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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 31, 2018 18:24:13 GMT -6
Quick Walk-through
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Post by jeromemason on Mar 31, 2018 19:05:30 GMT -6
So the different transformers and DOA's for the A/B buss are in the ACA right? When you hit between the A/B it's not changing the trannies/DOA's for each channel right?
Also, idea when is this going to drop and I'm guessing it's kits but making sure it's not something like the Heider where it's a retail unit.
And lastly, I'm guessing this has a typical backplane so you can build this in stages regarding how many channels you need/want. And is there any idea or a ball park on what the entry cost will be? Say for the full kit and enough components for 8 channels.
Thanks! Can't wait to build mine. Any idea as well on what feels the best in terms of how to hit it? Level wise is there a spot where it feels like it opens up? This is essentially like sitting behind a big ole vintage API console. The SSL I mixed on had a sweet spot usually on the VU it was about +2db, the mix opened up, the bass got solid and glued in the middle and the punch of the console came out of no where. I'm cool with doing ITB and have accepted it, but there was always that element of mixing on a console that made it fun. I'm going to put my money on this unit will feel like a console, knowing Jeff's design and approach from past he wouldn't put something out like this unless it really felt like a console.
Thanks for the vid,
Jerome
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Post by wiz on Mar 31, 2018 19:21:51 GMT -6
So the different transformers and DOA's for the A/B buss are in the ACA right? When you hit between the A/B it's not changing the trannies/DOA's for each channel right? Also, idea when is this going to drop and I'm guessing it's kits but making sure it's not something like the Heider where it's a retail unit. And lastly, I'm guessing this has a typical backplane so you can build this in stages regarding how many channels you need/want. And is there any idea or a ball park on what the entry cost will be? Say for the full kit and enough components for 8 channels. Thanks! Can't wait to build mine. Any idea as well on what feels the best in terms of how to hit it? Level wise is there a spot where it feels like it opens up? This is essentially like sitting behind a big ole vintage API console. The SSL I mixed on had a sweet spot usually on the VU it was about +2db, the mix opened up, the bass got solid and glued in the middle and the punch of the console came out of no where. I'm cool with doing ITB and have accepted it, but there was always that element of mixing on a console that made it fun. I'm going to put my money on this unit will feel like a console, knowing Jeff's design and approach from past he wouldn't put something out like this unless it really felt like a console. Thanks for the vid, Jerome Yeah ditto |
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Mar 31, 2018 19:41:58 GMT -6
This thing is completely bad ass. I can attest. Just give Jeff your money. Trust me.
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Post by roundbadge on Mar 31, 2018 19:48:03 GMT -6
so friggin rad.wanna put this next to my api console.
bet it[capi] sounds better
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 31, 2018 20:36:26 GMT -6
I mixed a tune into it and I’ve got to have it. Not a subtle difference. Tighter bottom, smoother top, not sure if the soundstage is wider per se, but it’s deeper or something...and the punch. My God. The itb Mix is flabby and two dimensional in comparison. And this was extremely evident even through 8 channels. Imagine 32.
Yes, Jerome...it will be a kit and modular. There are different outputs for the separate buses so it’s an either or. You could hook em both up and go back and forth. Not totally sure, but I guess to configure a second bus means more money. I’ll prob just stick with the more colored version.
I haven’t really pushed into it, but it definitely has more headroom than itb. I’m sure it can get dirty just like a VP28. It loses about 6 db of gain - I actually ran it into a pair of vp28 and made up gain...I’ll have to play around - I’m not used to taking faders up in PTs - used to yanking them down lol.
Not sure what pricing is going to be - obviously depends on the configuration. But it’s going to be crazy cheap compared to others in its class.
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 31, 2018 20:37:49 GMT -6
So the different transformers and DOA's for the A/B buss are in the ACA right? When you hit between the A/B it's not changing the trannies/DOA's for each channel right? Also, idea when is this going to drop and I'm guessing it's kits but making sure it's not something like the Heider where it's a retail unit. And lastly, I'm guessing this has a typical backplane so you can build this in stages regarding how many channels you need/want. And is there any idea or a ball park on what the entry cost will be? Say for the full kit and enough components for 8 channels. Thanks! Can't wait to build mine. Any idea as well on what feels the best in terms of how to hit it? Level wise is there a spot where it feels like it opens up? This is essentially like sitting behind a big ole vintage API console. The SSL I mixed on had a sweet spot usually on the VU it was about +2db, the mix opened up, the bass got solid and glued in the middle and the punch of the console came out of no where. I'm cool with doing ITB and have accepted it, but there was always that element of mixing on a console that made it fun. I'm going to put my money on this unit will feel like a console, knowing Jeff's design and approach from past he wouldn't put something out like this unless it really felt like a console. Thanks for the vid, Jerome Oh and yeah - output trannies in the ACA. |
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Post by roundbadge on Mar 31, 2018 20:39:17 GMT -6
I've literally told every guy who's thinking of a summing box to wait for this one.
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Post by jeromemason on Mar 31, 2018 21:02:05 GMT -6
I'd love to configure one of those busses to have an ultra clean buss, something like Forsell DOA's and a more Lundahl'ish output tranny.
I guess I need to go through all of those pics Jeff would post of the modular cards to see what each card has on it, like if it's running it's own DOA/Tranny and then goes into the ACA. IME that's great, but getting too much color you will lose that deep sub, making you have to push that harder into it and cutting the headroom down. Kind of will make an unbalanced mix. I'm sure this sucker can be configured 20 different ways, that's what I love about the DIY route. The thing that sets Jeff a part is his amazing design, it really allows you a lot of wiggle room in customizing those units.
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Post by roundbadge on Mar 31, 2018 21:13:16 GMT -6
I'd love to configure one of those busses to have an ultra clean buss, something like Forsell DOA's and a more Lundahl'ish output tranny. I guess I need to go through all of those pics Jeff would post of the modular cards to see what each card has on it, like if it's running it's own DOA/Tranny and then goes into the ACA. IME that's great, but getting too much color you will lose that deep sub, making you have to push that harder into it and cutting the headroom down. Kind of will make an unbalanced mix. I'm sure this sucker can be configured 20 different ways, that's what I love about the DIY route. The thing that sets Jeff a part is his amazing design, it really allows you a lot of wiggle room in customizing those units. the litz red output trannies are awesome. I replaced every one of my api console tx w/ those..around 48 tx's |
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 31, 2018 22:10:58 GMT -6
Have to get Jeff in here to answer some questions.
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Post by bram on Apr 2, 2018 0:23:51 GMT -6
Gotta say I’m really excited about this one, thanks for the mini walkthrough. Looks like the video cut off mid-sentence - more to come??
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 2, 2018 7:26:56 GMT -6
I’ve got it for a few more days so if you guys want to see anything let me know.
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Post by Blackdawg on Apr 2, 2018 9:24:28 GMT -6
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Post by gabygab2 on Apr 2, 2018 9:42:44 GMT -6
Hi!
First, thanks to every one in this community for being such a great resource for a budding audio nerd.
Second, the concept of summing is a little foreign to me. It seems tricky to quantify and qualify. I currently run all my mixes through 2 CAPI VP28. Aside from the choice of transformers in the CAPI SumBus, is there any difference between running stems through a SumBus versus running stems through a bunch of VP28? I figure the VP28 are more useful because they can be used as preamps as well as a line-in. Thanks very much!
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Post by Blackdawg on Apr 2, 2018 10:02:17 GMT -6
Hi! First, thanks to every one in this community for being such a great resource for a budding audio nerd. Second, the concept of summing is a little foreign to me. It seems tricky to quantify and qualify. I currently run all my mixes through 2 CAPI VP28. Aside from the choice of transformers in the CAPI SumBus, is there any difference between running stems through a SumBus versus running stems through a bunch of VP28? I figure the VP28 are more useful because they can be used as preamps as well as a line-in. Thanks very much! Yes a big difference. What you are doing now is great and no doubt adds cool vibe to your sound. What you are doing though is still summing ITB. So the computer is doing all the math and combining the multiple siginals to give you a stereo mix. The summing mixer you send individual signals to it and let the analog electronics combine them into stereo. Granted this depends on how much I/O you have. If you only have 8 outs you would have to break your session down into 8 outputs. Maybe vocals, guitars, bass, drums, keyboards, horns, strings reverb, effects or something like that. The more I/O you have and the more busses the summing mixer has the more you can break it out. If you haven't had the pleasure of working on a larger format console it is very hard to describe the difference. Most terms you'll hear are a deeper wider sound stage. More open feeling and better balance. Its a baby console essentially. If you are really interested in what summing can do, Id suggest buying this: www.diyrecordingequipment.com/products/sb2-16x2-passive-summing-mixer About the cheapest summing mixer there is (and easiest to build) and it will not be anywhere near as awesome as this CAPI mixer due to it just being a passive network vs the active network of the CAPI. However, if you grab the SB2 and break out a mix to it then use youre VP28s to do the make up gain(basically the same as the ACA in the CAPI mixer) I promise you'll love it. Then you'll just want one of these bad boys! |
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 2, 2018 10:16:29 GMT -6
Even 8 channels is enough to give me the “damnit, now I’ve heard it and I don’t want to live without it” thing. Unfortunately, I can’t buy MORE I/O and the SumBus...but if it gets even better with more channels, good Lord. So I’m going to start with 8 channels of the SB and maybe add in the future.
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Post by gabygab2 on Apr 2, 2018 10:32:28 GMT -6
Hi! First, thanks to every one in this community for being such a great resource for a budding audio nerd. Second, the concept of summing is a little foreign to me. It seems tricky to quantify and qualify. I currently run all my mixes through 2 CAPI VP28. Aside from the choice of transformers in the CAPI SumBus, is there any difference between running stems through a SumBus versus running stems through a bunch of VP28? I figure the VP28 are more useful because they can be used as preamps as well as a line-in. Thanks very much! Yes a big difference. What you are doing now is great and no doubt adds cool vibe to your sound. What you are doing though is still summing ITB. So the computer is doing all the math and combining the multiple siginals to give you a stereo mix. The summing mixer you send individual signals to it and let the analog electronics combine them into stereo. Granted this depends on how much I/O you have. If you only have 8 outs you would have to break your session down into 8 outputs. Maybe vocals, guitars, bass, drums, keyboards, horns, strings reverb, effects or something like that. The more I/O you have and the more busses the summing mixer has the more you can break it out. If you haven't had the pleasure of working on a larger format console it is very hard to describe the difference. Most terms you'll hear are a deeper wider sound stage. More open feeling and better balance. Its a baby console essentially. If you are really interested in what summing can do, Id suggest buying this: www.diyrecordingequipment.com/products/sb2-16x2-passive-summing-mixer About the cheapest summing mixer there is (and easiest to build) and it will not be anywhere near as awesome as this CAPI mixer due to it just being a passive network vs the active network of the CAPI. However, if you grab the SB2 and break out a mix to it then use youre VP28s to do the make up gain(basically the same as the ACA in the CAPI mixer) I promise you'll love it. Then you'll just want one of these bad boys! Thanks very much for the suggestion and the great info! In the mean time I will try running and printing my stems through the VP28s separately. I'm so happy with all my CAPI products, I'm looking forward to hearing what this will do to peoples' music. Cheers! |
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Post by Blackdawg on Apr 2, 2018 10:33:43 GMT -6
Even 8 channels is enough to give me the “damnit, now I’ve heard it and I don’t want to live without it” thing. Unfortunately, I can’t buy MORE I/O and the SumBus...but if it gets even better with more channels, good Lord. So I’m going to start with 8 channels of the SB and maybe add in the future. If I remember right I believe you can buy them in 8 channel chunks..so totally do able! why are you limited to 8ch I/O? I keep going back and forth on doing the single slots or dual slots.. |
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Post by Blackdawg on Apr 2, 2018 10:34:48 GMT -6
Yes a big difference. What you are doing now is great and no doubt adds cool vibe to your sound. What you are doing though is still summing ITB. So the computer is doing all the math and combining the multiple siginals to give you a stereo mix. The summing mixer you send individual signals to it and let the analog electronics combine them into stereo. Granted this depends on how much I/O you have. If you only have 8 outs you would have to break your session down into 8 outputs. Maybe vocals, guitars, bass, drums, keyboards, horns, strings reverb, effects or something like that. The more I/O you have and the more busses the summing mixer has the more you can break it out. If you haven't had the pleasure of working on a larger format console it is very hard to describe the difference. Most terms you'll hear are a deeper wider sound stage. More open feeling and better balance. Its a baby console essentially. If you are really interested in what summing can do, Id suggest buying this: www.diyrecordingequipment.com/products/sb2-16x2-passive-summing-mixer About the cheapest summing mixer there is (and easiest to build) and it will not be anywhere near as awesome as this CAPI mixer due to it just being a passive network vs the active network of the CAPI. However, if you grab the SB2 and break out a mix to it then use youre VP28s to do the make up gain(basically the same as the ACA in the CAPI mixer) I promise you'll love it. Then you'll just want one of these bad boys! Thanks very much for the suggestion and the great info! In the mean time I will try running and printing my stems through the VP28s separately. I'm so happy with all my CAPI products, I'm looking forward to hearing what this will do to peoples' music. Cheers! Well while running your tracks through the VP28s sparately will impart some vibe on each track, which will be cool, it will still be ITB summing so not really the same idea that we are talking. |
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Post by indiehouse on Apr 2, 2018 10:36:47 GMT -6
SumBus 1 or SumBus 2? What's the difference?
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Post by gabygab2 on Apr 2, 2018 10:40:02 GMT -6
Thanks very much for the suggestion and the great info! In the mean time I will try running and printing my stems through the VP28s separately. I'm so happy with all my CAPI products, I'm looking forward to hearing what this will do to peoples' music. Cheers! Well while running your tracks through the VP28s sparately will impart some vibe on each track, which will be cool, it will still be ITB summing so not really the same idea that we are talking. Oh right! Silly me, it's still getting summed ITB. In that case I'll save up some money for the SumBus  |
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Post by Blackdawg on Apr 2, 2018 10:44:30 GMT -6
SumBus 1 or SumBus 2? What's the difference? The 1 is the mono channels in the chassis. Has pan pots and level control max of 16x4 in a single unit. Plus you can use B as like an old school echo send. double is 2 channels per slot but only the push buttons. Max 32x4. Thats the one John has. You can see the difference here: http://instagr.am/p/Bd503obDaHE |
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 2, 2018 11:09:06 GMT -6
Even 8 channels is enough to give me the “damnit, now I’ve heard it and I don’t want to live without it” thing. Unfortunately, I can’t buy MORE I/O and the SumBus...but if it gets even better with more channels, good Lord. So I’m going to start with 8 channels of the SB and maybe add in the future. If I remember right I believe you can buy them in 8 channel chunks..so totally do able! why are you limited to 8ch I/O? I keep going back and forth on doing the single slots or dual slots.. Money lol |
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 2, 2018 11:09:57 GMT -6
Yes a big difference. What you are doing now is great and no doubt adds cool vibe to your sound. What you are doing though is still summing ITB. So the computer is doing all the math and combining the multiple siginals to give you a stereo mix. The summing mixer you send individual signals to it and let the analog electronics combine them into stereo. Granted this depends on how much I/O you have. If you only have 8 outs you would have to break your session down into 8 outputs. Maybe vocals, guitars, bass, drums, keyboards, horns, strings reverb, effects or something like that. The more I/O you have and the more busses the summing mixer has the more you can break it out. If you haven't had the pleasure of working on a larger format console it is very hard to describe the difference. Most terms you'll hear are a deeper wider sound stage. More open feeling and better balance. Its a baby console essentially. If you are really interested in what summing can do, Id suggest buying this: www.diyrecordingequipment.com/products/sb2-16x2-passive-summing-mixer About the cheapest summing mixer there is (and easiest to build) and it will not be anywhere near as awesome as this CAPI mixer due to it just being a passive network vs the active network of the CAPI. However, if you grab the SB2 and break out a mix to it then use youre VP28s to do the make up gain(basically the same as the ACA in the CAPI mixer) I promise you'll love it. Then you'll just want one of these bad boys! Thanks very much for the suggestion and the great info! In the mean time I will try running and printing my stems through the VP28s separately. I'm so happy with all my CAPI products, I'm looking forward to hearing what this will do to peoples' music. Cheers! More to come  |
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