amounts of components.
My suggestion would be to put your valuable condensers away and as Dr. Bill suggests just have a dynamic handy.
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Post by Guitar on May 22, 2021 11:39:17 GMT -6
I'd be more concerned about wasting energy, environmentalism, than any damage to the microphones. Tend to agree with svart's way of thinking.
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Post by svart on May 22, 2021 12:09:38 GMT -6
I still remember the days when turning off and on fluorescent lights wasted more power than just leaving then on for a while
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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 22, 2021 12:16:26 GMT -6
Well this question has been answered before for tube mics. By leaving them plugged in to phantom power you are essentially leaving their electronics powered on. What fails in microphones most?Capacitors which have a finite lifespan. What does polarization voltage do to a membrane? It makes it a magnet for dust. Some electronics; like large format desks, benefit from being left on simply because if they are shut down and then powered up again it destroys lage amounts of components. My suggestion would be to put your valuable condensers away and as Dr. Bill suggests just have a dynamic handy. What other types of electronics benefit from being left on? Obviously nothing with tubes, right? |
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Post by ragan on May 22, 2021 12:40:46 GMT -6
I don't like to overstress motors with start/stop so I leave my vacuum and lawn mower on all the time.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 22, 2021 13:02:06 GMT -6
I don't like to overstress motors with start/stop so I leave my vacuum and lawn mower on all the time. In college I had a Mercedes 300D that couldn’t really start in cold weather. I parked it in front of my dorm and ran it for 8 weeks straight with no discernible ill effects. Those engines are indestructible. |
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Post by svart on May 22, 2021 13:12:47 GMT -6
I don't like to overstress motors with start/stop so I leave my vacuum and lawn mower on all the time. In really cold climates they leave engines on. Some big rigs are run continuously, even during oil changes. Apples really don't taste like oranges and that makes me mad! |
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Post by ragan on May 22, 2021 13:17:17 GMT -6
I don't like to overstress motors with start/stop so I leave my vacuum and lawn mower on all the time. In college I had a Mercedes 300D that couldn’t really start in cold weather. I parked it in front of my dorm and ran it for 8 weeks straight with no discernible ill effects. Those engines are indestructible. Heheheh. Excellent. My buddy and I once bought a Subaru hatchback (with no windows!) for $300 and drove it to Mexico (from Washington state). It broke down a lot along the way. Learning about cars turned out to be a big part of that trip  . We were like 20 though and considered ourselves indestructible, so breakdowns, even in the middle of nowhere, didn't seem like a problem. No cell phones either! A month+ later when we were ready to head back north, we had it running pretty decently and were scared to turn it off so we kept it running for several days while we drove from the Baja back up to Seattle. |
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Post by timcampbell on May 22, 2021 13:45:31 GMT -6
Well I am in northern Norway often in the winter. I have a heater for my engine that is much cheaper than keep the engine running |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 22, 2021 13:59:59 GMT -6
Well I am in northern Norway often in the winter. I have a heater for my engine that is much cheaper than keep the engine running My old Benz was originally sold in Germany. It came with a heating block that plugged into any old electrical outlet. By the time I got it, 300,000 miles later, someone had converted it to US power supply and it worked great. Perfect for a high school kid in upstate NY. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 22, 2021 14:02:40 GMT -6
In college I had a Mercedes 300D that couldn’t really start in cold weather. I parked it in front of my dorm and ran it for 8 weeks straight with no discernible ill effects. Those engines are indestructible. Heheheh. Excellent. My buddy and I once bought a Subaru hatchback (with no windows!) for $300 and drove it to Mexico (from Washington state). It broke down *a lot* along the way. Learning about cars turned out to be a big part of that trip . We were like 20 though and considered ourselves indestructible, so breakdowns, even in the middle of nowhere, didn't seem like a problem. No cell phones either! A month+ later when we were ready to head back north, we had it running pretty decently and were scared to turn it off so we kept it running for several days while we drove from the Baja back up to Seattle. Oh yeah. Indestructible at that age. I was driving that same Benz on a solo tour. Between Memphis and Nashville a serious torrential downpour started. Buckets. Something must have fritzed out a fuse because the wipers died right there. What to do? Go buy some RainX and apply it. As long as I drove fast enough the water beaded right off. Got to Nashville on time! Perhaps the dumbest thing I’ve ever done. And that’s saying something. |
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Post by mrholmes on May 22, 2021 14:02:45 GMT -6
Well I am in northern Norway often in the winter. I have a heater for my engine that is much cheaper than keep the engine running
And more environmental friendly, which is a big topic for all of us.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 22, 2021 14:05:41 GMT -6
Well I am in northern Norway often in the winter. I have a heater for my engine that is much cheaper than keep the engine running
And more environmental friendly, which is a big topic for all of us.
That car was the least environmentally friendly thing ever created. But, I’ll say this. Microphones and cars. Buy German and you’ll never regret it. |
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Post by ragan on May 22, 2021 14:08:32 GMT -6
I've got an old International Scout II Diesel that I bought a block heater for. Never installed it though, the glow plugs do the trick, even in winter here, which isn't very extreme.
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Post by johneppstein on May 22, 2021 14:09:11 GMT -6
Well this question has been answered before for tube mics. By leaving them plugged in to phantom power you are essentially leaving their electronics powered on. What fails in microphones most?Capacitors which have a finite lifespan. What does polarization voltage do to a membrane? It makes it a magnet for dust. Some electronics; like large format desks, benefit from being left on simply because if they are shut down and then powered up again it destroys lage amounts of components. My suggestion would be to put your valuable condensers away and as Dr. Bill suggests just have a dynamic handy. What other types of electronics benefit from being left on? Obviously nothing with tubes, right? Er, no. Actually turning tubes on and off a lot wears them out much faster than leaving them on. Thermal cycling. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 22, 2021 14:10:41 GMT -6
I've got an old International Scout II Diesel that I bought a block heater for. Never installed it though, the glow plugs do the trick, even in winter here, which isn't very extreme. Love the Scouts! Those things go for a small fortune these days around here. I'm in Texas now so no more need for heating blocks. Bygone memories of youth. Now it's just burning out AC motors every couple of years. |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 22, 2021 14:12:19 GMT -6
What other types of electronics benefit from being left on? Obviously nothing with tubes, right? Er, no. Actually turning tubes on and off a lot wears them out much faster than leaving them on. Thermal cycling. Really? Oh, that's really good to know. So better to just turn them on and leave them on until I shut it down for the evening? Or just leave them on forever? That doesn't seem right, I've burned out amplifier tubes that way. |
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Post by ragan on May 22, 2021 14:13:03 GMT -6
I've got an old International Scout II Diesel that I bought a block heater for. Never installed it though, the glow plugs do the trick, even in winter here, which isn't very extreme. Love the Scouts! Those things go for a small fortune these days around here. I'm in Texas now so no more need for heating blocks. Bygone memories of youth. Now it's just burning out AC motors every couple of years. Yeah every once in awhile someone walking down my alley will try to buy it off me. It was my one cool 'young dude' car, it's not going anywhere. I used to keep the top off all summer long and drive around the mountains in central Washington where I grew up. I'm extremely nostalgic about that rig. |
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Post by johneppstein on May 22, 2021 14:20:16 GMT -6
Er, no. Actually turning tubes on and off a lot wears them out much faster than leaving them on. Thermal cycling. Really? Oh, that's really good to know. So better to just turn them on and leave them on until I shut it down for the evening? Or just leave them on forever? That doesn't seem right, I've burned out amplifier tubes that way. Turning tubes on and off causes metal fatique. Traditionally, commecial facilities that use tube gear leave it on all the time.
Think about radio stations - they NEVER go down. And remember that nearly all the tube gear used in recording was originally intended for broadcast applications, or was derived directly from such gear.
I don't leave mics powered all the time because of the dirt attraction factor, but one they're on they're generally on for the day.
I doubt that being powered on all the time killed your amp tubes. Were they NOS or new? If new I would assume that they just died. Many new tubes are somewhat less than reliable. I've had new tubes that lasted a couple weeks before blowing. grrr...
Driving the tubes really hard is worse for them than never turning them off.
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Post by gravesnumber9 on May 22, 2021 14:24:51 GMT -6
Really? Oh, that's really good to know. So better to just turn them on and leave them on until I shut it down for the evening? Or just leave them on forever? That doesn't seem right, I've burned out amplifier tubes that way. Turning tubes on and off causes metal fatique. Traditionally, commecial facilities that use tube gear leave it on all the time.
Think about radio stations - they NEVER go down. And remember that nearly all the tube gear used in recording was originally intended for broadcast applications, or was derived directly from such gear.
I don't leave mics powered all the time because of the dirt attraction factor, but one they're on they're generally on for the day.
So I've been turning my Audioscape OptoComp on and off a few times during the day depending on if it's in the signal chain or not. Sounds like that's not smart. What about things like the RND 535? I turn those off too when not in use because they run at about 10000 degrees. So I assumed it would extend their life by not running them all day long. Am I backwards on that too? |
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. We were like 20 though and considered ourselves indestructible, so breakdowns, even in the middle of nowhere, didn't seem like a problem. No cell phones either! 