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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 24, 2021 11:06:12 GMT -6
Based on these 2 examples, I don't really like the Helios. I mean, it has a nice openness to it, but it is bringing too much resonances on the upper mids. Compared to the Neve here, it sounds a bit cheap. Funny enough, I love UAD Helios and the Eq. I also really liked the first video showing this new models, so maybe it's just something dependent to the source. I mean, cheap is kind’ve hyperbolic. I can make them sound indistinguishable with a little tank of 1.2 and 8… When I think back on it, I never used it without the eq, so maybe I never really knew what the pre without the eq actually sounded like lol.
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Post by phantom on Feb 24, 2021 11:13:17 GMT -6
Based on these 2 examples, I don't really like the Helios. I mean, it has a nice openness to it, but it is bringing too much resonances on the upper mids. Compared to the Neve here, it sounds a bit cheap. Funny enough, I love UAD Helios and the Eq. I also really liked the first video showing this new models, so maybe it's just something dependent to the source. I mean, cheap is kind’ve hyperbolic. I can make them sound indistinguishable with a little tank of 1.2 and 8… When I think back on it, I never used it without the eq, so maybe I never really knew what the pre without the eq actually sounded like lol. Sorry, cheap in regard to the resonant upper mid. At the same time, it does have a nice texture and openness that is nothing cheap. But this hi-mid is just hard to swallow to me. I would love to hear both processed. The Helios would need some taming and the Neve could use a bit of air, for example. Some equipments really shine after some small adjustments.
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Post by Ward on Feb 24, 2021 11:13:25 GMT -6
I hear that Helios 'sparkle'! Not ass much as the audioscape V69EQ will have but it's still there!
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 24, 2021 12:09:42 GMT -6
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 24, 2021 12:11:34 GMT -6
Really makes me want a pair of the EQs...
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 24, 2021 12:21:17 GMT -6
Really makes me want a pair of the EQs... Wait...maybe I should just use the UAD one lol. What a concept
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Post by matt@IAA on Feb 24, 2021 12:58:25 GMT -6
It’s almost as if the unit should be a mic pre and EQ in one.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 24, 2021 21:00:44 GMT -6
It’s almost as if the unit should be a mic pre and EQ in one. Hey - so on your Helios clone you’re making - you mentioned it didn’t have an output transformer, but a buffer…which is like the original I believe. If you were explaining this to a five year old, how would you say that affects the sound? We’re the headroom issues (clipping) on the Arny units the result of not having an output transformer? That doesn’t make sense to my 5 year old brain because it’s the input transformer that is responsible for headroom, right?
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 24, 2021 21:01:41 GMT -6
ragan wanted to make sure you heard this.
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Post by matt@IAA on Feb 24, 2021 21:24:31 GMT -6
Hey - so on your Helios clone you’re making - you mentioned it didn’t have an output transformer, but a buffer…which is like the original I believe. If you were explaining this to a five year old, how would you say that affects the sound? We’re the headroom issues (clipping) on the Arny units the result of not having an output transformer? That doesn’t make sense to my 5 year old brain because it’s the input transformer that is responsible for headroom, right? The original had neither the output transformer or a buffer. Three transistors for the preamp, one transistor for the high pass, and again three more for the makeup gain for the EQ. Input transformer will limit headroom in mic pre mode, but not line (it is bypassed in line). But, input transformer headroom limit is not the "sound" of the clipping. That's the transistors all the way. Just the way the circuit is, it is "wrong". The three transistor amp of the original didn't have much drive capacity. A buffer gives you more drive. The H2 design uses both a buffer and a transformer. It is 3 transistor mic pre -> 1 transistor high pass filter -> buffer -> transformer. If they are using the transformer as a 1:2 step up, that would give you 6 dB of headroom. If not, the transformer just balances. Can't tell from the pics what they're doing. A CMOQ2S will add low end and some low mid distortion, especially at higher levels. It is what Cinemag recommends for their API 312 style circuits. A class A buffer should not add much tone in and of itself.
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Post by ragan on Feb 24, 2021 23:45:56 GMT -6
ragan wanted to make sure you heard this. I did listen real quick, thanks for posting. I still kinda prefer the Helios on the guitars. Both sound good though. It's kind of funny, because I'm pretty much always drawn to the Neve footprint. The only 'good' pres I've got are the Great River MP-2NV and the Stam 1073MPA, and I love them. Maybe it's the novelty of something different but I like what the Helios sounds like in your clips. Less mask or something. That the Stam with EQ or without? I'll listen more/more carefully to these when I get a minute. I'll download and throw em in the DAW.
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Post by roundbadge on Feb 25, 2021 0:07:39 GMT -6
Based on these 2 examples, I don't really like the Helios. I mean, it has a nice openness to it, but it is bringing too much resonances on the upper mids. Compared to the Neve here, it sounds a bit cheap. Funny enough, I love UAD Helios and the Eq. I also really liked the first video showing this new models, so maybe it's just something dependent to the source. yep.the upper mids bugged me too. I put John's voice examples through my API console,added some nice light compression and a real EMT 140 just to see how both files hung.pulled some upper mids w/ the fab proq-3.even added a little 100hz with a Capi lc25 eq to the helios file.walked around my room for a while with both clips back to back looped. I still prefer the Neve.more weight and heft on the lower part of his voice along with a more focused balanced sound esp in the mid/upper mids. I heard the exact same difference a few days ago with another buddy singing through a BAE 1073 then the H2 500 with a u67. I'm still holding any final judgement until I hear the full sized modules on different sources
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Post by roundbadge on Feb 25, 2021 1:12:21 GMT -6
Cool. The H2 sounds nice on AG.
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Post by phantom on Feb 25, 2021 6:54:16 GMT -6
Sounds better here. But still has some problems.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 25, 2021 9:33:16 GMT -6
Gonna wait to get the eq and see what I think.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,009
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Post by ericn on Feb 25, 2021 10:30:12 GMT -6
I hear the sparkle but I’m not wowed at this point
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Post by nobtwiddler on Feb 25, 2021 13:36:17 GMT -6
I still think the Helios on the AQ tracks is a bit more REAL, for lack of s better term. Don't like the stereo-ized tracks though!
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Post by kaleida on Feb 25, 2021 16:19:17 GMT -6
I hear the sparkle but I’m not wowed at this point I have to agree. I was more impressed by the EQ in the VK video, so I’ll be curious to hear that. It’s a very aggressive EQ - when I had one of the old 500 series units, I tested via PluginDoctor and was surprised to find that the mid band has a very tight Q compared to say Neve or API. And obviously the 2db stepped high band gets heavy handed fast. I recall liking the woody, clear tone of the pre, but what made it special to me was the almost fuzz like distortion when cranked combined with the EQ - things got gnarly fast (in a good way).
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 25, 2021 16:50:50 GMT -6
I still think the Helios on the AQ tracks is a bit more REAL, for lack of s better term. Don't like the stereo-ized tracks though! Well, that could be because of my sloppy playing.
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 13, 2021 14:26:11 GMT -6
So…I’m a little annoyed. I ordered the 500 series pre and eq at the same time from Vintage King. The pre arrived (a week and a half after it was supposed to) around the 22nd of Feb. The eq was going to be delayed until the middle to end of March. So - now they’re telling me my 30 day return window on the pre ends March 23rd. So I literally might not have the opportunity to try the pre and eq out together before The window for the pre is done. I have to say - I’m not particularly blown away with the pre - but I’ve also never used a Helios without the eq being part of the circuit…so before giving up on the thing, I really kind’ve wanted to know what they sounded like together. But if it comes down to it, I’m just going to return the pre…and maybe cancel the whole order.
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Post by the other mark williams on Mar 13, 2021 14:33:57 GMT -6
So…I’m a little annoyed. I ordered the 500 series pre and eq at the same time from Vintage King. The pre arrived (a week and a half after it was supposed to) around the 22nd of Feb. The eq was going to be delayed until the middle to end of March. So - now they’re telling me my 30 day return window on the pre ends March 23rd. So I literally might not have the opportunity to try the pre and eq out together before The window for the pre is done. I have to say - I’m not particularly blown away with the pre - but I’ve also never used a Helios without the eq being part of the circuit…so before giving up on the thing, I really kind’ve wanted to know what they sounded like together. But if it comes down to it, I’m just going to return the pre…and maybe cancel the whole order. VK might be willing to extend your return window based on you having to wait for the EQ, John. Might be worth asking...
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Post by Guitar on Mar 13, 2021 14:59:24 GMT -6
I think I kind of like the Helios here. It brings out the pick attack big time, compared to the 1073, that's something I enjoy, a nice strummy, plucky sound.
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Post by nobtwiddler on Mar 13, 2021 15:01:06 GMT -6
Yeah, John, VK should extend the demo for ya, because of the particular circumstances... If they don't then (*^#)_ them~!
Or if need be, I can call my uncle Carmine, then I'm sure they will extend the demo!
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Post by phantom on Mar 13, 2021 18:21:30 GMT -6
I'm sure they will understand if you explain the situation.
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Post by srb on Mar 13, 2021 20:03:11 GMT -6
I'd like to think they would have anticipated your delimma.
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