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Post by cowboycoalminer on Jan 17, 2021 15:22:36 GMT -6
I mean, once you get into the Apollo threshold or higher, what is the "wall" that separates pro from consumer? If a person can't make great records with the technology we have today, can they ever?
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Post by johneppstein on Jan 17, 2021 15:54:08 GMT -6
Focusrite Scarlett?
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Post by Guitar on Jan 17, 2021 16:05:52 GMT -6
I don't think access to tools is really a problem any more for most average people with average incomes. I don't think there are any excuses for "bad audio."
What we do I think of sort of as a separate hobby from music quality. It's either because we love gear and sounds, and I can't think of any other reason, other than not wanting to stand still. You could make a case for 1% chart topping albums that sound like a million bucks, made with the most esoteric equipment, with millions of listeners. But there's also bedroom stuff up there now as we know.
It's all about skills and experience, the tools are no longer hard to acquire. If you're a bike racer you own a bicycle, and if you make music, a bunch of music gear. So why not have some fun with it, even if it's not literally "necessary."
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Post by Ward on Jan 17, 2021 16:13:55 GMT -6
I don't think access to tools is really a problem any more for most average people with average incomes. I don't think there are any excuses for "bad audio." I can think of a few excuses, none of them good ones . . . Triggered Drums, IRs, overkill on autotune/tuning, added distortion on everything. JMHO YMMV TETO
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Post by tkaitkai on Jan 17, 2021 16:15:56 GMT -6
My 2c:
You can make amazing records with anything if you have the drive, talent, and an ear for detail.
All of us are guilty of being way too obsessive over things that barely matter in the grand scheme of things. It's never going to matter which mic, EQ, preamp, or converter you used, or even how you made something sound a certain way. I always find myself going back to the basics:
1. If it sounds good, it is good. 2. There's no wrong way to make a sound. 3. All that has ever mattered is what's coming out of the speakers.
Your recordings either sound good or they don't, and they either serve the song or they don't. You can have shitty recordings that serve the song, and you can have pristine recordings that work against it.
Gear still matters, of course. Different mics sound different. Not all preamps, converters, and outboard are created equal. We're all here because we're nerds for gear, and that's fine. And I do think there's plenty of merit to the high end stuff — 9 times out of 10, high end gear just sounds right, and thus gets out of the way of the creative process. That's the real beauty in it.
But as much as I love the few high end pieces I have, if I'm being brutally honest, most of them probably aren't necessary. I know so many people who are absolutely killing it with a whole lot less.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 17, 2021 16:32:40 GMT -6
I don't think access to tools is really a problem any more for most average people with average incomes. I don't think there are any excuses for "bad audio." I can think of a few excuses, none of them good ones . . . Triggered Drums, IRs, overkill on autotune/tuning, added distortion on everything. JMHO YMMV TETO I just meant with the gear I guess. There are really good, inexpensive versions of most kinds of audio equipment these days. Sure, there are plenty of reasons why people suck and make sucky music, but I don't think any of them can honestly blame the equipment for the bad ideas.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 17, 2021 16:33:36 GMT -6
There is a lot of terrible music being made on great gear.
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Post by mrholmes on Jan 17, 2021 17:13:04 GMT -6
I mean, once you get into the Apollo threshold or higher, what is the "wall" that separates pro from consumer? If a person can't make great records with the technology we have today, can they ever?
Love working with RME and the new ones are on par with Apogee etc. My main RME unit is the first one with a clear defect it's at the factory for repair.
Now I work with the Focusrite Behringer Copy 1820. It's a difference sure, some smaller details are eaten up.
15 years ago I borrowed a friend my RME stuff for a mobile tracking session. I had a similar situation to know, but with a Tascam DA-AD. The Tascam thing was like night and day. Depth and dimension was gone etc. horrible experience. It was that bad that my gut instincrt told me - do not work with this.
Today the 200$ Behringer Focusrite Clone is not doing what the Tascam did 15 years ago. I could do work with it, and I think no one would complain. I still prefer the analytical sound of the RME which is for me absolute clean like fresh water.
I think we are blessed you can do a lot of sound today with very little gear. The rest is hobby for me, gear talk etc. With age, it gets lesser and lesser..... want to do more music because time is up one day....
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Post by Jason on Jan 17, 2021 17:20:06 GMT -6
There is a lot of terrible music being made on great gear. Nail, meet head, 💯!
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,961
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Post by ericn on Jan 17, 2021 17:23:03 GMT -6
Cheap Chinese condensers, that is the line in the sand, nothing like the guy with an MXL through a Decent Neve clone and a Warm 1176.
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Post by Ward on Jan 17, 2021 18:25:07 GMT -6
My 2c: You can make amazing records with anything if you have the drive, talent, and an ear for detail. i see what you mean . . .
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Post by nick8801 on Jan 17, 2021 18:44:31 GMT -6
I don’t get the hate for the Focusrite Scarlet. I think it has a very musical sound, and I recommend to everyone who asks me what they should get when they are starting out. It may not be the best thing out there, but it definitely wouldn’t stop you from making great music. I actually just had a conversation today with a very well known drummer who uses one to record all his solo music at home. I never once listened to his stuff and and thought, that guy must be using a scarlet.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 17, 2021 18:49:37 GMT -6
I agree, they are surprisingly decent. Not too bad at all. I've heard better and I've heard worse. Fun fact the Scarlett interfaces dominate the Reverb.com interface sales top 20 list.
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Post by mrholmes on Jan 17, 2021 18:52:40 GMT -6
Cheap Chinese condensers, that is the line in the sand, nothing like the guy with an MXL through a Decent Neve clone and a Warm 1176.
I had enough of my china experience two years ago. Never again I am very grateful for a few quality tools which serve me well.
I think today there are no boundaries to set your creative spirit free the DAW is made for this. I just wonder myself why we don't hear more about real creative people being ignored by the record industry.
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Post by Jason on Jan 17, 2021 18:54:11 GMT -6
My 2c: You can make amazing records with anything if you have the drive, talent, and an ear for detail. i see what you mean . . . Haha, how did you get into my house!?! Hahaha!!!
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Post by christopher on Jan 17, 2021 19:00:20 GMT -6
I got a Scarlett 18i20 for extra channels and my typical kitchen table/ laptop sessions, unfortunately it does stop me and anyone who would own it from making music as it randomly screams full scale “BZBXhNKhBhHIIIj!!!!!”. Heart attack, running to unplug the IEC cable etc. Ive figured out that I can use it standalone slave ADAT at low sample rates, so it’s not total waste of $300($400? $500 after tax and shipping, can’t remember?) . It’s USB is trash. But after support simply went “huh, well that sucks” I thought about reverb or eBay. Nah, can’t do that to somebody. It’s just gonna have be an adat slave rest of its days. Worst part I probably only put about 7 hours total on it when I finally realized it wasn’t my PC or drivers, and support totally failed to help out.
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Post by christopher on Jan 17, 2021 19:04:02 GMT -6
As to low end, it definitely is in full effect. I try to encourage my friends to download the Telefunken sessions and try mixing to hear what happens when you record with a pretty solid chain top to bottom. They haven’t tried it yet, too happy with current approaches..
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Post by EmRR on Jan 17, 2021 19:21:14 GMT -6
When I go through local music in my car it all sounds fine, most of it in the zone of "what would they need me for?". Put it on studio monitors, it's obvious it's not as good as it could be. But....no one listens on anything good, so......
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Jan 17, 2021 21:47:15 GMT -6
There is a lot of terrible music being made on great gear. And there always has been.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,961
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Post by ericn on Jan 17, 2021 22:22:32 GMT -6
When I go through local music in my car it all sounds fine, most of it in the zone of "what would they need me for?". Put it on studio monitors, it's obvious it's not as good as it could be. But....no one listens on anything good, so...... Well some of us do
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Jan 17, 2021 22:29:48 GMT -6
When I go through local music in my car it all sounds fine, most of it in the zone of "what would they need me for?". Put it on studio monitors, it's obvious it's not as good as it could be. But....no one listens on anything good, so...... Man, I hate to be the "that guy" on this stuff, but even though no one listens on anything "good" anymore, the shit still has to be tits out the box or it's not going to sound good on anything. Shitty mixes today aren't going to gain forgiveness on shitty listening sources. Ugh.
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Post by EmRR on Jan 17, 2021 22:56:36 GMT -6
When I go through local music in my car it all sounds fine, most of it in the zone of "what would they need me for?". Put it on studio monitors, it's obvious it's not as good as it could be. But....no one listens on anything good, so...... Man, I hate to be the "that guy" on this stuff, but even though no one listens on anything "good" anymore, the shit still has to be tits out the box or it's not going to sound good on anything. Shitty mixes today aren't going to gain forgiveness on shitty listening sources. Ugh. I dunno, a lot of stuff sounds "good" on average playback, more than good enough to convince the creators they don't need to enter a studio.
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Post by Bat Lanyard on Jan 17, 2021 23:29:34 GMT -6
Man, I hate to be the "that guy" on this stuff, but even though no one listens on anything "good" anymore, the shit still has to be tits out the box or it's not going to sound good on anything. Shitty mixes today aren't going to gain forgiveness on shitty listening sources. Ugh. I dunno, a lot of stuff sounds "good" on average playback, more than good enough to convince the creators they don't need to enter a studio. Right on, man. I'm not convinced it takes a village, but I've spent many years, step by step, to get sounds. I know there's styles and music you can get ITB. Totally amazing for those that can get there. Debate forever on how sonically rewarding all of that is, I guess. For us, it just doesn't happen until it's running through "stuff". I think that may be part of the thing, though - it was easy with hardware, it's tough with 1's and zero's.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jan 18, 2021 2:02:57 GMT -6
Cheap Chinese condensers, that is the line in the sand, nothing like the guy with an MXL through a Decent Neve clone and a Warm 1176. Yeah, Chinese mics suck but shouldn’t stop a capable engineer of using their ears & mic techniques to capture useable takes. I have used Miktek C3/ C7/ C1 into a tonebeast into a WA76 w/ great results. One who is capable should def be able to get something nice out of that chain you listed.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jan 18, 2021 2:05:07 GMT -6
I know platinum songs recorded on sub $200 Blue mics into mbox.
No one is rushing out to buy X song cuz it was recorded w a 1949 Large Body U47 into Fairchild #7 into Neve 80 series.
Better tools make the whole process more exciting & easier to get quicker high quality results. Efficiency & Enthusiasm:) that’s why I own the ( small amount of ) quality gear that I do!
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