taming the hat

Some light de-essing/compresser sidechained to the hat on the overheads and rooms post is all I can suggest now. For songs without a lot of tom action, sometimes running the drum overheads into an expander keyed to the snare can make you less reliant on the OH sound in general.

Sort of on off topic: I've heard talk either way that bigger hats or smaller hats are louder. Has anyone any input on this?

14" K series hats are louder than 13" K series hats/  I have both here in my studio.  It is a rare day when the 14s win out over the 13s, in any situation.  the 13" k series Zidjians are just THAT good.

Then someone explain how Greg Saunier uses 2 rides for a hi hat and makes them and the kit balance sound freaking amazing!? Is it that they're bigger but also thicker?

 

Different sticks make a difference too. He hasn't swapped to nylon tips, has he?

I have 13" K Mastersounds and they're killer. Sound nice and not too loud. I had a pair of 15" Z Custom Mastersounds for a short time. They were super loud and bright.

For me, it's more the material of the cymbal than the size though I think.

It's true! Live situations, I use a little more bright hihats and cymbals as they cut through the sound wall (of course depending what style of music). But in the studio recording I choose the other way around the dark cymbals so it will be more pleasant and easier to mix the drums.

I do the keys in the hat thing a lot. It's better to do it with coins though. Once a drummer left his home keys in the hi hat and i had to go back to the studio after a long session. I keep a bunch of coins around in the live room. Doesn't work that well for open hat.

Darker hats help. It is really hats that are too bright that eat up guitars, vocals, etc and might end up as the "loudest thing" in the mix.

Room mics help. If the hat is too loud, at least you can place guitars "in front" of it. Keep your guitars or any instruments that should be more prominent in the mix, as dry as possible. If you didn't record room mics for the drums, fake it with a chamber or a reverb. Roomier drums and drier "melodic" instruments might not have been you initial idea, but it will help when rerecording is out of the question.

Hats that you can bend with your hand will be less of a problem. Larger diameter hat will sound darker usually. I have a set of 15" Turkish classic hats that are fairly dark and "grainy" sounding. I also have a 14" Turkish classic crash that can function as the top hat. It is thin and dark. It works well but if it is hit too hard, it will bend out of shape and ruin the take.

If the drummer is ok with moving the hat a little, raising it usually helps. He cant hit it as hard or were it sounds the nastiest.

Avoid nylon tipped drum sticks. They make the cymbals sound much more present.

Sometimes using an "end fire" mic for the snare instead of a "side address" mic can help. You can get a little more separation with your mic positioning. Perhaps the snare wont sound as natural as you would like, though.

You can find quite a lot of hi hat spill in the rack tom mic as well as in the snare mic. Changing the mic placement here might also reduce some spill.

Talking to the drummer and explaining the situation is important. He or she should be aware of how his playing "translates" into the control room. However, there are many drummers that cant really change their playing style in the middle of a session.

Use a louder snare. Avoid snare muffling as it doesn't just change the sound (shorter, drier) it also reduces the volume. More snare in the snare mic will help.

These are the things I can think of from the top of my head.

Coins/keys in the hat trick reduces volume without changing the sound like using duct tape. Drummers don't find it objectionable. I first read about it on a post by Steve Albini in the old PSW forum a while back.

Thanks. I found a link to the Albini PSW post through a post in the EA forum. I hope it's ok to post links to other forums : )

(You have to scroll up to the post. Uhm, ninth from the top I think)

bigger, thinner hats are tame in comparison to the opposite IME

I totally agree that certain condenser mics sound GREAT on snare, I know this is already a done deal tracking wise, but when i use a condenser, i try to get it as close as possible and still sound good, so there is a larger db range between the desired snare signal and bleed for gating and expanding downward if necessary.

that said, great drummers mix themselves IMO

He makes incredibly good sounding recordings imo. They stand out on a good system.

The delayed omnis on the flor technique also helps with the hat. Hat and cymbals are the furthest away from the mics. It's a technique you can use in smaller rooms as you get no reflected sound from any surface. You can use  a lot of the room signal and still have definition in your drum sound.