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Post by OtisGreying on Sept 18, 2020 21:02:36 GMT -6
Perhaps a dumb question but I am new to patchbays.
I want to get the most out of the recording chain I'm building and I only record 1 thing at a time mostly. I have a BAE, MA5, and Chroma all as line amps adding color.
My question being - Is there any sonic compromise or malpractice in sticking a patchbay before my line amps and then patching my main mono preamp into the patchbay?
So Mic -> Preamp -> Patchbay -> Line amp/ other analog equipment -> Converter
Reason I ask is I want to experiment patching different mono preamps into the chain so I can use the chain for different preamps and mics I have on the fly. Any help is appreciated thank you.
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 18, 2020 21:14:14 GMT -6
I go Mic Into the patchbay unless it’s a fet mic that needs phantom. I can’t tell any difference.
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Post by OtisGreying on Sept 18, 2020 21:19:19 GMT -6
I go Mic Into the patchbay unless it’s a fet mic that needs phantom. I can’t tell any difference. So you actually plug your mic directly into your patchbay before any preamps? |
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 18, 2020 21:46:01 GMT -6
I go Mic Into the patchbay unless it’s a fet mic that needs phantom. I can’t tell any difference. So you actually plug your mic directly into your patchbay before any preamps? I do. And I’ve even got a cheap dbx 1/4” patchbay. Yes people I’m out. Lol. I’m sure there is some technical degradation, but you really don’t have to worry about it. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 18, 2020 21:48:29 GMT -6
Now after typing that, I’m sure there will be somebody that has the direct opposite experience of coming from a 1/4 patchbay to a Tt or something and they will swear up and down there’s a difference. Who knows. Maybe there is. I’m always willing to say I’m wrong...
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Post by Chad on Sept 18, 2020 21:54:20 GMT -6
Now after typing that, I’m sure there will be somebody that has the direct opposite experience of coming from a 1/4 patchbay to a Tt or something and they will swear up and down there’s a difference. Who knows. Maybe there is. I’m always willing to say I’m wrong... ^^^ Well, I'm of the opinion that if you own the forum, your opinion is the correct one.  But, seriously, that's interesting, @johnkenn. I actually have a patchbay that is the frontend of 16 of my mic pres. It's an XLR / 1/4" combo plug, so I can also re-amp through it at line leve as well. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 18, 2020 22:00:15 GMT -6
My only question would be that my patchbay is prosumer. But I’d be really surprised if recording a single channel vocal would be any different at all with a more professional patchbay. I’m sure there are Tonycamps of the world that claim they hear a difference, but jeesh - it’s the source and performance before anything. I will add, however, that I stopped sweating the small stuff only when I had the sum of a lot of quality parts...e.g. great mics, great pres, great comps, good enough AD and fantastic DA and monitoring.
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Post by OtisGreying on Sept 19, 2020 0:20:21 GMT -6
Now after typing that, I’m sure there will be somebody that has the direct opposite experience of coming from a 1/4 patchbay to a Tt or something and they will swear up and down there’s a difference. Who knows. Maybe there is. I’m always willing to say I’m wrong... ^^^ Well, I'm of the opinion that if you own the forum, your opinion is the correct one. But, seriously, that's interesting, @johnkenn. I actually have a patchbay that is the frontend of 16 of my mic pres. It's an XLR / 1/4" combo plug, so I can also re-amp through it at line leve as well. Chad so youre going Mic -> patchbay -> preamps -> rest of chain -> converter?
Could you share which patchbay you use?
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Post by jeremygillespie on Sept 19, 2020 7:07:46 GMT -6
Isn’t this the reason we use a patchbay? They are to easily change and integrate all of the gear in your studio with minimal fuss.
In big rooms, the situation is usually:
-mic in live room or booth > 20’ cable > wall panel > at least 50’ snake > patchbay > another 30’ of cable to get to the preamp > 30’ cable to get back to patchbay > 30’ cable to get to compressor > 30’ cable back to patchbay > 30’ cable to converter.
That’s a lot of patches and that’s just with a preamp and compressor. Some folks go further and throw another patch with an eq in there or line amps like you’re saying. It’s really not that big of a deal. Yes somebody will come here and say that the sound is degraded and you can’t patch phantom through the bay... but it’s been done for what 60+ years in almost every professional studio in the world.
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Post by notneeson on Sept 19, 2020 9:22:19 GMT -6
My only question would be that my patchbay is prosumer. But I’d be really surprised if recording a single channel vocal would be any different at all with a more professional patchbay. I’m sure there are Tonycamps of the world that claim they hear a difference, but jeesh - it’s the source and performance before anything. I will add, however, that I stopped sweating the small stuff only when I had the sum of a lot of quality parts...e.g. great mics, great pres, great comps, good enough AD and fantastic DA and monitoring. I mean, claiming you can hear a difference and actually doing it blindly are two different things. And I don't say that to demean anyone's abilities but instead to say that it is always good to check one's own assumptions in audio. I think the long term issue with TRS bays is that they tend to wear out faster and get flaky. Your stuff sounds great, rock that DBX as long as you can. |
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Post by drbill on Sept 19, 2020 9:48:10 GMT -6
If your patch bay is working right, wired correctly, and you have a good grounding scheme, there's no degradation in any of them. It's just a metal to metal connect. However, some will work for a lifetime (most TT bays), others will work for a few years. (Cheap TRS bays) Some could be problematic right off the dealer shelf. (Super Cheapo TRS)
Personally, the amount of time and effort in implementing a solid patch bay system leaves me with only one option : TT bays with Elco Connects on the rear. But that's me. I've probably spent a year out of my life configuring multiple patch bay systems. Life is too short to scrimp.
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Post by bluegrassdan on Sept 19, 2020 10:03:52 GMT -6
Mic —> patchbay —> preamp is fine
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Post by Chad on Sept 19, 2020 12:19:01 GMT -6
^^^ Well, I'm of the opinion that if you own the forum, your opinion is the correct one. But, seriously, that's interesting, @johnkenn. I actually have a patchbay that is the frontend of 16 of my mic pres. It's an XLR / 1/4" combo plug, so I can also re-amp through it at line leve as well. Chad so youre going Mic -> patchbay -> preamps -> rest of chain -> converter?
Could you share which patchbay you use?
I'm using this one for mic inputs, @otisgreying: www.amazon.com/Mamba-16C2C-16-XLR-Combo-16/dp/B06ZZS98NQ |
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Post by Ward on Sept 19, 2020 14:27:27 GMT -6
Well, I'm of the opinion that if you own the forum, your opinion is the correct one. Yes, you are right. LOL . . . Johnkenn is always correct. So, Chad, remember, it's mic -> RGO -> patchbay -> preamp etc |
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Post by Chad on Sept 19, 2020 15:39:07 GMT -6
Well, I'm of the opinion that if you own the forum, your opinion is the correct one. Yes, you are right. LOL . . . Johnkenn is always correct. So, Chad , remember, it's mic -> RGO -> patchbay -> preamp etc Ward, oh yes, I forgot. ;-) |
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Post by terryrocks on Sept 19, 2020 15:50:26 GMT -6
I use the nuetrik nys-spp-L
Each channel can be replaced without issue. I’ve not had to do this yet, but it did weigh into my decision to go this route
I have my snake hitting the patchbay half normalled sending signal direct to interface, or I can split the signal for outboard fx and return on a second input. This has basically served as a safety measure in case something is awry with my outboard gear or choices
i thought long and hard about tt patchbay, but even the damn cables are expensive.
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 19, 2020 17:35:18 GMT -6
Well, I'm of the opinion that if you own the forum, your opinion is the correct one. Yes, you are right. LOL . . . Johnkenn is always correct. So, Chad, remember, it's mic -> RGO -> patchbay -> preamp etc You’re just mad because I deleted the Randy post. Yes, I deleted the Randy propaganda. |
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Post by ericn on Sept 19, 2020 17:41:05 GMT -6
Yes, you are right. LOL . . . Johnkenn is always correct. So, Chad, remember, it's mic -> RGO -> patchbay -> preamp etc You’re just mad because I deleted the Randy post. Yes, I deleted the Randy propaganda. It’s all fake news I tell yu all fake news. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 19, 2020 20:17:46 GMT -6
You’re just mad because I deleted the Randy post. Yes, I deleted the Randy propaganda. It’s all fake news I tell yu all fake news. It’s the first censorship I’ve ever done at RGO. If anyone wants to know why, they can Pm me. |
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Post by OtisGreying on Sept 20, 2020 3:34:34 GMT -6
If your patch bay is working right, wired correctly, and you have a good grounding scheme, there's no degradation in any of them. It's just a metal to metal connect. However, some will work for a lifetime (most TT bays), others will work for a few years. (Cheap TRS bays) Some could be problematic right off the dealer shelf. (Super Cheapo TRS) Personally, the amount of time and effort in implementing a solid patch bay system leaves me with only one option : TT bays with Elco Connects on the rear. But that's me. I've probably spent a year out of my life configuring multiple patch bay systems. Life is too short to scrimp. drBill which patchaby with Elco do you use?
Any chance this one fits the bill? Seems strangely cheap but its TT/elco.
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Post by Ward on Sept 20, 2020 5:17:41 GMT -6
Yes, you are right. LOL . . . Johnkenn is always correct. So, Chad, remember, it's mic -> RGO -> patchbay -> preamp etc You’re just mad because I deleted the Randy post. Yes, I deleted the Randy propaganda. Look at me, I got jokes. LOL |
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Post by drbill on Sept 20, 2020 11:06:20 GMT -6
If your patch bay is working right, wired correctly, and you have a good grounding scheme, there's no degradation in any of them. It's just a metal to metal connect. However, some will work for a lifetime (most TT bays), others will work for a few years. (Cheap TRS bays) Some could be problematic right off the dealer shelf. (Super Cheapo TRS) Personally, the amount of time and effort in implementing a solid patch bay system leaves me with only one option : TT bays with Elco Connects on the rear. But that's me. I've probably spent a year out of my life configuring multiple patch bay systems. Life is too short to scrimp. drBill which patchaby with Elco do you use?
Any chance this one fits the bill? Seems strangely cheap but its TT/elco.
Ive got a mixed bunch. Lots of ADC's and Bittrees. Probably some others as well. 10 in all. Most all of them are good to excellent. Price on that seems fair. Elco is a commitment, but if you're in for the long term, I personally believe it's not only the right choice, but the only choice. Good luck. |
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 20, 2020 13:18:47 GMT -6
My only question would be that my patchbay is prosumer. But I’d be really surprised if recording a single channel vocal would be any different at all with a more professional patchbay. I’m sure there are Tonycamps of the world that claim they hear a difference, but jeesh - it’s the source and performance before anything. I will add, however, that I stopped sweating the small stuff only when I had the sum of a lot of quality parts...e.g. great mics, great pres, great comps, good enough AD and fantastic DA and monitoring. Well, I can be pretty picky but I really don't hear any difference unless the contacts are dirty or the bay is so cheap that they lose spring tension.
Thast being said (and I really don't want to get into yet another discussion of this) I am of the school that mics should never run through a TRS/TT bay because sooner or later somebody will make a mistake with phantom. I have XLR patch panels (input only) for that.
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 20, 2020 13:25:10 GMT -6
Personally, the amount of time and effort in implementing a solid patch bay system leaves me with only one option : TT bays with Elco Connects on the rear. But that's me. I've probably spent a year out of my life configuring multiple patch bay systems. Life is too short to scrimp. Or hard solder. Really not that much more inconvenient than Elco/EDACs, really, especially on Switchcraft bays with easily removeable (one screw) jacks. |
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Post by drbill on Sept 20, 2020 13:57:03 GMT -6
Personally, the amount of time and effort in implementing a solid patch bay system leaves me with only one option : TT bays with Elco Connects on the rear. But that's me. I've probably spent a year out of my life configuring multiple patch bay systems. Life is too short to scrimp. Or hard solder. Really not that much more inconvenient than Elco/EDACs, really, especially on Switchcraft bays with easily removeable (one screw) jacks. Well...Elco's ARE hard soldered at the jacks. But when it comes to changing things, moving racks or bays, reconfiguring your gear, hard soldered snakes are HUGELY more inconvenient. |
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