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Post by gwlee7 on Jan 22, 2021 19:18:35 GMT -6
Yes, and that generation is 12 year olds. I can't imagine being 12 and somehow convincing my mom I needed some $29 waves plugin. Back in my day, we just cracked that shit! 😂😂 When I was 12, my grandmother was buying me Alice Cooper (the band, not the guy) albums after we went out to eat.
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Post by spindrift on Jan 22, 2021 19:48:01 GMT -6
I once had a guy with a set budget for an album, he was gonna cut whatever corners to hit that mark. Turned out most of the musicians were his students, most could barely play. Except the quartet of symphony players he paid to come in. He handed them charts....they played....the charts were wrong..... He hit his budget mark and stopped...then he put it out, just like it was. If ida known.... ...as you can guess, he made sure to let me know later he'd found a better cheaper studio that knew how to record more as he liked it....just amazing. Sounds like a win- win for both of you! This is absolutely the reply for Doug to give to a douche remark such as: “I found a cheaper place man.” Pearls/Swine.
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Post by jmoose on Jan 25, 2021 19:16:32 GMT -6
From low end gear to low end musicians... quite a journey eh?
Early in my career when I first hung out a shingle as a "studio for hire" I certainly recorded a bunch of crappy music. I never resented it and instead, viewed those situations as an opportunity.
When I got a crappy punk band or whatever it was a perfect, low pressure opportunity to experiment without penalty. I would try all sorts of goofy mic choices and positions... endless processing choices & crazy effects.
My thought was hey, most likely nobody's ever going to hear this. And if they do hear it and like it that's still a win.
On the flip side when I had good, more experienced players I'd play it safe and make the conservative choices. Don't fuck up!
But the other stuff? Anything goes. And if I did something that was cool and worked it'd get added to my bag of tricks. Other times it was note to self... that sucked. Don't try it again.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Jan 25, 2021 20:12:27 GMT -6
I don’t mind crappy music. I’ve sat through plenty of sessions where I had absolutely no interest in the music but always found something I could learn or take away from the situation.
I do however mind crappy music and crappy musicians that think they can do your job better than you can, or who treat you like a button pusher and stand over your shoulder telling you what to do. I’ll take that from an experienced producer any day, just not from Joe Schmo.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 26, 2021 0:18:51 GMT -6
I don’t mind crappy music. I’ve sat through plenty of sessions where I had absolutely no interest in the music but always found something I could learn or take away from the situation. I do however mind crappy music and crappy musicians that think they can do your job better than you can, or who treat you like a button pusher and stand over your shoulder telling you what to do. I’ll take that from an experienced producer any day, just not from Joe Schmo. Both of these resonate deeply with me.
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Post by drbill on Jan 27, 2021 10:42:10 GMT -6
From low end gear to low end musicians... quite a journey eh? Early in my career when I first hung out a shingle as a "studio for hire" I certainly recorded a bunch of crappy music. I never resented it and instead, viewed those situations as an opportunity. When I got a crappy punk band or whatever it was a perfect, low pressure opportunity to experiment without penalty. I would try all sorts of goofy mic choices and positions... endless processing choices & crazy effects. My thought was hey, most likely nobody's ever going to hear this. And if they do hear it and like it that's still a win. On the flip side when I had good, more experienced players I'd play it safe and make the conservative choices. Don't fuck up! But the other stuff? Anything goes. And if I did something that was cool and worked it'd get added to my bag of tricks. Other times it was note to self... that sucked. Don't try it again. That's a great perspective to have!!
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jan 27, 2021 14:13:37 GMT -6
Lowend theory really doesn’t exist today because you can make a decent album with even the cheapest gear today. Us old timers remember the the days of Cassette 4 tracks and 8 tracks, let me make John Epstein, DrBill, Bob O and Donr Shutter, Fostex X15, X15, X15 ! Yep the audio horror equivalent to Beatle Juice! Everybody says you can’t tell the difference, of course in this case “everyone “ means graduates of the school for the deaf. Your worst new interface will eat a Digidesign 888 for lunch, yet think of all the hits done on 888’s! We live in a world of stupid though, I saw Teacher Model sell on EBay for over $500 yet a Carvin 1688 sits there, in 1987 I would have given you my model 5 plus 500 for the Carvin and still thought I ripped you off. I guess the sound of self noise is fashionable!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2021 14:51:13 GMT -6
From low end gear to low end musicians... quite a journey eh? Early in my career when I first hung out a shingle as a "studio for hire" I certainly recorded a bunch of crappy music. I never resented it and instead, viewed those situations as an opportunity. When I got a crappy punk band or whatever it was a perfect, low pressure opportunity to experiment without penalty. I would try all sorts of goofy mic choices and positions... endless processing choices & crazy effects. My thought was hey, most likely nobody's ever going to hear this. And if they do hear it and like it that's still a win. On the flip side when I had good, more experienced players I'd play it safe and make the conservative choices. Don't fuck up! But the other stuff? Anything goes. And if I did something that was cool and worked it'd get added to my bag of tricks. Other times it was note to self... that sucked. Don't try it again. That’s one of the reasons most of the coolest sounding records from 25-40 years ago were low budget! The problem is many of these modern guys don’t want to sound interesting and stand out. They want to sound the same as everybody else to fit in. They’re 25-35 going on 15.
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Post by jmoose on Jan 27, 2021 18:23:16 GMT -6
That's a great perspective to have!! Yup! Its based on a piece of advice someone gave me real early in my career & sticks with me today. "If you can't make it sound good at least make it sound interesting." And you'd think there's a dig in there but there isn't... I started off as an assistant/staff engineer at a studio that had, without getting into name dropping... some heavy hitters coming through. After graduating from intern to staff engineer I started getting all the "local band" sessions that the chief didn't want to do. Not that at 19 or 20 I had any idea of how to get sounds together but I had a solid technical knowledge of how things worked. One of those early sessions came in the midst of a label project taking a break for a week or two. When they came back the producer on that asked how my session went and I pulled out the DAT copy... he's listening and we're talking, going through questions & whatnot. Specifically, he made the comment based on an acoustic guitar. The kid who came in had a super crappy acoustic. It was like a Ibanez or Charvel or something probably with dead strings too. Not an excellent sounding guitar by any stretch. I put him in front of whatever nice mic, like an 87 or 414 and tried to make it sound nice. In reality what I had was an excellent recording of a really shitty guitar. His advice was that since it was a terrible sound to start with, rather then try and make it pristine maybe I should've used a 57 and smashed it through the MXR flanger. Run the pickup through a guitar amp and record that... Since its never going to sound like a killer Martin then try anything else except the standard safe route.
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Post by mrholmes on Jan 27, 2021 22:13:48 GMT -6
From low end gear to low end musicians... quite a journey eh? Early in my career when I first hung out a shingle as a "studio for hire" I certainly recorded a bunch of crappy music. I never resented it and instead, viewed those situations as an opportunity. When I got a crappy punk band or whatever it was a perfect, low pressure opportunity to experiment without penalty. I would try all sorts of goofy mic choices and positions... endless processing choices & crazy effects. My thought was hey, most likely nobody's ever going to hear this. And if they do hear it and like it that's still a win. On the flip side when I had good, more experienced players I'd play it safe and make the conservative choices. Don't fuck up! But the other stuff? Anything goes. And if I did something that was cool and worked it'd get added to my bag of tricks. Other times it was note to self... that sucked. Don't try it again. That’s one of the reasons most of the coolest sounding records from 25-40 years ago were low budget! The problem is many of these modern guys don’t want to sound interesting and stand out. They want to sound the same as everybody else to fit in. They’re 25-35 going on 15. I repeat myself just to remind myself. If the invention of the DAW is not seen as invitation for experiments, it limits my creativity. One more famous question on GS was „would have the Beatles used digital“ background- can I sound like the Fab Four with my damn computer. I am still waiting for that kid with a total new mind blowing song/sound telling us he did it when school was over on his mum’s MacBook Pro.
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Post by soundintheround on Jan 27, 2021 22:14:46 GMT -6
Just because something sounds good, doesn’t mean it is a quality product. A lot more goes into both instruments and gear than just the sound IMO.
Apollo to me is still an pro-sumer device. (Admitingly I do have 3 Apollo’s) .
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Post by soundintheround on Jan 27, 2021 22:17:05 GMT -6
Lowend theory really doesn’t exist today because you can make a decent album with even the cheapest gear today. Us old timers remember the the days of Cassette 4 tracks and 8 tracks, let me make John Epstein, DrBill, Bob O and Donr Shutter, Fostex X15, X15, X15 ! Yep the audio horror equivalent to Beatle Juice! Everybody says you can’t tell the difference, of course in this case “everyone “ means graduates of the school for the deaf. Your worst new interface will eat a Digidesign 888 for lunch, yet think of all the hits done on 888’s! We live in a world of stupid though, I saw Teacher Model sell on EBay for over $500 yet a Carvin 1688 sits there, in 1987 I would have given you my model 5 plus 500 for the Carvin and still thought I ripped you off. I guess the sound of self noise is fashionable! Funny because it seems all the ‘coolest’ indie records today are being made on those 4 tracks and crappy early 80’s gear. That’s the sound man, not a nice clean Apollo recording...(unless your doing hiphop)
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Post by soundintheround on Jan 27, 2021 23:16:51 GMT -6
I think the trend lately tho is more so rediscovering you can actually create music outside of a computer. People are resonating with that it seems!....at least in certain groups of music.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2021 0:04:35 GMT -6
Lowend theory really doesn’t exist today because you can make a decent album with even the cheapest gear today. Us old timers remember the the days of Cassette 4 tracks and 8 tracks, let me make John Epstein, DrBill, Bob O and Donr Shutter, Fostex X15, X15, X15 ! Yep the audio horror equivalent to Beatle Juice! Everybody says you can’t tell the difference, of course in this case “everyone “ means graduates of the school for the deaf. Your worst new interface will eat a Digidesign 888 for lunch, yet think of all the hits done on 888’s! We live in a world of stupid though, I saw Teacher Model sell on EBay for over $500 yet a Carvin 1688 sits there, in 1987 I would have given you my model 5 plus 500 for the Carvin and still thought I ripped you off. I guess the sound of self noise is fashionable! Funny because it seems all the ‘coolest’ indie records today are being made on those 4 tracks and crappy early 80’s gear. That’s the sound man, not a nice clean Apollo recording...(unless your doing hiphop) Yep but they’re not cool. They’re trying to co-opt a past almost outsider art aesthetic with lamer music. These past artists did not want to sound that way. Circumstance forced them to record on cassettes and in cheap studios. If they had a job, they could not buy affordable professional gear; they could buy a Tascam. Their music had an edge to it that made the suits not see it as commercially viable. They had to self-dub and distribute cassettes and new labels were founded often only to release one record the founder believed in that everybody else had passed on. Almost everything was eventually watered down and commercially co-opted. These current lofi artists have money but are deliberately trying to sound bad. They’ll drop a thousand bucks on a working Portastudio, Akai, or Boss sampler instead of just using a a Focusrite, getting real gear, or going to a studio. Usually it’s because without copying the lo-fi aesthetics, their music wouldn’t be accepted at all as part of the genre. They want acceptance. Meanwhile the 80s artists usually record cleaner now and their music fits in perfectly with the genre even if it sounds tired or too slick. The most out there stuff now is usually done on low-end, low detail interfaces with that clean but not clear sound from the cheapest possible parts. Those are the true modern day Tascams. If it’s done in a studio, it’s usually with the most workhorse gear around. Then add a bunch of production mishaps (like the 80s bands) that the careful vintage lofi aesthetic groups avoid. Some of the most aggressive metal I’ve heard recently was entirely done on Steinbergs. Rap and electronic stuff? USB mics.
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Post by mrholmes on Jan 28, 2021 4:31:27 GMT -6
Just because something sounds good, doesn’t mean it is a quality product. A lot more goes into both instruments and gear than just the sound IMO. Apollo to me is still an pro-sumer device. (Admitingly I do have 3 Apollo’s) .
That's one of my limiting beliefs I mentioned above. If an Apollo is not good enough - what is it, Burl or Lavry-Gold?
Do I create much better music (in its inner substance/core) with better converters? For me the answer is no, when I start with this belief-system I can find a hundred other stones which I could turn.
I am not a tech but from a spec standpoint is any prosumer converter better than any tape machine. My mentor, for example, shows no love for the nostalgic going back mentality. He hates real tape machines, and never wants to go back. He hates to tell the stories when there was hum out of a sudden and there was downtime - sometimes for days. In other words he loves digital, it's a logical consequence for him
His songs in 2021 do sound the same compared to the ones he did behind big consoles in the 80s, but his setup is a lot smaller/simpler today.
It's no longer the gear that limits me, it's my own self-fulfilling prophecy that I can't start doing stuff, because the gear is not good enough for what I do. Where does thoughts like this came from? For me, it had two components:
1. I can feel kinda special because my music is so great, that the best gear is not good enough.
2. I had a reason to avoid doing stuff, avoiding judgement by others.
3. Making the decision to create here and now, not being attached to what I could do if I just would own XYZ----
This makes kinda happy, because being creative is bliss, pure LOVE and a gift from the universe.
Last but not least no one will say WoW, he mixed this song at his best friends NEVE in studio above the street where he lives. The new cool is. Damn he did it on the LAPTOP under cans.
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Post by drbill on Jan 28, 2021 8:07:07 GMT -6
It's no longer the gear that limits me, it's my own self-fulfilling prophecy that I can't start doing stuff, because the gear is not good enough for what I do. Where does thoughts like this came from? For me, it had two components:
1. I can feel kinda special because my music is so great, that the best gear is not good enough.
2. I had a reason to avoid doing stuff, avoiding judgement by others.
3. Making the decision to create here and now, not being attached to what I could do if I just would own XYZ----
This makes kinda happy, because being creative is bliss, pure LOVE and a gift from the universe.
Last but not least no one will say WoW, he mixed this song at his best friends NEVE in studio above the street where he lives. The new cool is. Damn he did it on the LAPTOP under cans.
I never really felt 1 before. But 2 and ESPECIALLY 3 are very real. And for me, they've been around for decades. At least back into the mid 80's. I can't tell you how long 3 stopped me dead in my tracks. Glad that for the most part I've left these hindrances behind. Great observation. Crappy gear leads you to creative solutions that you wouldn't have found without the crappy gear. My goal is to never let gear - or lack thereof - slow me down. Find a way.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 28, 2021 9:32:52 GMT -6
The other side of that idea is when you've had lots of experience in great studios with beautiful sounding rooms, classic analogue boards, plenty of outboard and great mics. Trying to emulate that quality at home made it difficult for me to produce my recent album. I was always well aware it didn't quite sound "right". I plowed ahead anyway and managed to produce a satisfying album, but I never did get past wishing for a little easier time with my gear.
In the late 80's I had worked in proper studios often and had my own home studio for smaller jobs. In my home studio I had everything I needed. Tape recorders, Lexicon reverbs and delays, DBX compressors, Neumann mics, a 16 channel board, Kurzweil and Emus Proteus and passive monitoring. Everything sounded good then. I never spent one minute on gear issues, unlike the constant computers, plug-ins and DAW issues, only on music.
After selling everything, leaving the music business and returning in 2012 things had changed. There were many good mic options not as expensive as a Neumann, plugins offered compression and reverb, speakers had amps built in, and tape was no longer necessary. It should have been a freeing experience, but it was far from it. Time spent learning a DAW and getting plug-ins to work was brutal.
It would all have been fine if it sounded as good or better than my old analogue rig did. But it didn't, so that led me down the digital rabbit hole of trying to get different mics, plugs, anything to get better sound.
Now, could a great album be done on a $150 interface with an SM57, of course it's possible, almost probable. But, for me to get where I want to be with my productions, I would need to get closer to where I used to be. A couple of Neumann mics, an LA2A or CL1b, Bricasti reverb, Lexicon delay, ATC monitors, maybe an API board, maybe just a Dangerous Music 2 Bus +.
The problem is I don't make enough from my music work to afford that, so I end up chasing my own tail trying to get that kind of sound quality at a lower cost. It hasn't worked yet.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 28, 2021 9:42:49 GMT -6
Martin I think your tracks always sound really good. I think you're doing well with what you have.
Although I totally understand the idea of chasing an ideal, I guess that's how people get better.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 28, 2021 9:50:05 GMT -6
Thanks Monkeyxx! It is of course the performance that matters most.
All I hope for is to get a couple of steps further along than I am. I don't need ten compressors, dozens of mics, etc., just a few key pieces of higher quality to reach my own benchmark of good quality.
Guys like John Kennedy and cowboycoalminer have managed to do it. I think the sound of all their productions is in the really good sound quality class, good enough to release and be proud of your work.
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Post by soundintheround on Jan 28, 2021 11:58:44 GMT -6
Just because something sounds good, doesn’t mean it is a quality product. A lot more goes into both instruments and gear than just the sound IMO. Apollo to me is still an pro-sumer device. (Admitingly I do have 3 Apollo’s) .
That's one of my limiting beliefs I mentioned above. If an Apollo is not good enough - what is it, Burl or Lavry-Gold?
Do I create much better music (in its inner substance/core) with better converters? For me the answer is no, when I start with this belief-system I can find a hundred other stones which I could turn.
I am not a tech but from a spec standpoint is any prosumer converter better than any tape machine. My mentor, for example, shows no love for the nostalgic going back mentality. He hates real tape machines, and never wants to go back. He hates to tell the stories when there was hum out of a sudden and there was downtime - sometimes for days. In other words he loves digital, it's a logical consequence for him
His songs in 2021 do sound the same compared to the ones he did behind big consoles in the 80s, but his setup is a lot smaller/simpler today.
It's no longer the gear that limits me, it's my own self-fulfilling prophecy that I can't start doing stuff, because the gear is not good enough for what I do. Where does thoughts like this came from? For me, it had two components:
1. I can feel kinda special because my music is so great, that the best gear is not good enough.
2. I had a reason to avoid doing stuff, avoiding judgement by others.
3. Making the decision to create here and now, not being attached to what I could do if I just would own XYZ----
This makes kinda happy, because being creative is bliss, pure LOVE and a gift from the universe.
Last but not least no one will say WoW, he mixed this song at his best friends NEVE in studio above the street where he lives. The new cool is. Damn he did it on the LAPTOP under cans.
No I'm more-so just referring to the many OTHER factors that go into products...that don't necessarily have to do with the sound. Say if someone was building a Professional Recording Studio, I'd probably recommend a Pro-Tools rig and some converter using the OEM recommended interfaces/etc. Those systems are built for 99.9999% reliability, have the support, infrastructure and are catered to people doing that type of a thing for a living. Apollo you have to deal with a user-base who is more concerned about 'musician's or hobby-ist needs'...not so much a Recording Engineer. Yes these extra Pro-Tools costs might seem ridiculous for most, and some of the converters might not even sound as good as say an Apollo...but it is still a high-end system from a professional standpoint. Another example could be the Behringer Minimoog clone vs a Moog MiniMoog re-issue....or any of the cheap clones out there. Similar sound and components in some respects, but totally different High-End vs. Low-End approach. To me the Moog product is infinitely higher-end and IMO more useable, than the Behringer. That being said...you dont necessarily need a professional environment to make good music these days that is absolutely true. Hits can be done on an Apollo twin, Laptop and SM7.....however that doesn't mean that there is still a difference out there between High-End Professional and Low-End gear. I;m basically just ranting at this point...but anyways
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Post by soundintheround on Jan 28, 2021 12:10:12 GMT -6
Funny because it seems all the ‘coolest’ indie records today are being made on those 4 tracks and crappy early 80’s gear. That’s the sound man, not a nice clean Apollo recording...(unless your doing hiphop) Yep but they’re not cool. They’re trying to co-opt a past almost outsider art aesthetic with lamer music. These past artists did not want to sound that way. Circumstance forced them to record on cassettes and in cheap studios. If they had a job, they could not buy affordable professional gear; they could buy a Tascam. Their music had an edge to it that made the suits not see it as commercially viable. They had to self-dub and distribute cassettes and new labels were founded often only to release one record the founder believed in that everybody else had passed on. Almost everything was eventually watered down and commercially co-opted. These current lofi artists have money but are deliberately trying to sound bad. They’ll drop a thousand bucks on a working Portastudio, Akai, or Boss sampler instead of just using a a Focusrite, getting real gear, or going to a studio. Usually it’s because without copying the lo-fi aesthetics, their music wouldn’t be accepted at all as part of the genre. They want acceptance. Meanwhile the 80s artists usually record cleaner now and their music fits in perfectly with the genre even if it sounds tired or too slick. The most out there stuff now is usually done on low-end, low detail interfaces with that clean but not clear sound from the cheapest possible parts. Those are the true modern day Tascams. If it’s done in a studio, it’s usually with the most workhorse gear around. Then add a bunch of production mishaps (like the 80s bands) that the careful vintage lofi aesthetic groups avoid. Some of the most aggressive metal I’ve heard recently was entirely done on Steinbergs. Rap and electronic stuff? USB mics. Interesting perspective, and I pretty much agree....but also I think there are different degrees of 'lo-fi'. Not everyone out there necessarily trying to make it sound like complete crap, just using some older gear, to bypass the need to add 80 plugins on a mix. I think most can agree no matter what genre.....music 'as we know it' and enjoy listening to, has distortion and is not completely clean. Unless you are a fan of classical or something along those lines.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 28, 2021 15:23:09 GMT -6
That's one of my limiting beliefs I mentioned above. If an Apollo is not good enough - what is it, Burl or Lavry-Gold?
Do I create much better music (in its inner substance/core) with better converters? For me the answer is no, when I start with this belief-system I can find a hundred other stones which I could turn.
I am not a tech but from a spec standpoint is any prosumer converter better than any tape machine. My mentor, for example, shows no love for the nostalgic going back mentality. He hates real tape machines, and never wants to go back. He hates to tell the stories when there was hum out of a sudden and there was downtime - sometimes for days. In other words he loves digital, it's a logical consequence for him
His songs in 2021 do sound the same compared to the ones he did behind big consoles in the 80s, but his setup is a lot smaller/simpler today.
It's no longer the gear that limits me, it's my own self-fulfilling prophecy that I can't start doing stuff, because the gear is not good enough for what I do. Where does thoughts like this came from? For me, it had two components:
1. I can feel kinda special because my music is so great, that the best gear is not good enough.
2. I had a reason to avoid doing stuff, avoiding judgement by others.
3. Making the decision to create here and now, not being attached to what I could do if I just would own XYZ----
This makes kinda happy, because being creative is bliss, pure LOVE and a gift from the universe.
Last but not least no one will say WoW, he mixed this song at his best friends NEVE in studio above the street where he lives. The new cool is. Damn he did it on the LAPTOP under cans.
No I'm more-so just referring to the many OTHER factors that go into products...that don't necessarily have to do with the sound. Say if someone was building a Professional Recording Studio, I'd probably recommend a Pro-Tools rig and some converter using the OEM recommended interfaces/etc. Those systems are built for 99.9999% reliability, have the support, infrastructure and are catered to people doing that type of a thing for a living. Apollo you have to deal with a user-base who is more concerned about 'musician's or hobby-ist needs'...not so much a Recording Engineer. Yes these extra Pro-Tools costs might seem ridiculous for most, and some of the converters might not even sound as good as say an Apollo...but it is still a high-end system from a professional standpoint. Another example could be the Behringer Minimoog clone vs a Moog MiniMoog re-issue....or any of the cheap clones out there. Similar sound and components in some respects, but totally different High-End vs. Low-End approach. To me the Moog product is infinitely higher-end and IMO more useable, than the Behringer. That being said...you dont necessarily need a professional environment to make good music these days that is absolutely true. Hits can be done on an Apollo twin, Laptop and SM7.....however that doesn't mean that there is still a difference out there between High-End Professional and Low-End gear. I;m basically just ranting at this point...but anyways To me that sounds like sort of "What's expected" rather than "what's really needed." People have this herd mentality and want to fit in a certain perceived role, even with gear. There are very many "professional" studios with Apollos, so you would have to say Apollo is a "professional" interface. Big rooms in LA, and etc. The Pro Tools thing is just what "professionals" have been using for a long time, so it's easier to share sessions with other workers and so on, it's an agreed upon standard. However there are "professionals" using Cubase, Logic, and Ableton, etc, etc, so it goes out the window once again. From what I can tell, the biggest concern with "pro" gear is build quality and reliability. Anything that needs to be depended on day in and day out, without getting a wonky knob or whatever. And then of course the type of place that wants the top quality, at any price. Obviously there is plenty of gear that caters to that exact market. The only thing a "professional" does is make money. So if you are making money on music, good for you, buy great gear, it makes total sense. It's part of the actual job. The behringer vs Moog thing is interesting because they sound extremely similar. But the Behringer is trashy and feels bad. The interface is bad, poor feel and layout. So once again, it's a build quality issue more than the sound, like you were saying. You could get a good distance with a $100 plugin too, but those aren't as fun and tactile. On the other hand, my plugins get used every week, and my Moog hasn't been turned on in almost a year. I have a Slim Phatty. Hey, professionals use plugins too, it's part of the job now.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jan 28, 2021 15:35:59 GMT -6
Yep but they’re not cool. They’re trying to co-opt a past almost outsider art aesthetic with lamer music. These past artists did not want to sound that way. Circumstance forced them to record on cassettes and in cheap studios. If they had a job, they could not buy affordable professional gear; they could buy a Tascam. Their music had an edge to it that made the suits not see it as commercially viable. They had to self-dub and distribute cassettes and new labels were founded often only to release one record the founder believed in that everybody else had passed on. Almost everything was eventually watered down and commercially co-opted. These current lofi artists have money but are deliberately trying to sound bad. They’ll drop a thousand bucks on a working Portastudio, Akai, or Boss sampler instead of just using a a Focusrite, getting real gear, or going to a studio. Usually it’s because without copying the lo-fi aesthetics, their music wouldn’t be accepted at all as part of the genre. They want acceptance. Meanwhile the 80s artists usually record cleaner now and their music fits in perfectly with the genre even if it sounds tired or too slick. The most out there stuff now is usually done on low-end, low detail interfaces with that clean but not clear sound from the cheapest possible parts. Those are the true modern day Tascams. If it’s done in a studio, it’s usually with the most workhorse gear around. Then add a bunch of production mishaps (like the 80s bands) that the careful vintage lofi aesthetic groups avoid. Some of the most aggressive metal I’ve heard recently was entirely done on Steinbergs. Rap and electronic stuff? USB mics. Interesting perspective, and I pretty much agree....but also I think there are different degrees of 'lo-fi'. Not everyone out there necessarily trying to make it sound like complete crap, just using some older gear, to bypass the need to add 80 plugins on a mix. I think most can agree no matter what genre.....music 'as we know it' and enjoy listening to, has distortion and is not completely clean. Unless you are a fan of classical or something along those lines. And those interfaces have AES I/O so you add a couple of really nice ch of AD/ DA for those very special tracks and monitoring. Not saying the current crop of AviD HDX boxes are bad, just that Something like my Mytek is that good😁
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Post by mrholmes on Jan 28, 2021 15:50:28 GMT -6
The other side of that idea is when you've had lots of experience in great studios with beautiful sounding rooms, classic analogue boards, plenty of outboard and great mics. Trying to emulate that quality at home made it difficult for me to produce my recent album. I was always well aware it didn't quite sound "right". I plowed ahead anyway and managed to produce a satisfying album, but I never did get past wishing for a little easier time with my gear.
No offending that is exactly what my mentor is doing, and he uses tons of plug ins too. Yes a few pieces of HW are in the game - sometimes, but he also presents work fully ITB - sorry to say it, it sounds like the way he mixes. And sorry he worked in more great studios than the most of us have ever seen, because he was a big Number in the 80s.
And sorry to say it, it was not my shrink who taught me to just follow my vision, and not to follow a false GEAR belief system. He advised me to just be here and now, not to think into the future, just be in the present.
His exacts words were:
"Follow your sound vision with whatever gear is there, nothing else will make you happy"
Since then, I try to focus on the moment, on the gravity, just here and now. I stop to work when I feel I am not connected to the music.
I try to listen inside me before I make a mixing or arrangement decision.
It wasn't my aim to make the impression my music is so special, that it needs the best gear.
It's not the way I think about it.
I think there is no competition in music there is enough space for all souls who want to express something.
I just wanted to point out that it could be a belief system to justify my second point avoidance.
My personal avoidance has more to do with my Dad who kinda was "it's not good enough, you are so stupid son" I just can talk for myself I also had the gear avoidance, I can't do it without having an LA2A. Which was kinda child like thinking.... I need this to feel ready, complete. I am overcoming this step by step and I try to focus what matters.... the music...the performance.... a little late in my life, but not too late.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 28, 2021 16:10:43 GMT -6
If you are an artist first, you do whatever it takes to realize your vision whether you have great gear or not. But once you have experience your preferences will change. I can do everything I want with driving a Suburu, and it’s pretty nice, but would I prefer a Mercedes, absolutely.. the ride is nicer, the experience more rewarding.
I’ve found I’m more creative in well designed environments.
Some people get more creative under adversity, but I struggled working in a little corner of my living room to make my last album, I would be much more productive if I had my own space with a reasonable amount of room and a few well chosen pieces to get the sound that I want quickly.
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