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Post by viciousbliss on Jun 6, 2018 18:10:38 GMT -6
With the usual sale going on, I thought I would try some more of their stuff just to see if I could make more use of it than Cream. Envolution, Dynamics, and Dynamic Eq are some of the most useful and intuitive plugins I've ever used. Shoulda got these years ago. Inflator can still be really useful, but it seems like Envolution and Dynamics already have warmth knobs that do pretty much the same thing. I've been using the Weiss stuff in lieu of Oxford Limiter, but I decided to test Bx Limiter today and found that I liked using that after the DS1-MK3 instead of the MM1. So maybe I will have to try using the Oxford again. Envolution easily makes music have more excitement and ambience. Just by increasing the transients a few db and the sustain 1-2 db and leaving everything else at default unless I add some of the warmth. The paragraph-long hints that pop on each knob are very useful and make them that much more intuitive. The Dynamic eq is quick and easy to work with. It's the first one I've ever liked using. Dynamics is far better than I thought it'd be. I needed to gate some excess hiss off an old demo someone else recorded and mixed and the default setting reduced it enough without messing up the things every other gate plugin I've used seems to mess up with the highs. The compressor and limiter are both very useful and transparent. Warmth seems to produce about the same results as Inflator in certain settings. The eq can be helpful. It's something that can do a lot to transform a track or mix. I'm still needing to use Envolution on more individual tracks. The degree of control is so much better than on other transient shapers and the sustain increase does a lot more than spl drumxchanger's. Briefly tried Suppreser. It is transparent, but I vastly prefer the VLB902. Anyone know if there's big faults with these? Otherwise I think they're pretty top of the line.
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Post by Mister Chase on Jun 2, 2021 9:55:27 GMT -6
I don't want to get slayed for bringing up an old post but, no one ever responded and I was about to start a Sonnox thread.
I do really like these plugs. The Sonnox EQ is a great ITB EQ. Pretty flippin awesome what you can do with it. Sounds great.
The dynamics are also great. Nice and transparent. Great utility plugs.
If I were to offer and critique it would be that the dynamics has no wet/dry mix ability. Really and truly at this point, every plugin should have that, especially an all in one dynamics solution plugin. Unless it's under the hood and I'm an idiot, I haven't seen it.
The EQ is fantastic and I like limitations as much as the next guy but, perhaps more bands, and fully parametric in that they aren't limited to frequency ranges. However, I actually kind of like that in a sense. If I need more than what Sonnox EQ can do, I'm kind of in trouble.
Also, fully scalable UI's. A facelift wouldn't hurt any of these plugs. At their prices, I would expect some of those updates.
If they had them, I might end up using them on every mix...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2021 14:28:57 GMT -6
Oxford EQ is great and clean 64 bit float de cramped eq. It’s cleaner than fab filter and mdweq.
The dynamics and limiter plugs are old dsp and not great. Aliased. Forced hold time in the dynamic compressor section. Limiter is gross bright but better than much of its competition
I need to try suppressor and the gate still
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Post by phantom on Jun 2, 2021 14:34:39 GMT -6
Anyone here likes Envolution?
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Post by Mister Chase on Jun 2, 2021 14:41:29 GMT -6
Oxford EQ is great and clean 64 bit float de cramped eq. It’s cleaner than fab filter and mdweq. The dynamics and limiter plugs are old dsp and not great. Aliased. Forced hold time in the dynamic compressor section. Limiter is gross bright but better than much of its competition I need to try suppressor and the gate still It is a nice EQ for sure. I end up using Fabfilter more because of its user interface and features. Less limited. Function over sound I guess. I do like the Sonnox EQ sound, though. I really hear that I am doing something when I move stuff around. Fabfilter always seems like I need to work it more to get it making a sound. That's good and bad, depending.
Just got the Oxford limiter on sale. Yea, seems ok but, I was just reunited with TDR Limiter no 6 after using the original 10+ years ago.
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Post by Mister Chase on Jun 2, 2021 14:42:06 GMT -6
Anyone here likes Envolution? Haven't ever used it.
I do like inflator.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2021 16:42:43 GMT -6
Oxford EQ is great and clean 64 bit float de cramped eq. It’s cleaner than fab filter and mdweq. The dynamics and limiter plugs are old dsp and not great. Aliased. Forced hold time in the dynamic compressor section. Limiter is gross bright but better than much of its competition I need to try suppressor and the gate still It is a nice EQ for sure. I end up using Fabfilter more because of its user interface and features. Less limited. Function over sound I guess. I do like the Sonnox EQ sound, though. I really hear that I am doing something when I move stuff around. Fabfilter always seems like I need to work it more to get it making a sound. That's good and bad, depending.
Just got the Oxford limiter on sale. Yea, seems ok but, I was just reunited with TDR Limiter no 6 after using the original 10+ years ago.
TDR Limiter 6 is the cleanliness champ for the actual limiter part. Insane mode is unbeatable. The BX_limiter was a frickin joke in comparison. Only PSP Xenon oversampled with detector C comes close but it doesn’t do anything to the high end. Detectors A and B are more like Waves. I end up using Slick Eq Ge and PSP Master q2 for workhorse mixing eqs. Sometimes infinistrip but I’m going to replace it on this recent mix. |
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Post by Mister Chase on Jun 2, 2021 16:52:19 GMT -6
It is a nice EQ for sure. I end up using Fabfilter more because of its user interface and features. Less limited. Function over sound I guess. I do like the Sonnox EQ sound, though. I really hear that I am doing something when I move stuff around. Fabfilter always seems like I need to work it more to get it making a sound. That's good and bad, depending.
Just got the Oxford limiter on sale. Yea, seems ok but, I was just reunited with TDR Limiter no 6 after using the original 10+ years ago.
TDR Limiter 6 is the cleanliness champ for the actual limiter part. Insane mode is unbeatable. The BX_limiter was a frickin joke in comparison. Only PSP Xenon oversampled with detector C comes close but it doesn’t do anything to the high end. Detectors A and B are more like Waves. I end up using Slick Eq Ge and PSP Master q2 for mixing. Sometimes infinistrip but I’m going to replace it on this recent mix. PSP master q2 is really nice. I need to get into slick eq. I'm getting acquainted with Molot GE after using the old version way early on. The one downside I have is that there are too many controls. Which happens to be one of its high points for tweak ability. I admit that I prefer one and two knob compressors the most for fast work. But Molot is very different to other compressors ITB. |
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Post by popmann on Jun 2, 2021 18:55:37 GMT -6
Oxford Dynamics I remember liking a good deal on bass. Something about the IO model (drive knob?) having a flattering 'sizzly' kind of thing. Very Focusrite'y...
I remember hating the reverb with a passion. But, for a while, I basically hated every ITB reverb I tried...so, I don't know how much of a shot I gave it.
I really don't remember the others in the line. Those were around when I was largely using hardware. But, I think there's likely a lot of value...I honestly don't understand this "haven't plug ins gotten SO good in the last few years" thing I keep reading on forums. Maybe the quality of the AVERAGE audio plug in is going up or something...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2021 19:11:01 GMT -6
It is a nice EQ for sure. I end up using Fabfilter more because of its user interface and features. Less limited. Function over sound I guess. I do like the Sonnox EQ sound, though. I really hear that I am doing something when I move stuff around. Fabfilter always seems like I need to work it more to get it making a sound. That's good and bad, depending.
Just got the Oxford limiter on sale. Yea, seems ok but, I was just reunited with TDR Limiter no 6 after using the original 10+ years ago.
TDR Limiter 6 is the cleanliness champ for the actual limiter part. Insane mode is unbeatable. The BX_limiter was a frickin joke in comparison. Only PSP Xenon oversampled with detector C comes close but it doesn’t do anything to the high end. Detectors A and B are more like Waves. I end up using Slick Eq Ge and PSP Master q2 for workhorse mixing eqs. Sometimes infinistrip but I’m going to replace it on this recent mix. Hmm, never tried Sonnox but TDR Limiter 6 gave out way before Ozone / Pro-L did on my stuff. Although for 30 I'd happily use it in-chain anyway so I'll probably pick it up. popmann "Maybe the quality of the AVERAGE audio plug in is going up or something..." Are you saying there was good and bad plugs or they're all mediocre but the average level is rising? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2021 19:36:35 GMT -6
TDR Limiter 6 is the cleanliness champ for the actual limiter part. Insane mode is unbeatable. The BX_limiter was a frickin joke in comparison. Only PSP Xenon oversampled with detector C comes close but it doesn’t do anything to the high end. Detectors A and B are more like Waves. I end up using Slick Eq Ge and PSP Master q2 for workhorse mixing eqs. Sometimes infinistrip but I’m going to replace it on this recent mix. Hmm, never tried Sonnox but TDR Limiter 6 gave out way before Ozone / Pro-L did on my stuff. Although for 30 I'd happily use it in-chain anyway so I'll probably pick it up. What do you mean by giving out? Limiter 6 on insane has the lowest distortion of any current digital limiter. It doesn’t distort so it squishes instead of getting slightly distorted. But of course the bigger peaks you feed it (typically from lack of effective digital dynamics control) the more it will distort like any compressor because it’s advanced detector is catching those peaks and squishing them down as advertised unlike most look ahead limiters. The squish is because it’s attacking and releasing as set on whatever crosses the detectors. So you can make it very small and incredibly weak sounding without a ton of harshness. Most lookahead limiters are random distortion machines which is why they sound harsh after 1-2 db of gr at most but can sound better with that. The imd can be a nice sort of saturation. If you want to distort a bit, reduce the release time and use only 1x lookahead. Eco mode for even more distortion. But it still can’t be made to distort in the manner of Waves, Sonnox, Xenon type a and b, or Weiss, which is really weird sounding. It can’t even get weird mids like limitless. It’s the wrong type of plug for that. also the multiband crossovers are at 160hz and 6khz so it won’t rebalance mixes for you unless you learn to use the focus knob, high frequency limiter, and different clipper options. The cleanliness has a rather steep learning curve if you want to keep an imbalanced, too dynamic mix under control. |
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Post by ab101 on Jun 2, 2021 19:52:19 GMT -6
Hmm, never tried Sonnox but TDR Limiter 6 gave out way before Ozone / Pro-L did on my stuff. Although for 30 I'd happily use it in-chain anyway so I'll probably pick it up. What do you mean by giving out? Limiter 6 on insane has the lowest distortion of any current digital limiter. It doesn’t distort so it squishes instead of getting slightly distorted. But of course the bigger peaks you feed it (typically from lack of effective digital dynamics control) the more it will distort like any compressor because it’s advanced detector is catching those peaks and squishing them down as advertised unlike most look ahead limiters. The squish is because it’s attacking and releasing as set on whatever crosses the detectors. So you can make it very small and incredibly weak sounding without a ton of harshness. Most lookahead limiters are random distortion machines which is why they sound harsh after 1-2 db of gr at most but can sound better with that. The imd can be a nice sort of saturation. If you want to distort a bit, reduce the release time and use only 1x lookahead. Eco mode for even more distortion. But it still can’t be made to distort in the manner of Waves, Sonnox, Xenon type a and b, or Weiss, which is really weird sounding. It can’t even get weird mids like limitless. It’s the wrong type of plug for that. also the multiband crossovers are at 160hz and 6khz so it won’t rebalance mixes for you unless you learn to use the focus knob, high frequency limiter, and different clipper options. The cleanliness has a rather steep learning curve if you want to keep an imbalanced, too dynamic mix under control. Dan - this is good news. I want to check out the Limiter 6. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2021 20:05:27 GMT -6
Hmm, never tried Sonnox but TDR Limiter 6 gave out way before Ozone / Pro-L did on my stuff. Although for 30 I'd happily use it in-chain anyway so I'll probably pick it up. What do you mean by giving out? Limiter 6 on insane has the lowest distortion of any current digital limiter. It doesn’t distort so it squishes instead of getting slightly distorted. But of course the bigger peaks you feed it (typically from lack of effective digital dynamics control) the more it will distort like any compressor because it’s advanced detector is catching those peaks and squishing them down as advertised unlike most look ahead limiters. The squish is because it’s attacking and releasing as set on whatever crosses the detectors. So you can make it very small and incredibly weak sounding without a ton of harshness. Most lookahead limiters are random distortion machines which is why they sound harsh after 1-2 db of gr at most but can sound better with that. The imd can be a nice sort of saturation. If you want to distort a bit, reduce the release time and use only 1x lookahead. Eco mode for even more distortion. But it still can’t be made to distort in the manner of Waves, Sonnox, Xenon type a and b, or Weiss, which is really weird sounding. It can’t even get weird mids like limitless. It’s the wrong type of plug for that. It began to distort when pushed compared to relative LUFS from other plugs (in short I could get others louder before it crapped out), I understand how brickwalls work I've been doing this 25(ish)? Years now and used everything from TC brickwall to, Slate, OZone, Pro-L etc. Yes, yes.. After -12 it becomes mainly pointless nowday's due to normalisation, still if memory serves correctly going easy with the limiter in brick wall mode / ISP / (-1dB GR) then gradually massaging the comp / clipper / other components settled everything down but the end result was quieter than Ozone, although when not pushing it too hard it does seem to mess with things less than others. There's a metric ton of potential suggestions here even from TDL and I tried a fair few: gearspace.com/board/product-alerts-older-than-2-months/1163311-tdr-limiter-6-ge-tokyo-dawn-records-5.htmlThen again I'm not sure how much metal you do? Might work better on other materials although metal is generally squished into a sign wave before it ever hits the limiter anyway. |
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Post by popmann on Jun 3, 2021 8:37:41 GMT -6
TDR Limiter 6 is the cleanliness champ for the actual limiter part. Insane mode is unbeatable. The BX_limiter was a frickin joke in comparison. Only PSP Xenon oversampled with detector C comes close but it doesn’t do anything to the high end. Detectors A and B are more like Waves. I end up using Slick Eq Ge and PSP Master q2 for workhorse mixing eqs. Sometimes infinistrip but I’m going to replace it on this recent mix. Hmm, never tried Sonnox but TDR Limiter 6 gave out way before Ozone / Pro-L did on my stuff. Although for 30 I'd happily use it in-chain anyway so I'll probably pick it up. popmann "Maybe the quality of the AVERAGE audio plug in is going up or something..." Are you saying there was good and bad plugs or they're all mediocre but the average level is rising? Im simply speculating on why people think the quality is rising so dramatically. Ive done this a long time and thats not been my experience. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2021 9:18:59 GMT -6
Oxford Dynamics can be super cool too. It is the most insane early dsp dynamics along with blockfish. The only problem is it’s a lot more colored and imposing than Sony and Sonnox would like to admit. It doesn’t have the program dependencies and useful non linear behavior of classic hardware and the best modern plugs.
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Post by Mister Chase on Jun 3, 2021 9:22:23 GMT -6
What do you mean by giving out? Limiter 6 on insane has the lowest distortion of any current digital limiter. It doesn’t distort so it squishes instead of getting slightly distorted. But of course the bigger peaks you feed it (typically from lack of effective digital dynamics control) the more it will distort like any compressor because it’s advanced detector is catching those peaks and squishing them down as advertised unlike most look ahead limiters. The squish is because it’s attacking and releasing as set on whatever crosses the detectors. So you can make it very small and incredibly weak sounding without a ton of harshness. Most lookahead limiters are random distortion machines which is why they sound harsh after 1-2 db of gr at most but can sound better with that. The imd can be a nice sort of saturation. If you want to distort a bit, reduce the release time and use only 1x lookahead. Eco mode for even more distortion. But it still can’t be made to distort in the manner of Waves, Sonnox, Xenon type a and b, or Weiss, which is really weird sounding. It can’t even get weird mids like limitless. It’s the wrong type of plug for that. It began to distort when pushed compared to relative LUFS from other plugs (in short I could get others louder before it crapped out), I understand how brickwalls work I've been doing this 25(ish)? Years now and used everything from TC brickwall to, Slate, OZone, Pro-L etc. Yes, yes.. After -12 it becomes mainly pointless nowday's due to normalisation, still if memory serves correctly going easy with the limiter in brick wall mode / ISP / (-1dB GR) then gradually massaging the comp / clipper / other components settled everything down but the end result was quieter than Ozone, although when not pushing it too hard it does seem to mess with things less than others. There's a metric ton of potential suggestions here even from TDL and I tried a fair few: gearspace.com/board/product-alerts-older-than-2-months/1163311-tdr-limiter-6-ge-tokyo-dawn-records-5.htmlThen again I'm not sure how much metal you do? Might work better on other materials although metal is generally squished into a sign wave before it ever hits the limiter anyway. Yes but have you tried this mode?
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Post by Mister Chase on Jun 3, 2021 9:24:26 GMT -6
Oxford Dynamics can be super cool too. It is the most insane early dsp dynamics along with blockfish. The only problem is it’s a lot more colored and imposing than Sony and Sonnox would like to admit. It doesn’t have the program dependencies and useful non linear behavior of classic hardware and the best modern plugs. True. It's useful if it's the sound you want. I just heard back from Sonnox and they don't have plans for a wet/dry function which is quite disappointing as I feel that should be standard on any plugin these days dealing with dynamics. They are working on scalable UI's but admit that most of their resources are going towards making M1 and Big Sur work. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2021 9:33:01 GMT -6
Yes but have you tried this mode?
Yes but it did occur to me I never tried using it the retro way, PCM mode drop BW to -0.5 limit / use the clipper function more extensively and care little about ISP's. That's how a lot of ME's are still doing things so?! I have noticed ISP based limiters have a habit of warping dynamics. I will buy it again regardless, it can do wonders on a drum buss as well.. TDR6 is quite a bit more than just a mastering limiter. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2021 9:36:34 GMT -6
Hmm, never tried Sonnox but TDR Limiter 6 gave out way before Ozone / Pro-L did on my stuff. Although for 30 I'd happily use it in-chain anyway so I'll probably pick it up. popmann "Maybe the quality of the AVERAGE audio plug in is going up or something..." Are you saying there was good and bad plugs or they're all mediocre but the average level is rising? Im simply speculating on why people think the quality is rising so dramatically. Ive done this a long time and thats not been my experience. The average quality is still incredibly awful . We still get FET emulations that leave icepicks behind like Waves, Stillwell, and Bomb Factory. These Sonnox dynamics plugs are still far above average and are based off ancient dsp. The best plugs are just really great now but it’s up to the user to discover them and learn how to use them. Yet we have videos and posts that show that many noted producers do not know how to use plugs and just insert them and gainstage into them like CLA does his hardware, they know what the quality settings due to behavior, insist that they can emulate a 1073 or anything API itb and nobody can tell the difference when many opamps and vca distortion profiles haven’t been emulated yet, overdrive them into red producing a crap ton of gross IMD, and the industry wonders why reissues of 30-50 year old music sells more. Digital lets us abuse it to a grinding etched distortion spite able to be cleaner than analog gear. If you abused most analog gear like that, it would sound awful. Yet there is a much wider variety of non-linear analog gear that both sounds acceptable and behaves as advertised. I’ve tried almost a every compressor plugin not the most recent UAD offerings and can pretty much count out how many behave acceptably or semi-acceptably and which are just random shit boxes that sometimes sound cool but don’t truly accomplish what you initially ask and expect of them. Component modeling is a dead end. The only successful ones emulate weird behavior and most fail to become workhorse compressors. There are zero 1176, La3a, or dbx 160 emulations that behave as advertised. There are developers trying to emulate hardware because model numbers sell when they can’t even get a basic digital compressor halfway right or even build a cool shit box like ReaComp. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2021 9:48:18 GMT -6
Yes but have you tried this mode?
Yes but it did occur to me I never tried using it the retro way, PCM mode drop BW to -0.5 limit / use the clipper function more extensively and care little about ISP's. That's how a lot of ME's are still doing things so?! I have noticed ISP based limiters have a habit of warping dynamics. I will buy it again regardless, it can do wonders on a drum buss as well.. TDR6 is quite a bit more than just a mastering limiter. I like to avoid hitter the isp limiter at all. They all sound like shit. I just make sure to have no intersample overs anyway. The bx limiter true peak is cleaner, more square wave, than the tdr one, which sounds like a clipper, even if the rest of it is dirtier but even still takes a big dump on the midrange |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2021 10:31:17 GMT -6
'The average quality is still incredibly awful' dan, you're not helping here (or maybe you are)? Is there a definitive list of good sounding ITB mixes out there (that aren't electro music)? I know Daft Punks get lucky was done on a Sony digital board (using Oxford plugs) as per this thread and it sound pretty good to me. Then again it is rather sparse. |
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Post by ragan on Jun 3, 2021 10:37:03 GMT -6
Dan (obviously) has some extremely strong opinions on plugins (which is totally fine of course) but I don't tend to agree with a lot of them. I like TDR Nova for dynamic EQ, quite a bit. It's good. And I think TDR is a cool, small operation. But I don't think Limiter 6 or Kotelnikov or Molot sound super great. Certainly useable stuff, and I like supporting small devs, but all the hyperbole about "absolutely unmatched" and "destroys everything else" and what-have-you....ehhh, not to my ear they don't, at all. Plugin Doctor (apparently) tells a different story but that's not where the rubber meets the road for making records. Same with most of the Klanghelm stuff (another company I patronize and think is cool). And as for "broken", "icepicks", and all that stuff...sorry, but that's a daily eye-roll for me.
As always, this stuff is subjective and just because someone has a great quantity of frequently stated opinions doesn't make them any more qualitatively valid.
And as far as top-shelf ITB mixers "not knowing how to use plugins"...uh, LOL. That's ridiculous.
And Dan, I mean this as no slight to you. You just proclaim a lot of stuff so sometimes it's good to contextualize it with some other views.
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Post by Guitar on Jun 3, 2021 16:25:43 GMT -6
Just wanted to say, to add some more context, I've been quietly admiring Dan's unusual posts for some time now. I started applying some of the specific methods and plugins I picked up from reading and have gotten some great results. I have a new drum template in the works, that's a different flavor from the one I've been using for 2 years, darker, more natural. The guy is onto something!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2021 16:36:28 GMT -6
You know, I've listened to every side of the story from drBill, Dan, Ragan, Kcat, Monkey, Eppstein, Svart, Schmalzy etc. I've tried to correct my own biases especially as HW isn't cheap, listened to a ton of tracks ITB / OTB, read several articles, even perused GS and tested plugs against my own hardware. After all that I didn't really come to a conclusion HA.! I think some hardware sucks, some plugins suck and vice versa. Some of the UA stuff doesn't sound like the HW they mimic and in some cases that's a good thing especially when they're cleaner than the original, but sometimes they do which is great as well. Some ITB mixes I did prefer and it really came down to which type of material was being processed for me. In a hard rock / metal mix I want the guitars out the way, a nice bit of actual transformer phase smearing making things artificially wide works in that measure, that's the one place I've always struggled with ITB stereo width and M/S trickery or widening plugs just don't work IMO (let's not get started with pan law, I spent a month in Samplitude messing around with all of that years back).. In an acoustic / more minimalist setup I want clean / up front / stronger centre image and plugs / ITB do a great job of that. Also I'm using references but I don't know what they did to a track? I said some ITB mixes sound "flat" but if I hit my HW LA-2A too hard everything does sound flat and as many have specified "two dimensional". So how do I know they haven't just royally messed things up? Not every ITB track sounds like that so.. A bit of dynamic range goes a long way. My plugins bar some mastering purchases (as brickwall limiters are IMO better ITB) are all over a decade old, I'm not playing on an even field so that will of course skew my opinion. I still love hardware but I've personally never been a fan of the workflow, cost, maintenance, heat or space they take up. Although IF I ever get a demo released and decide to continue I will buy a Trident 78 with a full rack of outboard, simply because I like the feedback of it all. For now my decent set of tracking HW will do.. So after days pondering on the subject, creating some real in depth analysis my final musing was.. I don't really care anymore  . > Goes to UA website.... |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2021 20:07:58 GMT -6
Dan (obviously) has some extremely strong opinions on plugins (which is totally fine of course) but I don't tend to agree with a lot of them. I like TDR Nova for dynamic EQ, quite a bit. It's good. And I think TDR is a cool, small operation. But I don't think Limiter 6 or Kotelnikov or Molot sound super great. Certainly useable stuff, and I like supporting small devs, but all the hyperbole about "absolutely unmatched" and "destroys everything else" and what-have-you....ehhh, not to my ear they don't, at all. Plugin Doctor (apparently) tells a different story but that's not where the rubber meets the road for making records. Same with most of the Klanghelm stuff (another company I patronize and think is cool). And as for "broken", "icepicks", and all that stuff...sorry, but that's a daily eye-roll for me. As always, this stuff is subjective and just because someone has a great quantity of frequently stated opinions doesn't make them any more qualitatively valid. And as far as top-shelf ITB mixers "not knowing how to use plugins"...uh, LOL. That's ridiculous. And Dan, I mean this as no slight to you. You just proclaim a lot of stuff so sometimes it's good to contextualize it with some other views. Plugin doctor only shows aliasing in the sound path, not the control path. The biggest problems of digital dynamics processors are the oft random misbehaviors of older DSP because the control path is both aliased and not representative of the audio path. Try to take the stick hit transient off a drum with them and you’ll often create a weird resonance that wasn’t there before if not a click (CLA 76 and VLA FET. Some Slate plugs) because the sidechain can’t detect the peaks. You can’t even rectify the signal cleanly at 44.1 or 48 and threshold itself is basically a clipper. This is why plugin compressors used to sound so bad. Oxford Dynamics, Renaissance Compressor, and dare I say it Blockfish were the best ones looking back at it. Now there are a lot of digital dynamics processors that sound good at slower attack and release rates but fail horribly at faster ones. That’s the biggest problem: fast attack or release. Most plugs just can’t do it and collapse, eg The Pulsar plugs need lookahead, Trackcomp 2 can go haywire, all of the DBX 160 plugs are off but even the Waves one doesn’t sound bad per say. They’re not as gross as Waves CLA 76 but they still get gross. Most of the analog modeled ones that aren’t leaving behind too many random artifacts (you can even see them on render. I know seeing and not hearing) tend to sound a bit too much like clippers to me. — instead of /\ which can be cool, the Kush plugs are super cool sounding, but it’s an effect. Some have always worked with lookaheads like Oxford Dynamics but got dirtier. A few of the flexible compressors solved this without lookaheads (which don’t improve the detector) like Kotelnikov, DC8C3, Unisum, and Molot GE but you have to figure out out how to set them correctly to do what you want in terms of dynamics and may or may not like the sound. A few plugs emulate specific behavior of hardware compressors that aren’t as flexible and unfortunate mostly didn’t copy something as useful as an 1176 or LA3A because they’ve been done to death. The CPU use is of course rather high. The digital situation is the opposite of hardware where the best stuff is simple and easy to figure out without listening to a drum loop or vocal take for an hour. The not great hardware designs are complex. Digital swung the other way where most of the man hours went into making utilitarian multi tools they’re still tinkering and the simple stuff was seemingly made to make a quick buck on a regular schedule, taking advantage of how it’s an ersatz of a hardware piece. Now I seem to only use the multi tools and the emulations of the most out there stuff. |
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. > Goes to UA website....