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Post by matt@IAA on Jan 3, 2018 7:50:30 GMT -6
Yes apparently the WE 407a can be run in parallel and the 408a can be mounted as a direct replacement (physically). But just cuz they fit doesn't make them sound right or even good.
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Post by mjheck on Jan 3, 2018 8:41:14 GMT -6
(I've ready that only about 1/3 of VF14s new met the spec for Neumann). 27K5/3=9166 'suitable' VF14(M), ever. That's yon hen's teeth, y'all. I guess the next math, don't know the factor to plug in, how many mics using VF14's produced? Subtract that number, there's your original stock of spares. Several years ago (2011?) John Peluso had a selection of spare NOS VF14(m) tubes. I don't know if that is still the case. They were not cheap, but for me it mattered that it came from a reputable source. MJH
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Flea 47
Jan 3, 2018 11:04:20 GMT -6
Post by Guitar on Jan 3, 2018 11:04:20 GMT -6
This video is quite long, but I found it educational... the Flea is in there I think
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,011
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Post by ericn on Jan 3, 2018 13:33:22 GMT -6
Just a thought but if everybody has pretty much abandon the VF14 in the amplifier why are they all trying to build historically accurate Transformers? Wouldn't it make more sense to design a Transformers around their amplifier design that gives the sound with their choice of tube? Or am I over thinking ?
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Post by matt@IAA on Jan 3, 2018 15:15:35 GMT -6
No Eric I think you're right on.
That's one thing Chris at Barbaric Amplification really opened my eyes to. He views these things as four part systems - circuit, capsule, tube, and transformer. Any one piece changes all the rest.
It's pretty eye opening how a mic can change so much by swapping tubes keeping the other three constant. I have a frankenmic I dreamed up with him that uses a WE396a tube, a K47 capsule and this wild LL1940 transformer in a modified m49c circuit (local feedback removed). I tried the same mic with 5751 and 6829 tubes, and it ranged from mild to distortion monster.
I've never "transformer rolled" but it wouldn't surprise me if it can be pretty dramatic.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,011
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Flea 47
Jan 3, 2018 17:39:53 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by ericn on Jan 3, 2018 17:39:53 GMT -6
No Eric I think you're right on. That's one thing Chris at Barbaric Amplification really opened my eyes to. He views these things as four part systems - circuit, capsule, tube, and transformer. Any one piece changes all the rest. It's pretty eye opening how a mic can change so much by swapping tubes keeping the other three constant. I have a frankenmic I dreamed up with him that uses a WE396a tube, a K47 capsule and this wild LL1940 transformer in a modified m49c circuit (local feedback removed). I tried the same mic with 5751 and 6829 tubes, and it ranged from mild to distortion monster. I've never "transformer rolled" but it wouldn't surprise me if it can be pretty dramatic. This might be what Flea dose, I know the historically accurate guys poo poo them but for the $ find me better sounding inspired!
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Post by bluegrassdan on Jan 3, 2018 19:01:13 GMT -6
Until I can afford a real, historically correct U47, the Flea will remain in my mic locker. It has never sounded bad on anything yet. Maybe not the first choice, but never bad.
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Flea 47
Jan 3, 2018 19:34:06 GMT -6
Post by spindrift on Jan 3, 2018 19:34:06 GMT -6
I want to know when someone is going to make a clone with the actual circuit. It’s funny that people geek out over preamp circuits.. but I’m pretty sure every 47 clone out there doesn’t even try to use the same circuit. The 1073 clones that people bag on are more 1073 than any of these are 47s in my opinion. Well unless you have a stash of original NOS VF14m tubes under your bed a 100% accurate clone available in even boutique production quantities will never happen. And even if you could find a stash of genuine NOS VF14's I'd hate to think what they would cost. $2K apiece? More? $4400! www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-NOS-TELEFUNKEN-VF14-m-microphone-TUBE-for-NEUMANN-U47/182960499010?hash=item2a994ba942:g:V-0AAOSwh1haMGJ0
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Post by EmRR on Jan 3, 2018 19:39:06 GMT -6
Just a thought but if everybody has pretty much abandon the VF14 in the amplifier why are they all trying to build historically accurate Transformers? Wouldn't it make more sense to design a Transformers around their amplifier design that gives the sound with their choice of tube? Or am I over thinking ? Several angles there. The transformer is usually a bigger deal than the tube in most things. So that's an argument for accurate. Except no one gets them right either! See: Black art voodoo.
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Post by BenjaminAshlin on Jan 4, 2018 4:31:37 GMT -6
Does anyone have some gut shots of a Flea 47? I haven't ever had the chance to see inside one of them. I guess they use the same layout as all 47 type microphones.
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Post by rowmat on Jan 4, 2018 5:08:43 GMT -6
Does anyone have some gut shots of a Flea 47? I haven't ever had the chance to see inside one of them. I guess they use the same layout as all 47 type microphones. It looks like a typical U47 layout to me. I should be in the studio tomorrow so I'll take a few shots of the insides of ours if I remember.
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Post by bluegrassdan on Jan 4, 2018 7:21:14 GMT -6
It has a Russian K75-10 pio cap inside.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,011
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Flea 47
Jan 4, 2018 7:40:28 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by ericn on Jan 4, 2018 7:40:28 GMT -6
Does anyone have some gut shots of a Flea 47? I haven't ever had the chance to see inside one of them. I guess they use the same layout as all 47 type microphones. It looks like a typical U47 layout to me. I should be in the studio tomorrow so I'll take a few shots of the insides of ours if I remember. It has been discussed elsewhere but Flea uses a layout very similar to the vintage 47 but many values are very different from the original Neumann's.
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Post by c0rtland on Jan 5, 2018 22:52:09 GMT -6
I want to see a gut pic of the redd. Mine sounds too good to take apart for curiosity's sake. I'm sure to fudge it up. Even if I don't, i'd probably always feel like it sounded different.
What's that all about? I took my m149 apart. Looked like the inside of a garage door opener with a tiny tube. That left me feeling like it was cheap. But, I will stand behind (or in front) of that mic in any conversation. That thing is incredible. Cheap(ish) build or not. The pattern selector and cable feel like they are gonna disintegrate every time I use them.
I have more attachment to microphones than any other piece of gear I own. Don't eye the mics bro.
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Post by jakeharris on Jan 6, 2018 4:17:31 GMT -6
It has a Russian K75-10 pio cap inside. K75's won't fit in U47's. They're over 50mm's long. Flea uses the much smaller K42Y-2
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Post by timcampbell on Jan 6, 2018 5:49:08 GMT -6
Here's an internal shot of a FLEA 47. Their mechanical kits are used by many of the other boutique 47 builders such as Wagner.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 6, 2018 8:06:13 GMT -6
Wow, that soldering is kind of ugly.. I'm sure it's fine though.
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Post by Vincent R. on Jan 6, 2018 10:01:36 GMT -6
jtc111 has a FleA 47 and has brought it over a number of times. That mic is a winner. It beat out the FleA 49 on my voice when recording pop vocal and was second on my voice for crooning. 47s in general are not my favorite on my voice for the operatic style. They have a natural compression that kills the dynamic range of my voice. I owned a Peluso 2247SE for a while. The FleA has a much richer sound and isn’t as bright. I’ve also used a Wagner U47W which had a deeper low end, but that was probably the VF14. We directly compared the FleA 47 and the BLUE Stage II with the B7 on JTC’s voice. They had a similar mid and top end, but the FleA 47 had a deeper bottom end. Not a huge surprise, but it beat the hell out of the Slate VMS FG47. I have a 47/49 shoot out in the works with the Slate VMS, FleA 47, AA CM48T, and a few others. I hope to get it out this spring. Waiting for YouTube to let me monetize again. There are also also some clips here. You can even hear the new WA47 here. The Flea has the great top. End without being bright. www.zenproaudio.com/clipalator
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Post by jtc111 on Jan 6, 2018 10:42:20 GMT -6
What Vincent left out of his description is the word "magical." I have a Blue Kiwi and a Demeter VTMP-2c that sound really great together. The first time I heard myself on that pairing I was pretty sure I'd found a great combination for my voice. The Flea 47 blew it out of the water. The bottom is full without being boomy and the top is just pure silk with no harshness at all. I think there's also a little bit of presence in the lower mids which is complimentary to my voice. Vocals on the Flea had a multi-dimensional quality that the other mics couldn't replicate. When I brought the 47 over to Vincent's place for his shootouts, I took a few shots in front of the collection he was comparing and I couldn't stand to hear myself on the other mics. The Flea was simply miles ahead of the others ...magical.
Unfortunately for Vincent, the difference the mic made on his voice was equally dramatic and that first shootout wound up costing him $4k because he was pretty zeroed in on the Flea 49 for himself after that. When he was able to demo the 49, the differences between that and the other mics in his locker was easy to hear. We compared his vocal tracks in various styles and the 49 is really the right mic for him. At one point he sent me a blind listening test to see if it was all ears or some bias towards the Flea in play, but the results were same. I know he credits some folks here for pointing him towards the 49 and away from the 67. That was absolutely the right call.
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Post by EmRR on Jan 6, 2018 10:48:14 GMT -6
Wow, that soldering is kind of ugly.. I'm sure it's fine though. Eh, tag board soldering, not as good as an old school pro job, but nothing wrong with it.
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Flea 47
Jan 6, 2018 15:39:23 GMT -6
Post by wiz on Jan 6, 2018 15:39:23 GMT -6
What Vincent left out of his description is the word "magical." I have a Blue Kiwi and a Demeter VTMP-2c that sound really great together. The first time I heard myself on that pairing I was pretty sure I'd found a great combination for my voice. The Flea 47 blew it out of the water. The bottom is full without being boomy and the top is just pure silk with no harshness at all. I think there's also a little bit of presence in the lower mids which is complimentary to my voice. Vocals on the Flea had a multi-dimensional quality that the other mics couldn't replicate. When I brought the 47 over to Vincent's place for his shootouts, I took a few shots in front of the collection he was comparing and I couldn't stand to hear myself on the other mics. The Flea was simply miles ahead of the others ...magical. Unfortunately for Vincent, the difference the mic made on his voice was equally dramatic and that first shootout wound up costing him $4k because he was pretty zeroed in on the Flea 49 for himself after that. When he was able to demo the 49, the differences between that and the other mics in his locker was easy to hear. We compared his vocal tracks in various styles and the 49 is really the right mic for him. At one point he sent me a blind listening test to see if it was all ears or some bias towards the Flea in play, but the results were same. I know he credits some folks here for pointing him towards the 49 and away from the 67. That was absolutely the right call. I am sorta thinking if the STAM 47 don't work out for me, Flea might be next on the cards Cheers Wiz
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Flea 47
Jan 6, 2018 21:00:50 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by guitfiddler on Jan 6, 2018 21:00:50 GMT -6
Flea all the way!
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Flea 47
Jan 7, 2018 7:24:04 GMT -6
via mobile
wiz likes this
Post by indiehouse on Jan 7, 2018 7:24:04 GMT -6
What Vincent left out of his description is the word "magical." I have a Blue Kiwi and a Demeter VTMP-2c that sound really great together. The first time I heard myself on that pairing I was pretty sure I'd found a great combination for my voice. The Flea 47 blew it out of the water. The bottom is full without being boomy and the top is just pure silk with no harshness at all. I think there's also a little bit of presence in the lower mids which is complimentary to my voice. Vocals on the Flea had a multi-dimensional quality that the other mics couldn't replicate. When I brought the 47 over to Vincent's place for his shootouts, I took a few shots in front of the collection he was comparing and I couldn't stand to hear myself on the other mics. The Flea was simply miles ahead of the others ...magical. Unfortunately for Vincent, the difference the mic made on his voice was equally dramatic and that first shootout wound up costing him $4k because he was pretty zeroed in on the Flea 49 for himself after that. When he was able to demo the 49, the differences between that and the other mics in his locker was easy to hear. We compared his vocal tracks in various styles and the 49 is really the right mic for him. At one point he sent me a blind listening test to see if it was all ears or some bias towards the Flea in play, but the results were same. I know he credits some folks here for pointing him towards the 49 and away from the 67. That was absolutely the right call. I am sorta thinking if the STAM 47 don't work out for me, Flea might be next on the cards Cheers Wiz I've got my fingers crossed for the Stam. I've read somewhere that Danny B's capsule was being compared to a Thiersch in terms of quality and then there's the AMI BV08 (does he mean BV8? I don't see a BV08 on Tabs website). Those should be some fairly quality parts, no Chinese mass production in the audio path.
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Post by Vincent R. on Jan 7, 2018 7:24:24 GMT -6
If FleA ever makes a 67 I’m In trouble.
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Post by indiehouse on Jan 7, 2018 10:05:49 GMT -6
Anyone used Bocks 47/407?
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