moatl
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Post by moatl on Nov 23, 2017 14:17:27 GMT -6
Hey guys, I’ve been part of this community for quite a while, but frankly most of my presence here was rather on the passive side But some probably know me from other gear related message-boards. I’m opening my first thread here because I’m working on something that could be extremely helpful to many of you and probably, if you’re like me - even change your life as a gear-nerd.I’m a young musician, songwriter and producer from Southern Germany and I consider myself a digital native, so obviously I started out in-the-box before my love for analog gear was brought to life I know there’s a gazillion of threads of digital vs. analog and I certainly don’t want to go there. All I can say is, my key turning point (as a young musician) was when I had the chance to work in a mostly analog studio with lots of vintage gear for the first time. It completely changed my view on how music can be created and I learned what a huge difference it makes in the process of creating music. Anyway, as I couldn’t afford to buy these legendary pieces of gear for my own studio, I discovered the magic of DIY to recreate these gems for myself. Now, some of you might feel me, some of you might laugh - some might even think that DIY stuff has little to do with the real thing… However, by DIY I don’t mean to buy some kind-a-like kits, I mean authentically recreating legends like LA2As, Pultecs, UA176 etc. from scratch - with original components - down to the last screw.Before you paint your picture you’re welcome to follow these links to get an idea of my work so far:
groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=63423.0
groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=66175.0Now - ever since I started this, a lot of people began following my work which lead to getting tons of emails from all over the world, how I did this and how I did that etc… And that in turn made me come up with the idea to create a free platform to help guys like you and me to recreate these amazing pieces of gear ourselves by providing everything needed to know from beginning to end, easily understandable - even for DIY newbies - and creating a small community & blog to share the knowledge, tips and mods. So now I’d love to hear what you think!Have you ever tried to DIY your favorite piece of gear? If yes, what were your main issues? If not - wouldn’t you love to be capable of doing it? I’d also like to know what would you want to see and what would be your expectations? Thanks for sharing your thoughts!! Martin
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Post by johneppstein on Nov 23, 2017 15:43:28 GMT -6
Hey guys, I’ve been part of this community for quite a while, but frankly most of my presence here was rather on the passive side But some probably know me from other gear related message-boards. I’m opening my first thread here because I’m working on something that could be extremely helpful to many of you and probably, if you’re like me - even change your life as a gear-nerd.I’m a young musician, songwriter and producer from Southern Germany and I consider myself a digital native, so obviously I started out in-the-box before my love for analog gear was brought to life I know there’s a gazillion of threads of digital vs. analog and I certainly don’t want to go there. All I can say is, my key turning point (as a young musician) was when I had the chance to work in a mostly analog studio with lots of vintage gear for the first time. It completely changed my view on how music can be created and I learned what a huge difference it makes in the process of creating music. Anyway, as I couldn’t afford to buy these legendary pieces of gear for my own studio, I discovered the magic of DIY to recreate these gems for myself. Now, some of you might feel me, some of you might laugh - some might even think that DIY stuff has little to do with the real thing… However, by DIY I don’t mean to buy some kind-a-like kits, I mean authentically recreating legends like LA2As, Pultecs, UA176 etc. from scratch - with original components - down to the last screw.Before you paint your picture you’re welcome to follow these links to get an idea of my work so far:
groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=63423.0
groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=66175.0Now - ever since I started this, a lot of people began following my work which lead to getting tons of emails from all over the world, how I did this and how I did that etc… And that in turn made me come up with the idea to create a free platform to help guys like you and me to recreate these amazing pieces of gear ourselves by providing everything needed to know from beginning to end, easily understandable - even for DIY newbies - and creating a small community & blog to share the knowledge, tips and mods. So now I’d love to hear what you think!Have you ever tried to DIY your favorite piece of gear? If yes, what were your main issues? If not - wouldn’t you love to be capable of doing it? I’d also like to know what would you want to see and what would be your expectations? Thanks for sharing your thoughts!! Martin How do you deal with sourcing things like original transformers and inductors?
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moatl
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Posts: 31
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Post by moatl on Nov 23, 2017 16:20:04 GMT -6
That's a good question John!
During all my projects not only I, but also others who contributed to the projects did extensive tests and measurements comparing original transformers against possible alternatives - the same goes for the Pultec inductors. For the transformers in particular we tested lots of modern substitutes but als other vintage iron with the same or similar specs. The prices for original Pultec or LA2A iron has been skyrocketing lately, but there are great options out there - and it will also be part of that knowledgebase and platform to point out the available options and how they sound etc.
It's incredible how much information we could gather over the past years, but there's no place where this information is easily accessible. I mean there's tons of information over on groupDIY, but it's very hard to see the wood for the trees! There's literally thousands of threads - some of them close 500 pages long.
With this project I'd like to focus on rather few legendary pieces of gear - and for those - gather all relevant information in one place, you know what I mean?
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Post by curlygates on Nov 24, 2017 1:44:50 GMT -6
Martin's projects and his help have been priceless. As he said extensive test to find new and also other vintage substitute iron have been undertaken for those who want a possibly less expensive but very capable alternative. I am totally addicted. Thanks Martin!
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moatl
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Post by moatl on Nov 24, 2017 16:28:54 GMT -6
Martin's projects and his help have been priceless. As he said extensive test to find new and also other vintage substitute iron have been undertaken for those who want a possibly less expensive but very capable alternative. I am totally addicted. Thanks Martin! Thanks for the kind words curlygates!! I really appreciate it! It's been a long road already, but the learning experience has been amazing! That's also what I love about DIY - it's not only you end up with amazing gear, but you also learn so much about how these things work and what they do to the music!! But that's also why I want to create a place - to make it easier for everyone - at least for these certain projects for now. But the above posted questions remains - how would you want this place to be? Even if you think of yourself like "I know nothing about electronics, so that's definitely not for me!" I'll tell you a secret - 5 or 6 years ago I also knew nothing about electronics - SERIOUSLY!
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Post by johneppstein on Nov 24, 2017 17:50:36 GMT -6
That's a good question John! During all my projects not only I, but also others who contributed to the projects did extensive tests and measurements comparing original transformers against possible alternatives - the same goes for the Pultec inductors. For the transformers in particular we tested lots of modern substitutes but als other vintage iron with the same or similar specs. The prices for original Pultec or LA2A iron has been skyrocketing lately, but there are great options out there - and it will also be part of that knowledgebase and platform to point out the available options and how they sound etc. It's incredible how much information we could gather over the past years, but there's no place where this information is easily accessible. I mean there's tons of information over on groupDIY, but it's very hard to see the wood for the trees! There's literally thousands of threads - some of them close 500 pages long. With this project I'd like to focus on rather few legendary pieces of gear - and for those - gather all relevant information in one place, you know what I mean? Well, I'm definitely in favor of a central repository of comprehensive information. I'm a little less sure of the idea of limiting it to a few popular designs.
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Post by curlygates on Nov 25, 2017 10:05:12 GMT -6
I vote for a central location for all the info concerning these current and soon to be released offerings and then we can hope he will bring some more iconic pieces on line as well.
Also i will add I was basically a newbie and still am in some ways i guess, with just a chorus pedal build a few capi preamps (which i love by the way) before building an La2a, a pair of Pultec Eqp1's and Meq's eq's and several tube mic psu's with his case and info offerings and the additional help and knowledge from several other different sources.
I won't lie and say i had no experience before, because i had taken a beginner ac/dc course many years ago and knew what a resistor kinda did. Kinda got capacitors but not really. Learned ohms law but never really applied it to a working situation. However as i began on the journey with building this stuff most point to point some of that old stuff began to make a little more sense seeing it in a working situation.
With some anxiety and nervousness I decided i had to try to build some of this stuff and so I ordered some chassis and was also able to source alot of the original parts and transformers with the knowledge that martin seems to be hoping to centralize. Over a period of time and effort I was able to successfully complete these with the help of this info.
I learned so much just seeing how these things work thru working thru everything to get to a working unit. It is amazing really.
These are not for the faint of heart because they do have lethal voltages and one should be cautious and perhaps build a simpler low voltage project or two to get the basics for measuring voltages and such but it can be done with a few basics and some applied safety practices. So by all means be safe and smart and always ask if you are not sure.
Lastly i will say i don't know Martin personally as i am in the states and i am not one to heap praise on anyone really in fact i rarely post anything at all as you can tell, but from my dealings with him he really seems to strive for perfection and ask very little in return for all the effort he has to have put out to get these projects to where they are. And he does seem to genuinly just want to help others to experince these iconic pieces the very best and anyway they can. There are many other great people who contribute greatly like this, who i am very thankful for as well and alot of them on this forum but these are just my experiences with Moatl in regards to what he is trying to do. Very much appreciated Scot
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Post by johneppstein on Nov 25, 2017 13:04:12 GMT -6
I'm also not entirely comfortable with that word "easily" in the thread title...
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Post by unit7 on Nov 26, 2017 6:12:49 GMT -6
I'm also not entirely comfortable with that word "easily" in the thread title... I thought about that too.. However, thinking about the LA-2 build I did a couple of years ago, nothing in the actual build was particularly difficult, except attaching the logo on the faceplate, that was the trickiest by far, but that wasn't Martin's LA-2 case but one from an italian guy on GDIY. The hardest part for me, as a relative DIY noob, was getting the overall picture of the project and get all parts right, all without a real guide or build manual. Christian Whitmore helped me a LOT.
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moatl
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Post by moatl on Nov 26, 2017 16:52:08 GMT -6
The problem is - if it's not limited to selected projects - it makes it a pretty much impossible to prepare the information the way its easy to find, clearly structured and easy to grasp. Then you could just visit groupDIY as well and spend hours and hours to find what you need to know. Of course this knowledge board can and will grow in the future, but IMHO it's vital to focus on some selected projects - and do it properly. I'm also not entirely comfortable with that word "easily" in the thread title... Yes I agree. But I think if all information, sources etc. is prepared well - the build can indeed be easy. I know there's high voltages involved, but that's also a big chapter I want to cover - safety & precautions. Good instructions is key here to keep the risk as low as possible. And I can only emphasize what Unit7 said: technically the build itself is not the problem -it's no rocket science. But to find information on what you need, where you get it how to exactly put it together etc...is what has always been the much bigger challenge in the past by far - at least for me. So basically a part of the plan is to create detailed build manuals, teaching those who use them, while they proceed with the build. Actually there'll be some very essential steps before that - finally leading to the build itself at some point. That way those who enter the quest won't be unprepared and complete newbies when they finally start the build. You know what I mean? I'm not sure yet if you can imagine the level of user experience I'm going for... ...but to get there I'll need to know what the biggest obstacles & hurdles were for you guys? That might have even kept you off the DIY route completely... I still remember, before I did my first point-to-point wired project (which actually was the LA2A) I pictured it to be so much more challenging than it actually was in retrospective...
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Post by johneppstein on Nov 26, 2017 22:53:01 GMT -6
The problem is - if it's not limited to selected projects - it makes it a pretty much impossible to prepare the information the way its easy to find, clearly structured and easy to grasp. Then you could just visit groupDIY as well and spend hours and hours to find what you need to know. Of course this knowledge board can and will grow in the future, but IMHO it's vital to focus on some selected projects - and do it properly. I'm also not entirely comfortable with that word "easily" in the thread title... Yes I agree. But I think if all information, sources etc. is prepared well - the build can indeed be easy. I know there's high voltages involved, but that's also a big chapter I want to cover - safety & precautions. Good instructions is key here to keep the risk as low as possible. And I can only emphasize what Unit7 said: technically the build itself is not the problem -it's no rocket science. But to find information on what you need, where you get it how to exactly put it together etc...is what has always been the much bigger challenge in the past by far - at least for me. So basically a part of the plan is to create detailed build manuals, teaching those who use them, while they proceed with the build. Actually there'll be some very essential steps before that - finally leading to the build itself at some point. That way those who enter the quest won't be unprepared and complete newbies when they finally start the build. You know what I mean? I'm not sure yet if you can imagine the level of user experience I'm going for... ...but to get there I'll need to know what the biggest obstacles & hurdles were for you guys? That might have even kept you off the DIY route completely... I still remember, before I did my first point-to-point wired project (which actually was the LA2A) I pictured it to be so much more challenging than it actually was in retrospective... Well, I spent many years as an audio service tech so yeah, I know what you mean. One thing that most inexperienced people don't grasp is the importance of physical layout, which can definitely verge on, if not "rocket science", then voodoo.. A couple of things I'd like to see that are not common are a DIY of the ADR Compex limiter/compressor/expander (which would be a pretty advanced project) and the Spectra-Sonics 610 compressor (of which I happen to own an original and would like another.)
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Post by mulmany on Nov 27, 2017 21:39:10 GMT -6
A good concise repository for known good parts and solutions would be great.
Group diy is great, but people's explanations and clif hangers can dampen one's drive to tackle a project.
I think the cost of transformers is the major reason I have not tackled the tube builds. There are a lot of options, and I don't want to be stuck with a "sort of" replica.
I guess that is the biggest down side to build from scratch diy... If you don't have an original close by it's hard to know if what you built is right.
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moatl
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Post by moatl on Nov 28, 2017 5:02:10 GMT -6
A good concise repository for known good parts and solutions would be great. Group diy is great, but people's explanations and clif hangers can dampen one's drive to tackle a project. Exactly! I went through all this many times, but I figured it actually doesn't have to be this way. Again, good build instructions would solve this problem for the most part. Also in regards to what john wrote - physical layout can be crucial! That was especially difficult when building my UA176 from scratch as there was pretty much no information available apart from the schematics and a few pics I found on the web... but it came out great: I'm working on graphic layouts of my projects that show the exact wiring layout + explanations why they have to be this way... Thanks for you feedback so far guys, I'll try to take it into consideration Keep it coming...
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 28, 2017 13:35:06 GMT -6
A good concise repository for known good parts and solutions would be great. Group diy is great, but people's explanations and clif hangers can dampen one's drive to tackle a project. Exactly! I went through all this many times, but I figured it actually doesn't have to be this way. Again, good build instructions would solve this problem for the most part. Also in regards to what john wrote - physical layout can be crucial! That was especially difficult when building my UA176 from scratch as there was pretty much no information available apart from the schematics and a few pics I found on the web... but it came out great: I'm working on graphic layouts of my projects that show the exact wiring layout + explanations why they have to be this way... Thanks for you feedback so far guys, I'll try to take it into consideration Keep it coming... What kind of money are you into a 176 for? I would think these nice P2P recreations must cost a lot of coin.
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moatl
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Post by moatl on Nov 29, 2017 17:32:44 GMT -6
What kind of money are you into a 176 for? I would think these nice P2P recreations must cost a lot of coin. Honestly I can't tell at this point. What I did, was building a prototype which is extremely expensive. The chassis work is custom made, the pcbs are handmade, turret boards handmade etc... I spent A LOT of time doing research on how this thing was designed and building the prototype but also finding errors. I have the service manual and schematics, but there were at least half a dozen errors in the original schematics as well as in the layout of the original pcbs - some of them were rather hard to find If you build an LA2A or Pultec there's quite some info across the web by now, but in case of the 176 there was no one I could ask really. But now that I've been there, I learned so much about this amazing piece of gear and managed to build a flawlessly working unit, I think I can give enough input to make it a rather smooth ride for those who follow But long story short - even though this is not the cheapest build it was probably my most rewarding - I love this comp! And compared to the asking prices for vintage 176s nowadays (last one I saw went for over $ 8.500 USD!!) it's an absolut no-brainer!
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Post by m03 on Dec 3, 2017 21:34:14 GMT -6
Are there plans to offer the 176 and/or other designs as full kits?
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moatl
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Post by moatl on Dec 4, 2017 10:37:09 GMT -6
Are there plans to offer the 176 and/or other designs as full kits? Well - maybe yes, at some point in the future. The thing is - it's a huge undertaking to build this knowledge base - and also in such way it's as easy to understand and as I'm picturing it to be. But offering all my projects as full kits is on a completely different page in terms of time, expenses etc... As I explained - my first stage of this project is supposed to offer a way to find and share this project related information in a way unseen before anywhere on the web. First of all that means to share crucial information on how the pieces of gear work, what they do (to the sound), how to build them, what you need - and last but not least where to get the parts. I'm not sure how far I'll get with my initial launch, but optimistically it will make it almost as easy as 100% kits with the help of interactive shopping carts links, extensive build manuals, videos, tutorials, etc. It's not that you'll have to look for all the stuff yourself - all across the web. The platform will do that for you. If all this is set and working - I might think about finding a way to offer full kits. But I'll suggest you really stay tuned, because I think it's worth it - even if there's no full kits available yet. Because I have an idea now, how I could start this. My plan is to make a video + guide to look at the whole first and from there make more videos and guides to take those by the hand who want to follow me and lead them more and more towards the details. So by the time you actually want to decide wether you can pull it off you've learned so much about this particular piece of gear, how it's supposed to sound and where you get the parts, etc... it'll most likely be easier to build than some full kits out there
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Post by m03 on Dec 4, 2017 12:23:15 GMT -6
The thing is - it's a huge undertaking to build this knowledge base - and also in such way it's as easy to understand and as I'm picturing it to be. But offering all my projects as full kits is on a completely different page in terms of time, expenses etc... As I explained - my first stage of this project is supposed to offer a way to find and share this project related information in a way unseen before anywhere on the web. First of all that means to share crucial information on how the pieces of gear work, what they do (to the sound), how to build them, what you need - and last but not least where to get the parts. If you have a collaborative effort in mind, consider implementing it using public Git repositories (via GitHub, GitLab, etc) with something like GraphViz diagrams and Markdown or reStructuredText documents, or similar open-source diagram/documentation tooling. That would provide an easy way to host the information, includes an issue tracker, and enables a standard way of allowing for public contributions. It also prevents the project from getting locked into a proprietary software platform that might not survive the test of time. Just a thought, in case something like that hadn't been considered.
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moatl
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Post by moatl on Dec 6, 2017 15:58:03 GMT -6
If you have a collaborative effort in mind, consider implementing it using public Git repositories (via GitHub, GitLab, etc) with something like GraphViz diagrams and Markdown or reStructuredText documents, or similar open-source diagram/documentation tooling. That would provide an easy way to host the information, includes an issue tracker, and enables a standard way of allowing for public contributions. It also prevents the project from getting locked into a proprietary software platform that might not survive the test of time. Just a thought, in case something like that hadn't been considered. Thanks for the input! I might indeed consider implementing public Git repositories if I can manage to do it in a way it doesn't take away from the intuitive user interface I have in mind. Very good input m03
In the meantime I made some progress - maybe I can come up with some initial content soon!
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moatl
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Post by moatl on Dec 14, 2017 11:13:02 GMT -6
OK guys - I'm ready to show you something! Again thanks for your great feedback and responses!! They made me aware of many things I didn't think of before - but beyond, it motivated me a lot to get something going now!! With a little help of some close friends I launched a first initial "website" with a video to outline how we could approach this and what could be happening in 2018. It's still pretty basic, but I think it’s a good starting point to make building these legendary pieces of gear much more accessible to all of us. If you followed this thread so far and like the basic idea - please check it out and let me know what you think! here's the link: www.analogvibes.com
It's really exciting to finally go public - even if it's just a first step and I hope you like it! And if you do, please leave me a comment right there on the page - I think this could help a lot to build up a community and the more of you participate and contribute, the better Thanks again guys! Martin
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2017 12:13:40 GMT -6
After I put my email in, and click the 'Get Me Started' link, it freezes and I don't get an email from you. Edit: S'ok, I turned off my ad blocker and it worked.
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moatl
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Post by moatl on Dec 17, 2017 15:49:33 GMT -6
Glad it worked for you! Any feedback from anyone who has visited my site? It's just a first step, but I'm already working on further content Let me know what you think guys! Thanks
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Post by avgatzeblouz on Dec 18, 2017 8:49:26 GMT -6
Look-wise, you are by far the best site in "affordable DIY-type of gear". Way better than Hairball, Stam, or Microphone-parts. The PDF looks really nice too. Te name of the website is sexy too. I found the content of the PDF a little bit too long, and it seemed to me sometimes out of context (room treatment, mic placement, etc...) when the target is showing and selling how to build gear. Not that your statement are not valid, they are very important, actually, but are not the information people will be awaiting at first hand. So far, very good start, I'll be following this with great interest !
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moatl
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Post by moatl on Dec 20, 2017 17:17:52 GMT -6
Look-wise, you are by far the best site in "affordable DIY-type of gear". Way better than Hairball, Stam, or Microphone-parts. The PDF looks really nice too. Te name of the website is sexy too. I found the content of the PDF a little bit too long, and it seemed to me sometimes out of context (room treatment, mic placement, etc...) when the target is showing and selling how to build gear. Not that your statement are not valid, they are very important, actually, but are not the information people will be awaiting at first hand. So far, very good start, I'll be following ths with great interest ! Thanks for your great end detailed feedback avgatzeblouz! Glad you like the look, but as you may have spotted in the video the final website will be on a whole different level. I'm still working on it with the help of two close friends... Regarding the PDF you're probably right. But let me point what I had in mind: It's true the core element is how to build the gear. But before we focus on the gear itself I want to paint a picture of the whole - even from a very basic point of view. Just to put it all in perspective, you know what I mean? Then go from there, and with every step focussing more and more on the detail. In other words my plan is: Let's take look at the whole first and cover some of the basics - and more importantly bring out WHY we do it. Then turn towards the gear: Which are the most iconic pieces, what do they do and why are they so special. Then we'll pick out one of them and elaborate how exactly it works, what it does to the sound etc. And finally I'll go even further and focus on how we can build this iconic piece of gear ourselves - where to start, precautions...step by step to the finished unit. In my humble opinion the key to a successful build and a great learning experience is to approach such a project from the surface and sharing content, knowledge and tips all along the way down to the core. So, by the time we're finally ready to start the build, we have already gained some fundamental understanding about how it works, what we do and what we're heading for. I still think you might be right and for the future I'll try to keep your advise in mind! This os also why your feedback is so important - after all it's my first steps, and the more feedback I get, the better the result will be Thanks again!Martin
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Post by moatl on Jan 8, 2018 16:31:59 GMT -6
Happy New Year everybody!! Sorry for the long silence - I just returned from a little vacation with my family I see there haven't been any new posts anyway I got back to work on the project - here's a little sneak preview of the landing page for the final website: I'm planning to release the next step around mid January. Still I would love to get some more feedback from you guys Thanks!!
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