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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 4, 2018 9:15:27 GMT -6
I would love to buy a Twin to use as a front end with my Symphony...I could use Console, have dsp for reverb monitoring, the ability to track with plugs if I want...but there’s no freaking digital out. It just blows my mind. I thought that was one of the upgrades they made in the MkII. Guess not.
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Post by mjheck on Feb 4, 2018 9:34:42 GMT -6
The BLA mod adds a digital out - or at least it did when I purchased it.
I also thought it was well worth it sonically - more than I would have guessed.
MJH
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Post by Guitar on Feb 5, 2018 8:24:59 GMT -6
I have always thought this was the biggest oversight with the Twin.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Feb 5, 2018 9:03:49 GMT -6
Oh the world of manufacturers and their choices. I can't remember how many times a manufacturer or their rep would ask " I can't understand why this isn't selling" well stupid me, I would always assume if your asking me you want the truth, and would tell them!
It still amazes me how many manufacturers think their stuff is inherently better, because well they made it !
It's not hard to look at the feature set of your competion or even more importantly talk to the people who are selling the gear and ask why this or that is selling! Instead they ask the bosses who haven't talked to a customer in years and look at marketing surveys!
I'll bet here is what happened, they did a survey that said the digital I/O was only a concern to say 48% of potential customers and of those say 30% ever use it! So hey your probably never going to use it
So we left it off to hit the price point.
Here is what they always miss, and numbers don't tell you this, you have to really, really know your customers to be able to get this .
There are buyers and then there are buyers who sell gear for you with no real relationship to you, they just use and love your product with no compensation! You have to pay special attention to these customers because in effect they are paying to spread your gospel better than any marketing you pay for!
Now personally I think the interfaces are not that important to UA other than the fact that they are the expensive crack pipe for the audio crack that is UA plugins! That's where the $$$ is for UA!
Also the fact that if you love that twin and find you need some digital I/O, well you need a better UA crack pipe and that sale will mean the gearpimp gets another sale, and a small piece of your UA addiction!
Well there are rules to the drug trade, and like any good dealer UA will help you out if you buy to many crack pipe upgrades!
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Post by raddistribution on Feb 5, 2018 12:59:57 GMT -6
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Post by Guitar on Feb 5, 2018 14:58:20 GMT -6
What I'd be looking for is ADAT out... still no bueno.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 5, 2018 20:48:42 GMT -6
My friend just bought a Focusrite Claret 4 Pre interface. It cost, I think $700. I'd swear it was clearer than the Apollo, but I'd need to have them in the same room with the same source to know for sure. This is what makes me hesitate to do Apollo mods. First, I wonder if another brand sounds a little better out of the box, (like the Focusrite), second, before spending a bunch more money on a mod, I think I'd do as well or better selling the Apollo and putting that extra money toward a second hand Symphony MKII.
I like the UAD Console interface, but can live without it, since I rarely print with plug-ins anyway, and I do have the Quad satellite, which would let me use some UAD plugs, maybe not as many as I like, but I haven't been using tons of them anymore either.
Talk about plug-ins, Apple just gave away two excellent EQ's (Neve and API style) and a nice reverb with the recent update, and I need UAD less and less. I still use the ATR-102 on the 2 bus on every track, but I don't need the EMT-140 as much since I got the free Sound Toys Little Plate and the Liquid Sonics 7th Heaven.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 5, 2018 22:24:58 GMT -6
Those Claretts and Scarlets are nice sounding boxes.
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Post by drsax on Feb 5, 2018 23:12:15 GMT -6
I tested the high end focusrites against The Apollo and Orion 32 last year. The focusrite was my least fav of the bunch. Right now I have the Apollo’s with a lynx Hilo da for playback and can A/B the DA’s at the push of a button on my monitor controller. Although I do prefer the Hilo DA, the Apollo is still excellent . Not too far off. What I have found when checking out other DA’s is that on first listen, my ear almost always enjoys hearing a new DA, but when AB’ing and checking translation, it can be a totally different story. That said, I think the lower end Focusrites are excellent for the money, although I’d still take Apollo MKII over them any day.
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Post by Guitar on Feb 6, 2018 7:52:59 GMT -6
I've owned all the Focusrite stuff other than the super high end RED interfaces.
I do think the Clarett is clearer sounding than the silver Apollo (what I have.) I have never tried the black Apollos.
Right now I track drums on Apollo, track vocals and instruments on the Presonus DP88 with my 500 series preamps.
Clarett is my main DAC for listening since it's my favorite. If I need to track pianos or synths my 1202 goes into the back of the Clarett and to Apollo via SPDIF.
I'm going to have a second DP88 for hybrid mixing (the big clarett was just unplugged yesterday), connected to the patchbay.
I paid $350 (plus tax and shipping) for my Clarett 4Pre, which is outrageous based on what it does.
The lower end Scarletts and Saffires are outstanding for what they cost, and what I usually recommend to people just starting out.
The new Clarett USB line offers an interesting value proposition since they are even cheaper, and will connect to more varieties of computers.
I'd say Apollo has a slightly better build quality. But the sound quality is there for Clarett.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,014
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Post by ericn on Feb 6, 2018 8:03:49 GMT -6
Those Claretts and Scarlets are nice sounding boxes. More and more other than DSP implementation all interface's are starting to sound the same, it's a good thing in the sense that they all are sounding good! Bad in the sense that it makes you wonder if all the non DSP development is being done by the OEM's and when are we going to see a Behringer version! |
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Post by Guitar on Feb 6, 2018 9:27:32 GMT -6
On paper the Clarett and black Apollo specs are pretty close. The Apollo just barely edges it out on dynamic range. Apollo does not have published THD+N specs but the Clarett figures are super low (comparable to the best stuff out there.)
Of course, that's just the numbers, but they do at least tell you some careful design has been accomplished in both cases.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 6, 2018 11:14:42 GMT -6
Now I'm curious how the Focusrite Red interface compares to the Apollo, and the Symphony. It's around $1,700.
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Post by Guitar on Feb 6, 2018 11:25:00 GMT -6
Now I'm curious how the Focusrite Red interface compares to the Apollo, and the Symphony. It's around $1,700. There seems to be a lot going on there. Not least is ethernet networking. Specs on those are also incredible. The one you're talking about was just marked down from $2,500 to $1,700...wow. |
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Post by mrholmes on Feb 6, 2018 14:42:02 GMT -6
IMO UAD lives from a past fact, that the computers are not powerful enough to run all the DSP. Now they can handle all of it and more... I can fly to the moon with my new 12 core macs....  |
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Post by drsax on Feb 6, 2018 16:51:24 GMT -6
Now I'm curious how the Focusrite Red interface compares to the Apollo, and the Symphony. It's around $1,700. In my testing, the focusrite red was slightly below the blackface Apollo. I wanted to like it better, cuz I really dig the whole Dante thing - so flexible and efficient. It’s still nice though - plenty good enough to make hits  I just didn’t want to spend more for a large focusrite setup that wasn’t clearly a step up. |
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Post by jeromemason on Feb 6, 2018 17:21:41 GMT -6
Antelope has a pretty interesting new lineup allowing emulations they've made to be used like UAD. The conversion will be better and I've heard really good things about those emulations too. At some point an Orion HD is going to be in my rack. I have the Satori and I can't say enough about that monitor controller. It's made me a much better mixer by having crucial things like M/S and Mono listen buttons right in front of me. Also it's summing is great as well. The most transparent box of it's kind Ive ever come across. If the rest of their products are as good or better that's going to be my next move, an Orion HD which allows the use of those EMU's to be placed on any of the I/O. Pretty sure the Discrete 8/4 also has some badass pre's and monitoring D/A and comes in at $1,295. Damn good deal.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 6, 2018 19:19:30 GMT -6
Appreciate that post drsax.
Jerome, I was curious about the Antelope and posted a thread about it a while back, and the comments were mixed, certainly not a rave. I had hope it would be stellar.
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Post by drsax on Feb 6, 2018 21:33:00 GMT -6
I haven’t tried the Plus or Hd, but I had the Orion 32 (selling it now for a steal) and as much as I liked it for the value, the extra accumulation of high frequencies just worked against what I was trying to personally accomplish. Slightly harsh up high. Open, yes. But also a touch harsh in the highs for me. Still probably the best bang for the buck per channel though
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Post by c0rtland on Feb 6, 2018 21:48:41 GMT -6
I haven’t tried the Plus or Hd, but I had the Orion 32 (selling it now for a steal) and as much as I liked it for the value, the extra accumulation of high frequencies just worked against what I was trying to personally accomplish. Slightly harsh up high. Open, yes. But also a touch harsh in the highs for me. Still probably the best bang for the buck per channel though thats really not what I would want. Thanks for the tip. Metric, Jcf or burl would be where I would go if I had to choose today. Others are interesting but not as promising. Lord knows I'd stay far away from apogee, although clocking with the burl seems to be where it's at for my setup. Counter-intuitive but seems to work smoother. |
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Post by indiehouse on Feb 6, 2018 22:37:31 GMT -6
I haven’t tried the Plus or Hd, but I had the Orion 32 (selling it now for a steal) and as much as I liked it for the value, the extra accumulation of high frequencies just worked against what I was trying to personally accomplish. Slightly harsh up high. Open, yes. But also a touch harsh in the highs for me. Still probably the best bang for the buck per channel though thats really not what I would want. Thanks for the tip. Metric, Jcf or burl would be where I would go if I had to choose today. Others are interesting but not as promising. Lord knows I'd stay far away from apogee, although clocking with the burl seems to be where it's at for my setup. Counter-intuitive but seems to work smoother. You're not down with Apogee? What are you currently using? |
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Post by c0rtland on Feb 6, 2018 23:31:31 GMT -6
thats really not what I would want. Thanks for the tip. Metric, Jcf or burl would be where I would go if I had to choose today. Others are interesting but not as promising. Lord knows I'd stay far away from apogee, although clocking with the burl seems to be where it's at for my setup. Counter-intuitive but seems to work smoother. You're not down with Apogee? What are you currently using? mk1 symphony's 40x40. Victim of apparently common drop outs due to buss error's. Before that loop sync errors and clocking issues. #nightmare apogee has been less than helpful. |
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Post by BenjaminAshlin on Feb 6, 2018 23:37:27 GMT -6
Hmmm I've had bad experiences with a apogee drivers too. That's why I brought the apollo blackface over the ensemble th.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 7, 2018 8:36:25 GMT -6
Hmm, now you guys have me thinking maybe a Symphony's not such a great idea. I'd love to do the BLA mod with a Micro Clock, just can't afford those kinds of things right now. I've been told it can surpass the Symphony with the right mods. I'd love to hear it for myself at my place.
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Post by drsax on Feb 7, 2018 10:53:47 GMT -6
Hmm, now you guys have me thinking maybe a Symphony's not such a great idea. I'd love to do the BLA mod with a Micro Clock, just can't afford those kinds of things right now. I've been told it can surpass the Symphony with the right mods. I'd love to hear it for myself at my place. When I AB’ed Converters, the Apollo Mkii’s and the Symphony mki were very close. The symphony was a bit softer and slightly more flattering up high, but the Apollo had a bit tighter and more defined bottom end. Both sounded great. It certainly wasn’t worth double the price to move to the symphony for me. Grabbing a Burl AD at a great used price and running it through the Apollo SPDIF was the perfect solution here. All my main mono and stereo tracking goes through the Burl with the ability to use UAD plugs if desired while tracking - and then for multitrack sessions and drums, everything else is recorded through the Apollos. And the Apollo workflow allowed me to get rid of my massive headphone monitoring setup and end up with a more powerful and efficient headphone situation for my clients. Here’s my experience with the Apogee. Very much like when I used to run an Ensoniq/EMU Paris system, the Apogee Converters have a very flattering “analog-ish” Sound to them. They soften things a bit. I loved that on many sources. But I struggled to get the clarity and tightness in the low end that I wanted. It was a bit too soft down low. And occasionally the high end was too softened. That may not be the case with the new Symphony mkii, I don’t know since I have tried it. When doing rock and even some country, that softening was to my liking. But when doing R&B, modern pop, etc... I struggled to be able to tighten things up the way I wanted. Conversely, generally I have no problem softening tracks with good analog gear if needed. The Apollo mkii feels nicely balanced to me. Not too bright, and yet full, with big tight lows. In the end - all these Converters are real nice. We are spoiled the last 5 or 6 years. |
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I just didn’t want to spend more for a large focusrite setup that wasn’t clearly a step up. 
