|
|
Post by svart on Jul 29, 2013 12:54:07 GMT -6
I've only used some B1's and MK219's on toms. Never did like the amount of bleed I was getting. I switched to ATM25's before they became expensive and rare as hen's teeth and never looked back.
Am I the only one who didn't think that Miktek video sounded good at all? It sounded like mostly room mic with almost no close mic definition at all.
|
|
|
|
Post by cenafria on Jul 30, 2013 2:07:34 GMT -6
I'm happy with the Audio Technica ATM450. They are bright in a useful way and the cymbal spill works. I mic top and bottom with them. They've survived being struck with a drum stick. They're pretty cheap.
|
|
pma
Full Member
Posts: 35 
|
Post by pma on Jul 30, 2013 4:56:22 GMT -6
C451 top and MD421 bottom combined has been my favorite for years.
But ... my buddy now builds U47's and I love that sound on toms, snare top also. Definitely my new favorite.
|
|
|
|
Post by brianscheffer on Jul 30, 2013 7:42:26 GMT -6
C451 top and MD421 bottom combined has been my favorite for years. I'm not the only one! |
|
|
|
Post by gouge on Jul 30, 2013 8:23:35 GMT -6
i'm very happy to read others enjoying the results of double micing drums. that method seems to get a lot of bad press but to me it makes the drum sound so much fuller and realistic.
|
|
|
|
Post by cenafria on Jul 30, 2013 8:43:56 GMT -6
i'm very happy to read others enjoying the results of double micing drums. that method seems to get a lot of bad press but to me it makes the drum sound so much fuller and realistic. For me it made a huge difference. Less eq, more control and better spill from the cymbals/hat. |
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Jul 30, 2013 9:33:29 GMT -6
Am I the only one who didn't think that Miktek video sounded good at all? It sounded like mostly room mic with almost no close mic definition at all. |
|
pma
Full Member
Posts: 35
|
Post by pma on Jul 30, 2013 9:49:55 GMT -6
I'm a fan of really long deep sustain. I find it hard without close miking bottom head. I usually put a tom in front of the kick and mic that close as well. On a separate track, to get a kick boom add on for mix.
|
|
|
|
Post by wreck on Jul 30, 2013 10:15:26 GMT -6
Last night I ended up putting a Sm7 on an 18 inch tom and it worked out well. 421's on the other 2 toms. Before I had the sm7 in the mix, I stuck an original cad e100 on the 18 and really liked it, but had to steal it away for outside kick.
|
|
|
|
Post by wreck on Jul 30, 2013 10:24:12 GMT -6
SNIP AKG C451s sound pretty good, too. If you want something more sluggish, C414s will do. Just watch out for that cymbal leakage!
I wouldn't be exaggerating if I said I have recorded close to 1000 different drum kits with many many many different microphones. 451s in general do not make very good tom-tom mics due to their sudden drop off at 300hz down to floor level, and their lack of proximity effect to give the oomph needed for effective tom close mic track usage in a mix.
414s have multiple polar patterns and can be tailored to help with leakage, but just like with 421s, cleaning up your tracks later will certainly help. The other, most important, thing to consider with 414s is that there are MANY different kinds of 414s. Yes, certain ones like the ULS will sound sluggish but a 414EB, the new 414 XLS or the brighter 414XLII are full of life and detail and can be quite effective.
And of course 87s are great on Toms too.
The only problem with using expensive condensors on toms is the ability of almost any drummer to gash the headbasket with such destructive precision, that you'd think he was doing it on purpose!
Not dissing Chad's sound, but I'd dang near kill for the sound Marco is getting in this video. Love the kick. Big, deep and full of character. Exactly the opposite of what I get out of my room. His touch is a big part though. My drummer loves hitting hard, but he is learning. |
|
|
|
Post by sozocaps on Jul 30, 2013 10:58:58 GMT -6
The CAD 179's do hyper guess that's one reason dudes like them on toms, less leakage ?
|
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Jul 30, 2013 11:25:43 GMT -6
The CAD 179's do hyper guess that's one reason dudes like them on toms, less leakage ?
If you use cardioid pattern, TYPICALLY, you are going to get leakage from snare, bottom head sympathetic vibrations from kick impact, hi hats and ride cymbals.
If you use super-cardioid or hyper-cardioid, TYPICALLY, you are going to get MORE leakage from crash cymbals, close by, in particular but less of the snare, hats, and ride cymbals but MORE bottom head sympathetic vibrations from kick impacts.
There is virtually no microphone that picks up just directly in front of itself within 1-2" and nothing else. The day that happens, we'll all be buying them for Tom-tom applications; amongst others. |
|
pma
Full Member
Posts: 35
|
Post by pma on Jul 30, 2013 12:48:55 GMT -6
I'd say: learn to live with leakage. It's usually eq boosts that makes nasty cymbals. Or, nasty cymbals in the first place. Acoustically.
|
|
|
|
Post by svart on Jul 30, 2013 15:00:57 GMT -6
Not dissing Chad's sound, but I'd dang near kill for the sound Marco is getting in this video. Love the kick. Big, deep and full of character. Exactly the opposite of what I get out of my room. His touch is a big part though. My drummer loves hitting hard, but he is learning. That video sounds like mostly room tone that is squashed. I'd say that someone used a lot of room mic and very little tom mic. I gate/cut the crap out of my toms and use the attack and meat from the close mics and use the ring and ambiance from the overheads and room. That seems to balance out the sound pretty good without getting that phase-y sound you get from too much tom bleed. They sound pretty terrible when solo'd but sound great in the mix. Gotta remind folks that it's the balance of all the drum mics, not just the close mics that make the sound. I don't know if anyone here is doing it but I've run across too many folks who get tied up thinking about certain sounds coming from single mics when it's really a big balance coming from many sources. |
|
|
|
Post by ragan on Jul 30, 2013 21:26:12 GMT -6
The m179s are indeed pretty great on toms.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Jul 30, 2013 22:44:24 GMT -6
The m179s are indeed pretty great on toms. my own set and 71 microphones was NOT enough! |
|
|
|
Post by ragan on Jul 31, 2013 11:15:40 GMT -6
No, you aren't alone... it was very unconvincing and if anything, put Miktek on my "never buy that crap" list. Wow. Horses for courses. I loved the sounds. Especially the second set. |
|
rolffz
Full Member
"skrizziks"
Posts: 38
|
Post by rolffz on Oct 8, 2013 17:00:16 GMT -6
Josephson E22s
|
|
|
|
Post by IamJohnGalt on Oct 9, 2013 12:12:17 GMT -6
I have tried Oktava MK-12s, TLM103s, 441s and 414xliis and I like the MK12s the best on toms as far as my condenser mics go. I stick to dynamic these days though (421s on larger toms and Beyerdynamic B50D on smaller ones).
|
|
|
|
Post by jazznoise on Oct 17, 2013 10:23:51 GMT -6
The CAD 179's do hyper guess that's one reason dudes like them on toms, less leakage ?
If you use cardioid pattern, TYPICALLY, you are going to get leakage from snare, bottom head sympathetic vibrations from kick impact, hi hats and ride cymbals.
If you use super-cardioid or hyper-cardioid, TYPICALLY, you are going to get MORE leakage from crash cymbals, close by, in particular but less of the snare, hats, and ride cymbals but MORE bottom head sympathetic vibrations from kick impacts.
There is virtually no microphone that picks up just directly in front of itself within 1-2" and nothing else. The day that happens, we'll all be buying them for Tom-tom applications; amongst others. Well there are "diffaroid" microphones, I've heard, which cancel out distant signals. But they're only for speech purposes in loud environments like Football Stadiums announcers and stuff. www.crownaudio.com/cm310a_history.htmI use Omnis a lot because I think bad off-axis colouration followed by processing is hugely responsible for weird/bad drum and ensemble sounds. With the lobing you get on the sides of an SM57 you may be completely blocking out the crash at most high frequencies, except for say 8 Khz and 14Khz (Just examples). So when you go to brighten the snare with a 5Khz shelf, you're essentially bumping a notch at these frequencies on the cymbals. Now all microphones do this to some extent, but some are worse than others and some patterns make lobing more severe than others. It is a problem complicated by problems. If you have old drum skins and bright cymbals, it's just going to be tough to get everything to play nice in a spectral sense, but sometimes mic choice can make this harder than it should have to be. |
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Oct 17, 2013 21:22:33 GMT -6
I'd like to amend my statement. I've had some time to evaluate the CAD M179s versus the old standard (Senn 421s). Not only do they sound VERY similar to the 421s but they INDEED actually reject a lot of off-axis leakage.
I'm very impressed.
|
|
|
|
Post by cenafria on Oct 26, 2013 5:12:55 GMT -6
I've been having good results with the Audio Technica ATM450 for a few (five?) years. They are affordable (I like to mic top and bottom) and bright in useful way. The cymbal spill sounds good. They are side address, making them easy to place. When struck, the grill gets bent but without reaching the capsule's backplate. When I started trying out condensers for toms I noticed I needed a lot less eq for my tom tracks to "work". This is an example of a record with the toms miced with 450s top and bottom. Edit: It seems I had already recommended these mics... Must remember to review entire thread : ) |
|
|
|
Post by watchtower on Nov 5, 2013 11:20:39 GMT -6
I'd like to amend my statement. I've had some time to evaluate the CAD M179s versus the old standard (Senn 421s). Not only do they sound VERY similar to the 421s but they INDEED actually reject a lot of off-axis leakage. I'm very impressed. Just curious, are those the old 421s, or the newer ones? |
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Nov 5, 2013 14:56:25 GMT -6
I'd like to amend my statement. I've had some time to evaluate the CAD M179s versus the old standard (Senn 421s). Not only do they sound VERY similar to the 421s but they INDEED actually reject a lot of off-axis leakage. I'm very impressed. Just curious, are those the old 421s, or the newer ones? I've got both and I don't hear much difference between the two... the newer ones are a little better, but the difference is very subtle. It's only heard in the rejection of ambiant noise and RF interference. |
|
|
|
Post by watchtower on Nov 5, 2013 16:06:45 GMT -6
Just curious, are those the old 421s, or the newer ones? I've got both and I don't hear much difference between the two... the newer ones are a little better, but the difference is very subtle. It's only heard in the rejection of ambiant noise and RF interference. They sound very different on guitar amp. I figured the difference on toms would be noticeable, too. |
|
