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Post by drbill on Apr 6, 2018 17:15:52 GMT -6
What does this have to do with mics? NOTHING! So, back to mics, eh? Viable alternatives to C12 for OH? Perhaps the new Redd's? Haven't had a chance to try those out yet. Dying to though..... Lucas CS-1s are pretty great in my experience. Mixed some Flea 12 OHs recently but the room wasn't doing them any major favors. Those don't seem to be too readily available. I'd guess snagging a pair would be like finding a pair of C12's FS (although certainly much cheaper....)
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Post by happychap on Apr 6, 2018 17:18:59 GMT -6
So, are you saying that they don't charge enough to cover expenses? What does this have to do with mics? NOTHING! So, back to mics, eh? Viable alternatives to C12 for OH? Perhaps the new Redd's? Haven't had a chance to try those out yet. Dying to though..... Sheeesh! Ok- here's a mic question: What's the last project you used C12's for OH's?
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Post by sean on Apr 6, 2018 17:20:31 GMT -6
Well, Sound Emporium is owned by Lipscomb University, so I’m not sure how important it is for them to make a large profit.
As someone who has worked on records that were recorded with CAD microphones and hay bales as baffles I can tell you what’s in front of the microphone is really all that matters
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Post by notneeson on Apr 6, 2018 17:33:03 GMT -6
Lucas CS-1s are pretty great in my experience. Mixed some Flea 12 OHs recently but the room wasn't doing them any major favors. Those don't seem to be too readily available. I'd guess snagging a pair would be like finding a pair of C12's FS (although certainly much cheaper....) Indeed. I was talking to Scott McChane (one of the Tape Op crew and a working AE) when he very kindly assisted me on a tracking date and Scott thought the Wunder version was quite close to the Lucas FWIW.
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Post by drbill on Apr 6, 2018 18:16:13 GMT -6
What does this have to do with mics? NOTHING! So, back to mics, eh? Viable alternatives to C12 for OH? Perhaps the new Redd's? Haven't had a chance to try those out yet. Dying to though..... Sheeesh! Ok- here's a mic question: What's the last project you used C12's for OH's? Your topic is great. But I don't think it's done justice in this thread. Last project I'm positive I used C12's on OH's was for Disney I think. One of their Cable Movies - or could have been for Tokyo Disney Seas. I'm fuzzy on what the project was actually for (did so much work for them 15 years ago), but I can remember the sound like it was yesterday. :-) BTW, it was at O'Henry's. Now owned by some private party who doesn't need to sell time to keep a major studio open.
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Post by happychap on Apr 6, 2018 18:51:39 GMT -6
Well, Sound Emporium is owned by Lipscomb University, so I’m not sure how important it is for them to make a large profit. As someone who has worked on records that were recorded with CAD microphones and hay bales as baffles I can tell you what’s in front of the microphone is really all that matters The Lipscomb connection sounds familiar. I recorded there with Dave Sinko in the B-room, not sure if Cowboy Jack stilled owned it then. And when it comes to drums, it seems the THE ROOM gets mentioned a whole lot more than the mics. And you alluded to that in your first reply. So perhaps the OP should be asking about the best big studio drum rooms, rather than mics.
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Post by drbill on Apr 6, 2018 19:03:23 GMT -6
I think the OP has his own drum room. Hence the question on mics. That's my guess anyway.....
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Post by EmRR on Apr 6, 2018 19:06:19 GMT -6
It does strike me as weird to say, face value, these are the mics I expect to find in a large commercial facility for tracking drums. More, these are the mics that I feel comfortable encountering in a hired room, and that's gonna differ per engineer, per style, per technique, etc etc etc. And then the room may dictate which sounds best in it.
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Post by klauth on Apr 6, 2018 22:12:25 GMT -6
I think the OP has his own drum room. Hence the question on mics. That's my guess anyway..... Yes, I do. and I appreciate your sharing here, very much so. I'm curious as to what inspires you reach for the c12's?
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Post by drbill on Apr 6, 2018 22:25:24 GMT -6
I think the OP has his own drum room. Hence the question on mics. That's my guess anyway..... Yes, I do. and I appreciate your sharing here, very much so. I'm curious as to what inspires you reach for the c12's?Bigness / Size, detail & clarity, a defined and elegant sound, and the depth.
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Post by drbill on Apr 6, 2018 22:29:02 GMT -6
It does strike me as weird to say, face value, these are the mics I expect to find in a large commercial facility for tracking drums. More, these are the mics that I feel comfortable encountering in a hired room, and that's gonna differ per engineer, per style, per technique, etc etc etc. And then the room may dictate which sounds best in it. Klauth did say DESIRE / EXPECT. I do not expect to find all the mics on my list. I desire them though. Given a decent room - and really, the room is moot for this discussion - I can get by with a fraction of what I spec'd. But I know if those are all there, I can record any drummer, any kit (again, aside from some monstrous mega-kit) in any of the rooms and come out with a good sounding recording. The room and drums - and to a lesser degree the playing - will absolutely dictate what to use. I like to have options. Hence the 5 different sets of possible overheads I spec'd. I wasn't going to suggest using ALL of em for OH.
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Post by klauth on Apr 6, 2018 22:50:51 GMT -6
(Preface to my original post)I suppose,the idealist in me... is what gets the better of me in the forum world. when I post, the passion I have for the craft of tracking drums assumes that, I'm reaching out to like minded brethren so, I would assume that they have been in the game long enough to know that when I ask about gear specifically, they assume the room, player kit etc. is on par with their own expectations. And sadly, the ignorant side of me hopes for genuine interest. Gear is what I enjoy so, and in a strange backwards way, music is an excuse to aquifer and use it. and an unforeseen bi product of my gear fetish has entered me into a new, and rewarding world of fellow recording enthusiasts. whether they be professional working class engineers or dilatants like myself. it is a world of joy to be with people who share the desire and expectations of fine equipment so, again, I thank you all for insights, tolerance and generosity for your love of the craft -AMEN.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Apr 7, 2018 17:09:24 GMT -6
In 1973 some friends and I had a backer to build a 2 room studio in San Francisco. Our break-even rate for 40 hours a week was $60 an hour with no recording engineer. We didn't proceed because people were selling 24 track time for $40 an hour including an engineer and there hadn't been the expected migration of label work from LA because there weren't nearly enough studios in the Bay Area.
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Post by rowmat on Apr 7, 2018 17:31:57 GMT -6
In 1973 some friends and I had a backer to build a 2 room studio in San Francisco. Our break-even rate for 40 hours a week was $60 an hour with no recording engineer. We didn't proceed because people were selling 24 track time for $40 an hour including an engineer and there hadn't been the expected migration of label work from LA because there weren't nearly enough studios in the Bay Area. And 45 years later in 2018 $60 an hour is probably close to the going rate for many small to mid-size studios!
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Post by jamiesego on Apr 7, 2018 18:53:04 GMT -6
Maybe someone should start a separate thread for the business conversation. It's interesting.
Does anyone think it's imperative to spend time tracking in a very high end room to have some kind of sonic benchmark in your head? I'm lucky to be in a professionally designed room built in 1978, but I imagine the design is a little different than modern room. The gear I've been able to acquire is pretty much mid-level too..
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Post by jcoutu1 on Apr 7, 2018 20:24:37 GMT -6
Maybe someone should start a separate thread for the business conversation. It's interesting. Does anyone think it's imperative to spend time tracking in a very high end room to have some kind of sonic benchmark in your head? I'm lucky to be in a professionally designed room built in 1978, but I imagine the design is a little different than modern room. The gear I've been able to acquire is pretty much mid-level too.. Care to show some pics? I'm in a room from the late 70s early 80s too.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Apr 7, 2018 22:24:58 GMT -6
The reason for tracking in a high-end room is speed. That means recording an ensemble of great musicians and having enough great microphones to record alternative setups simultaneously. The best rooms also sound incredible. The first time I opened a drum overhead U67 at Quad's original studio blew me away.
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Post by keymod on Apr 8, 2018 4:47:34 GMT -6
Maybe someone should start a separate thread for the business conversation. It's interesting. Does anyone think it's imperative to spend time tracking in a very high end room to have some kind of sonic benchmark in your head? I'm lucky to be in a professionally designed room built in 1978, but I imagine the design is a little different than modern room. The gear I've been able to acquire is pretty much mid-level too.. Care to show some pics? I'm in a room from the late 70s early 80s too. Same here, my room was purpose-built in 1978. As a mid-level place, I think it sounds , and feels, wonderful. Jesse's place and mine are very similar.
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Post by Ward on Apr 8, 2018 7:52:15 GMT -6
Seems expectations are still very high despite the fact that recording studios are very unsafe bets at this time. Every client out there wants everything for less and less, and the value of the work has depreciated even more.
And yet, the expense is just as high.
Musicians, even labels, can't afford the ticket these days... and the stuff that subsidized everyone else (ADR, soundtrack, choir, string section, symphonic recording) has likewise turned into additional 'poor mouth' clientele. Times is hard!
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Post by swurveman on Apr 8, 2018 8:00:03 GMT -6
Sheeesh! Ok- here's a mic question: What's the last project you used C12's for OH's? BTW, it was at O'Henry's. Now owned by some private party who doesn't need to sell time to keep a major studio open. The Eagles recorded "Long Road Out of Eden" at O'Henry' along with other studios. I read some article that in the post MCI Hotel California days The Eagles preferred API preamps for recording. Or maybe just Henley. Not sure.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Apr 8, 2018 14:00:07 GMT -6
In many ways your asking the wrong people this question, the ones you really need to ask are your clients and potential clients. Now I’m going to tell you a dirty secret that Nobody who sells gear wants you to know, you don’t need the high dollar gear for a great drum sound! I have know a number of low end and mid level studios who’s entire reputation has/ is based on their drum sound, they have invested time in learning their tools and what works in their rooms. Others come to them for their sound! One of these guys was based out of Houston ( can’t remember his name and he left after Ike) is the reason I started buying up old AKG D1000/1200’s these things are cheap and he made them sound huge in his room. In the 90’s in Madison John Machnik was getting more indie Lable work in his Basement ADAT based minimal treated Sleepless Nights than that stupid Stroyk designed Glass with sliding heavy curtains room at SMART!
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Post by drbill on Apr 8, 2018 14:29:38 GMT -6
Eric - it all depends on if you're selling time to bands / musicians or to engineers. The engineers are going to want the top level options. Musicians will trend towards the sound of your last good project.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Apr 8, 2018 15:11:40 GMT -6
The thing about working in a top level studio is that nobody has any excuses.
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Post by klauth on Apr 8, 2018 15:12:43 GMT -6
The thing about working in a top level studio is that nobody has any excuses. Thank you !!!
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Post by klauth on Apr 8, 2018 15:15:15 GMT -6
you don’t need the high dollar gear for a great drum sound! And you don't need a Rolls Royce to get to work.... But it sure makes you smile.
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