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Flea 47
Jan 1, 2018 17:06:10 GMT -6
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 1, 2018 17:06:10 GMT -6
I keep hearing Bluegrass Dan’s examples with that Flea 47 and it’s got me all hot and bothered...anyone with firsthand experience?
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,011
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Flea 47
Jan 1, 2018 17:16:43 GMT -6
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Post by ericn on Jan 1, 2018 17:16:43 GMT -6
Bradd has one and loves it.
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Flea 47
Jan 1, 2018 17:35:03 GMT -6
Post by wiz on Jan 1, 2018 17:35:03 GMT -6
I keep hearing Bluegrass Dan’s examples with that Flea 47 and it’s got me all hot and bothered...anyone with firsthand experience? rowmatCheers Wiz
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Post by rowmat on Jan 1, 2018 17:49:28 GMT -6
I keep hearing Bluegrass Dan’s examples with that Flea 47 and it’s got me all hot and bothered...anyone with firsthand experience? Yep. We've had ours since early 2015. I've never directly compared it to an original U47 but as the originals all tend to vary considerably it's more whether it captures the overall U47 vibe which based upon a cross section of U47 vocal recordings I've heard I can say it does. It has the rich lows and mid presence which shines on male vocals especially rock stye vox using the classic U47 > Neve 1073 > 1176 vocal chain. Think Roger Waters, Robert Plant etc. With that type of chain however it can be a little too 'bitey' on some female vox but a V72/V76 style tube pre or something even smoother into a LA2A or similar tube style limiter can really smooth and sweeten it. In comparison to our Bock 251 the Bock can seem a little scooped with its almost subsonic low end and more extended high end. On a related note: about two weeks ago I was setup to record a female vocal and I had initially decided to first try the Bock 251 into a Hardy Twin Servo clone but the Bock died (dammit) and I quickly swapped it out for the Flea 47 into a Mercury V76m and Warm Audio WA2A. I used some low cut and about 4db of 16khz high shelving boost on a Heritage Audio 8173. So it's quite tuneable by mixing and matching pre's.
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Post by bradd on Jan 1, 2018 18:06:13 GMT -6
It’s a great mic. It gets used on nearly all of my vocals. You sound great on anything though, John.
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Flea 47
Jan 1, 2018 18:17:55 GMT -6
Post by hadaja on Jan 1, 2018 18:17:55 GMT -6
Wow your Bock died? My Bock 251 has never encountered this. Was it just the tube?
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 1, 2018 18:21:38 GMT -6
I've heard from a few other people that it had "bite." I don't hear that in Dan's examples, though. I had the CM7, CM7 GT (k47 and M7) and I ultimately wasn't happy with those because I thought they were bitey in the mids...but when I listen back to some things I did in that era, I'm like, "Damn...that sounds like a 47." Of course, I have done thee type of things time after time...I buy, sell because of a particular reason and then a year later all I remember is all the good things. I buy it again and think, "Oh, yeah..." Kind of like old girlfriends. lol. Anyway, all this time I was looking for the perfect mic for me - and the Upton/Shannon mic has been that. It would be nice to have complimentary mics for different occasions. I also think mics are the biggest contributor to the sound...although it all matters. So, maybe a better investment than more pres (at least for me.) BTW - I would love to have the Chandler REDD, but I feel like it's similar territory to the Upton and would be redundant. At this point, I couldn't get back what I've put into the Upton and I know I love it...so I'm not selling it.
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Flea 47
Jan 1, 2018 18:26:41 GMT -6
Post by rowmat on Jan 1, 2018 18:26:41 GMT -6
Wow your Bock died? My Bock 251 has never encountered this. Was it just the tube? I don't know yet. I think someone may have connected the cable between the mic and power supply while the power supply was turned on. So it could be either a blown fuse or possibly a tube but I've been too busy with other stuff to look at it yet. I did actually replaced a very noisy tube in a another Bock 251 that belongs to the same guy who sold me my Bock about a year ago. He had two, sold one to me, and kept the other one. However both these 251's use totally different tubes which is a pain as I do have some spare NOS GE 6072's but mine does't use a 6072 and has a different pinout. I may end up having to modify my Bock to take a 6072.
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Post by rowmat on Jan 1, 2018 18:29:40 GMT -6
I've heard from a few other people that it had "bite." I don't hear that in Dan's examples, though. I had the CM7, CM7 GT (k47 and M7) and I ultimately wasn't happy with those because I thought they were bitey in the mids...but when I listen back to some things I did in that era, I'm like, "Damn...that sounds like a 47." Of course, I have done thee type of things time after time...I buy, sell because of a particular reason and then a year later all I remember is all the good things. I buy it again and think, "Oh, yeah..." Kind of like old girlfriends. lol. Anyway, all this time I was looking for the perfect mic for me - and the Upton/Shannon mic has been that. It would be nice to have complimentary mics for different occasions. I also think mics are the biggest contributor to the sound...although it all matters. So, maybe a better investment than more pres (at least for me.) BTW - I would love to have the Chandler REDD, but I feel like it's similar territory to the Upton and would be redundant. At this point, I couldn't get back what I've put into the Upton and I know I love it...so I'm not selling it. Don't forget Dan is using his Flea 47 with his 'special sauce' tube preamp! I would be interested to hear the Redd with its internal preamp totally bypassed (not just at minimum gain). It wouldn't surprise me if it was somewhat 'bitey' and bright in less pleasant way than it is going into many other pre's.
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Post by ragan on Jan 1, 2018 18:29:53 GMT -6
I've heard from a few other people that it had "bite." I don't hear that in Dan's examples, though. I had the CM7, CM7 GT (k47 and M7) and I ultimately wasn't happy with those because I thought they were bitey in the mids...but when I listen back to some things I did in that era, I'm like, "Damn...that sounds like a 47." Of course, I have done thee type of things time after time...I buy, sell because of a particular reason and then a year later all I remember is all the good things. I buy it again and think, "Oh, yeah..." Kind of like old girlfriends. lol. Anyway, all this time I was looking for the perfect mic for me - and the Upton/Shannon mic has been that. It would be nice to have complimentary mics for different occasions. I also think mics are the biggest contributor to the sound...although it all matters. So, maybe a better investment than more pres (at least for me.) BTW - I would love to have the Chandler REDD, but I feel like it's similar territory to the Upton and would be redundant. At this point, I couldn't get back what I've put into the Upton and I know I love it...so I'm not selling it. Yes, don't sell that thing.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 1, 2018 18:31:31 GMT -6
I've heard from a few other people that it had "bite." I don't hear that in Dan's examples, though. I had the CM7, CM7 GT (k47 and M7) and I ultimately wasn't happy with those because I thought they were bitey in the mids...but when I listen back to some things I did in that era, I'm like, "Damn...that sounds like a 47." Of course, I have done thee type of things time after time...I buy, sell because of a particular reason and then a year later all I remember is all the good things. I buy it again and think, "Oh, yeah..." Kind of like old girlfriends. lol. Anyway, all this time I was looking for the perfect mic for me - and the Upton/Shannon mic has been that. It would be nice to have complimentary mics for different occasions. I also think mics are the biggest contributor to the sound...although it all matters. So, maybe a better investment than more pres (at least for me.) BTW - I would love to have the Chandler REDD, but I feel like it's similar territory to the Upton and would be redundant. At this point, I couldn't get back what I've put into the Upton and I know I love it...so I'm not selling it. Yes, don't sell that thing. Oh - I'm not...just gassing for stuff.
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Flea 47
Jan 1, 2018 18:49:50 GMT -6
Post by hadaja on Jan 1, 2018 18:49:50 GMT -6
I think i have about 4 x ish spare tubes for my older model Bock 251. I have a range from Bowie's suggestions and that all impart just a tad little difference. Let me know if you need one. Cheers
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Flea 47
Jan 1, 2018 19:29:26 GMT -6
Post by rowmat on Jan 1, 2018 19:29:26 GMT -6
I think i have about 4 x ish spare tubes for my older model Bock 251. I have a range from Bowie's suggestions and that all impart just a tad little difference. Let me know if you need one. Cheers Thanks for the offer. I have a few spare tubes but will contact David Bock if my 251's tube is the cause and work out whether I should convert mine to a 6072 or not. AFAIK Bock used at least three different types of tube in his 251.
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Flea 47
Jan 1, 2018 19:42:47 GMT -6
via mobile
ragan likes this
Post by indiehouse on Jan 1, 2018 19:42:47 GMT -6
I've heard from a few other people that it had "bite." I don't hear that in Dan's examples, though. I had the CM7, CM7 GT (k47 and M7) and I ultimately wasn't happy with those because I thought they were bitey in the mids...but when I listen back to some things I did in that era, I'm like, "Damn...that sounds like a 47." Of course, I have done thee type of things time after time...I buy, sell because of a particular reason and then a year later all I remember is all the good things. I buy it again and think, "Oh, yeah..." Kind of like old girlfriends. lol. Anyway, all this time I was looking for the perfect mic for me - and the Upton/Shannon mic has been that. It would be nice to have complimentary mics for different occasions. I also think mics are the biggest contributor to the sound...although it all matters. So, maybe a better investment than more pres (at least for me.) BTW - I would love to have the Chandler REDD, but I feel like it's similar territory to the Upton and would be redundant. At this point, I couldn't get back what I've put into the Upton and I know I love it...so I'm not selling it. Not gonna lie, Stams U47 has me intrigued. Seems to be using quality components. I'm betting it's close enough to a U47 vibe for $1300.
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Flea 47
Jan 1, 2018 20:37:59 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by matt@IAA on Jan 1, 2018 20:37:59 GMT -6
I want to know when someone is going to make a clone with the actual circuit.
It’s funny that people geek out over preamp circuits.. but I’m pretty sure every 47 clone out there doesn’t even try to use the same circuit. The 1073 clones that people bag on are more 1073 than any of these are 47s in my opinion.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 1, 2018 20:39:19 GMT -6
I keep hearing Bluegrass Dan’s examples with that Flea 47 and it’s got me all hot and bothered...anyone with firsthand experience? I have one. Come by and check it out if you're ever up here. I posted a video with it in the what you're working on section.
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Post by rowmat on Jan 1, 2018 21:30:27 GMT -6
I want to know when someone is going to make a clone with the actual circuit. It’s funny that people geek out over preamp circuits.. but I’m pretty sure every 47 clone out there doesn’t even try to use the same circuit. The 1073 clones that people bag on are more 1073 than any of these are 47s in my opinion. Well unless you have a stash of original NOS VF14m tubes under your bed a 100% accurate clone available in even boutique production quantities will never happen. And even if you could find a stash of genuine NOS VF14's I'd hate to think what they would cost. $2K apiece? More?
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Flea 47
Jan 1, 2018 21:42:40 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by matt@IAA on Jan 1, 2018 21:42:40 GMT -6
I want to know when someone is going to make a clone with the actual circuit. It’s funny that people geek out over preamp circuits.. but I’m pretty sure every 47 clone out there doesn’t even try to use the same circuit. The 1073 clones that people bag on are more 1073 than any of these are 47s in my opinion. Well unless you have a stash of original NOS VF14m tubes under your bed a 100% accurate clone available in even boutique production quantities will never happen. And even if you could find a stash of genuine NOS VF14's I'd hate to think what they would cost. $2K apiece? More? Agreed. But you don’t see people saying well Marinair transformers aren’t available so instead I made a Neve 1073 with gain control on feedback instead of on the input. At least the Neve cloners are generally copying the 1073 schematic. Some of the 47 clones out there are saying a k47 ish capsule with a bv8-ish transformer and a tube (or sometimes two) — and don’t forget the correctly shaped head basket - and voila you have a 47, circuit be damned.
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Post by rowmat on Jan 1, 2018 21:58:09 GMT -6
Well unless you have a stash of original NOS VF14m tubes under your bed a 100% accurate clone available in even boutique production quantities will never happen. And even if you could find a stash of genuine NOS VF14's I'd hate to think what they would cost. $2K apiece? More? Agreed. But you don’t see people saying well Marinair transformers aren’t available so instead I made a Neve 1073 with gain control on feedback instead of on the input. At least the Neve cloners are generally copying the 1073 schematic. Some of the 47 clones out there are saying a k47 ish capsule with a bv8-ish transformer and a tube (or sometimes two) — and don’t forget the correctly shaped head basket - and voila you have a 47, circuit be damned. Hence the use of the EF12 which Flea use as an alternative to the VF14. Some say the only difference is in the heater circuit but whether there is an audible difference in the sound of an EF12 versus a VF14 I don't know. I'm sure some will say there is. If one had a time machine one could go back 60 plus years and compare a new U47 with the current crop of clones. Now that would be a real test!
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Flea 47
Jan 1, 2018 22:15:25 GMT -6
Post by matt@IAA on Jan 1, 2018 22:15:25 GMT -6
I'm happier with the EF14 than Oliver's alternate circuit, just as an idealist. But Oliver was pretty clear that not just any EF14 will do. Just like the VF14, not all of them are suitable (I've ready that only about 1/3 of VF14s new met the spec for Neumann). Klaus also says there's a "noticable difference" in the performance. Whatever that means... Anywho, I'm zero opposed to clones or anything. I'm just not sure you can clone a 47, unless (like Flea) you're going the EF14 route. I didn't realize Flea was using EF14s, so for all intents and purposes they have a clone - or at least as close as you can get. So perhaps this belongs in the Warm thread instead of this one!
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Post by EmRR on Jan 1, 2018 22:23:45 GMT -6
(I've ready that only about 1/3 of VF14s new met the spec for Neumann). 27K5/3=9166 'suitable' VF14(M), ever. That's yon hen's teeth, y'all. I guess the next math, don't know the factor to plug in, how many mics using VF14's produced? Subtract that number, there's your original stock of spares.
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Flea 47
Jan 1, 2018 23:01:04 GMT -6
Post by rowmat on Jan 1, 2018 23:01:04 GMT -6
I'm happier with the EF14 than Oliver's alternate circuit, just as an idealist. But Oliver was pretty clear that not just any EF14 will do. Just like the VF14, not all of them are suitable (I've ready that only about 1/3 of VF14s new met the spec for Neumann). Klaus also says there's a "noticable difference" in the performance. Whatever that means... Anywho, I'm zero opposed to clones or anything. I'm just not sure you can clone a 47, unless (like Flea) you're going the EF14 route. I didn't realize Flea was using EF14s, so for all intents and purposes they have a clone - or at least as close as you can get. So perhaps this belongs in the Warm thread instead of this one! It's an EF12 not an EF14. I actually referred to the VF14 as a VF12 in my other post (since corrected) by mistake. It's easy to mix them up!
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Flea 47
Jan 1, 2018 23:25:42 GMT -6
Post by matt@IAA on Jan 1, 2018 23:25:42 GMT -6
I'm happier with the EF14 than Oliver's alternate circuit, just as an idealist. But Oliver was pretty clear that not just any EF14 will do. Just like the VF14, not all of them are suitable (I've ready that only about 1/3 of VF14s new met the spec for Neumann). Klaus also says there's a "noticable difference" in the performance. Whatever that means... Anywho, I'm zero opposed to clones or anything. I'm just not sure you can clone a 47, unless (like Flea) you're going the EF14 route. I didn't realize Flea was using EF14s, so for all intents and purposes they have a clone - or at least as close as you can get. So perhaps this belongs in the Warm thread instead of this one! It's an EF12 not an EF14. I actually referred to the VF14 as a VF12 in my other post (since corrected) by mistake. It's easy to mix them up! Ah I thought Flea was using EF14. Ok. Some interesting discussions here (involving Oliver, again) about EF12 vs EF14 in this U47 application. This quote stood out from some user there: Now I remember what turned me off the EF12 years ago: the suppressor grid is wired internally to ground so the tube can't be wired in the same way as an EF14, which has the suppressor grid connected to the plate externally. This means, among other things, that there will be a higher impedance than if the suppressor grid was connected to the plate.
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b0b0
Full Member
Posts: 39
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Post by b0b0 on Jan 2, 2018 19:43:43 GMT -6
Appreciating the related technical discussions; I’ll let those smarter than I comment. I will say however that it’s an outstanding mic. Shines on everything I use it with, plays nice with all my pres (1073s, vp28s, Dizengoff D4s, LA610). It’s my go to vocal mic. When tracking vocals, I often forget there’s a human on the other end, as it delivers a track ready sound right out of the gate. Sits great in a mix. Checkout my releases “Christmas Vol. 1” and “Vol. 2” at JamieBarnesmusic.com - those are tracked with the flea.
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Flea 47
Jan 3, 2018 5:09:50 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by kcatthedog on Jan 3, 2018 5:09:50 GMT -6
I could be corrected but I believe Max’s mk-u47 kit followed the original mike and pre schematics but used the 408a tubes for reason’s stayed sbove?
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