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Post by stam on Oct 5, 2017 12:01:29 GMT -6
Hello Guys,
Just finished some tests at Estudios del Sur which is a lovely recording facility in Chile, this is the first of a series of shootouts between our builds and vintage mics that we will be posting.
The signal chain is the U47 and SA47 through an SSL desk with no eq and no effects.
I look forward to reading your comments on this one
Thanks
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Post by Mister Chase on Oct 5, 2017 12:38:38 GMT -6
Hey Stam!
Sounds very good. I feel like the Neumann is slightly more open on top and bottom with a little more clarity in low mid, but I'm not sure if I could hear it if I tested blind! Nice work! I'll need a 47 eventually, and this would probably be the one I'd get for price and sound.
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Post by wiz on Oct 5, 2017 16:32:49 GMT -6
Hey Stam! Sounds very good. I feel like the Neumann is slightly more open on top and bottom with a little more clarity in low mid, but I'm not sure if I could hear it if I tested blind! Nice work! I'll need a 47 eventually, and this would probably be the one I'd get for price and sound. Thats pretty much what I heard as well, mostly when he wasn't belting it out, when he got loud, I had trouble picking the difference...and this is a dry vocal... both could end up working in a mix, and you would make moves with the EQ to either to get them to sit. sounds good stamcheers Wiz
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 5, 2017 17:26:44 GMT -6
They are certainly very similar and that is impressive but it seemed to me that the neumann had more presence and dimension, whether that is worth the price difference is a whole other question : good work !
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Post by ChaseUTB on Oct 5, 2017 23:59:22 GMT -6
I think it’s dope you did this Stam!
I Could key in on the sibilance difference and pick it reliably by the end of the vid... the Stam is def more sibilant in a slightly abrasive way.. this is also a solo vocal which ppl do not hear when listening to music.
Does this Neumann have an original k47 capsule? It sounds more k47 than m7 to me... It may be a reskin or replacement as well.
Regardless, the Stam sounds great for a $1000 mic! I would choose an 87 for this voice over the 47 though 🤠
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Post by ragan on Oct 6, 2017 0:31:58 GMT -6
You can definitely pick out the difference but that (the Stam) is a great sounding mic and very much in the 47 vein.
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Post by stam on Oct 6, 2017 4:45:16 GMT -6
I think it’s dope you did this Stam! I Could key in on the sibilance difference and pick it reliably by the end of the vid... the Stam is def more sibilant in a slightly abrasive way.. this is also a solo vocal which ppl do not hear when listening to music. Does this Neumann have an original k47 capsule? It sounds more k47 than m7 to me... It may be a reskin or replacement as well. Regardless, the Stam sounds great for a $1000 mic! I would choose an 87 for this voice over the 47 though 🤠 The SA47 is not more sibilant, in fact, the U47 has a tiny bit more top end, we will try to adjust some things to get it closer on the high end. The Neumann has an original M7 capsule, the K47 sounds different. It is not a reskin nor replacement. We tested the U87 that day, not even close. I guess we disagree on everything, lol.
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 6, 2017 5:07:35 GMT -6
Hmm,, characterizing an original 47 as sibilant: that's a first
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Post by stam on Oct 6, 2017 6:45:01 GMT -6
Hmm,, characterizing an original 47 as sibilant: that's a first Edited. Happy?
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Post by Vincent R. on Oct 6, 2017 7:31:39 GMT -6
I'm out of state singing a concert. I want to listen to this in my studio. Just listening to this on a pair of cheap AKG cans, I think if I had heard this blind, I would have thought the Stam SA47 were the U47. It has a beefier quality that I remember from using a Wagner U47. In fact these two mics sound about as different as the Wagner U47 I had used for a session and my friend's FLEA 47 which I've used a few times this summer.
Stam, my offer stands as ever. If You can send me a demo I'll make a nice video/recording with it. I'd love to hear it on a big crooning vocal. I could also put it next to a FLEA 47.
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Post by stam on Oct 6, 2017 8:08:18 GMT -6
I'm out of state singing a concert. I want to listen to this in my studio. Just listening to this on a pair of cheap AKG cans, I think if I had heard this blind, I would have thought the Stam SA47 were the U47. It has a beefier quality that I remember from using a Wagner U47. In fact these two mics sound about as different as the Wagner U47 I had used for a session and my friend's FLEA 47 which I've used a few times this summer. Stam, my offer stands as ever. If You can send me a demo I'll make a nice video/recording with it. I'd love to hear it on a big crooning vocal. I could also put it next to a FLEA 47. As soon as I have some spares to send out for reviews I will send you one! thanks for the offer. Yes, we had 5 Neuman U47's at the studio that day, they all sounded has different from each other as the SA47 did. I Dany and Oliver really nailed the tone of this mic with the adapted circuit and selection of components. Dany's D7 capsule is key. Thanks again
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 6, 2017 8:15:12 GMT -6
Hmm,, characterizing an original 47 as sibilant: that's a first Edited. Happy? Was kind of more pulling your leg, as I think it unusual for a real 47 in good functioning order to be characterized as sibilant ? Almost impossible given the effect of the screen weave, cap and tube ? I have used rode mikes: Classic ii and ntv and made C-12 and mk-u47, so have experimented with different high end capsules ( the normal rode and an AA-47, Tim Campbell and Thriersh blue line caps and different NOS tubes: Ge 1950 5 star, RCA gold tipped and Eriksson. Each mike actually has its own sound and I came to appreciate the old school engineer's idea of using the mike for its natural eq and getting it right at source. I am not saying the new Stam 47 sounds bad or anything like that. Hope that is clearer, horses for different courses and pocket books !
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Post by Mister Chase on Oct 6, 2017 9:18:25 GMT -6
I'm out of state singing a concert. I want to listen to this in my studio. Just listening to this on a pair of cheap AKG cans, I think if I had heard this blind, I would have thought the Stam SA47 were the U47. It has a beefier quality that I remember from using a Wagner U47. In fact these two mics sound about as different as the Wagner U47 I had used for a session and my friend's FLEA 47 which I've used a few times this summer. Stam, my offer stands as ever. If You can send me a demo I'll make a nice video/recording with it. I'd love to hear it on a big crooning vocal. I could also put it next to a FLEA 47. As soon as I have some spares to send out for reviews I will send you one! thanks for the offer. Yes, we had 5 Neuman U47's at the studio that day, they all sounded has different from each other as the SA47 did. I Dany and Oliver really nailed the tone of this mic with the adapted circuit and selection of components. Dany's D7 capsule is key. Thanks again Oh this is Dany's D7? That is an amazing, amazing capsule. I have one here waiting to go into a mic build. Good choice! Save
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Post by stam on Oct 6, 2017 9:21:18 GMT -6
I know you were not =)
We tested 11 transformers, 7 capsules, 5 tubes... it all come down to the best combination.
Components are not made the same as they were made 50 years ago, materials have changed, the laminations on transformers are not the same, the mylar, transistors, caps, they only thing that is left are NOS tube, which we use on the 47.
The only way to make a mic these days sound the same as the old ones is to find which capsule works with which tube and transformer the best to emulate the same curve, we ended up going with Dany´s D7 capsule, NOS Telefunken EF800 tube and the AMI BV8 output transformer. After month of testing this sounded the best of all configurations, I then rented several original U47´s and tested endless hours. We feel we got 95% there and at a fraction of the price.
We might do further research but I am very happy on how this mic sounds, all credit to Olvier and Dany of course
Josh
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 6, 2017 9:31:39 GMT -6
The AMI BV-8 is key, I've had a few, and within busy tracks, they retain such great low level sensitivity and articulation, they become indispensable.
I think a pinch of EQ might help bring them even closer, but if you're 98% finished with this Stam, see if there's any slight adjustment in the transparency in the highs you can make.
Even as is, it's legit, and it's killer, certainly comparing favorably to some $2,500-$3,000 U47 style mics. Congratulations, well done sir.
* just listened again, and listened even closer. I'm liking this more and more. It takes a hard hit beautifully without the capsule cringing. Even the Thiersch M7 chokes a little when hit hard.
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Post by avgatzeblouz on Oct 6, 2017 10:35:15 GMT -6
I know you were not =) We tested 11 transformers, 7 capsules, 5 tubes... it all come down to the best combination. Components are not made the same as they were made 50 years ago, materials have changed, the laminations on transformers are not the same, the mylar, transistors, caps, they only thing that is left are NOS tube, which we use on the 47. The only way to make a mic these days sound the same as the old ones is to find which capsule works with which tube and transformer the best to emulate the same curve, we ended up going with Dany´s D7 capsule, NOS Telefunken EF800 tube and the AMI BV8 output transformer. After month of testing this sounded the best of all configurations, I then rented several original U47´s and tested endless hours. We feel we got 95% there and at a fraction of the price. We might do further research but I am very happy on how this mic sounds, all credit to Olvier and Dany of course Josh OK, so the build changed drastically since it was announced. You should change your website info, it still states Heiserman capsule and AMI T47 transformer.
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Post by avgatzeblouz on Oct 6, 2017 13:00:04 GMT -6
I'd like to add that something annoys me a little bit : the 2 mics are very very very close (soundwise), but the singer sings more in front of the Stam, the U47 is higher, and yet, the 47 sounds fuller and less pinchy. What difference would it have been if the 2 mics had been the other way around ?
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 6, 2017 13:40:45 GMT -6
Jeez, there's always someone unsatisfied with something about a shootout. How much closer can someone make it than butting the heads of the mics? Sometimes the singer is closer to the Stam, but sometimes he's reaching up toward the Neumann. Filming looks different depending on the camera angle too. The shootout was clear enough to demonstrate how close in sound they are, and display the subtle differences. That's about as good as it gets online.
I'm glad Stam did this. It's a really good sound already, and if he makes any small adjustments, it'll be even that much closer.
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Post by timcampbell on Oct 6, 2017 14:27:40 GMT -6
I have to say the Stam SA47 sounds great and at that price really exceptional.
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Post by ragan on Oct 6, 2017 15:41:44 GMT -6
I'd like to add that something annoys me a little bit : the 2 mics are very very very close (soundwise), but the singer sings more in front of the Stam, the U47 is higher, and yet, the 47 sounds fuller and less pinchy. What difference would it have been if the 2 mics had been the other way around ? FWIW, in my experience, having the diaphragm firing a little higher up will often do exactly that, make it sound less pinchy. So I'm not surprised that the U47 might skew that way being placed above. I often place mics on myself a little above the bridge of my nose and very slightly angled downward to make things less sibilant and pinched sounding. I'm definitely not surprised the (Stam) mic directly in front of the singer's mouth is the one with the more prominent esses.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 6, 2017 16:04:09 GMT -6
Funny, I found neither one too sibilant, and felt the Neumann had a slight more prominent "ESS" when A-B'd. There's just a little more air, and a little less low end push on the 47. That Stam sounds fantastic to me, and the Neumann, stellar. I'd love to take the STAM and do a little high pass filtering, I bet it'll be killer.
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Post by avgatzeblouz on Oct 6, 2017 16:41:47 GMT -6
Jeez, there's always someone unsatisfied with something about a shootout. How much closer can someone make it than butting the heads of the mics? Sometimes the singer is closer to the Stam, but sometimes he's reaching up toward the Neumann. Filming looks different depending on the camera angle too. The shootout was clear enough to demonstrate how close in sound they are, and display the subtle differences. That's about as good as it gets online. I'm glad Stam did this. It's a really good sound already, and if he makes any small adjustments, it'll be even that much closer. No shootout can be perfect. Absolutely impossible. So yes, there will always be someone unsatisfied with something about them. And yes, the Stam is really really great.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 6, 2017 16:47:37 GMT -6
I often suggest someone try making one of these videos themselves. Their reviews of shootouts get a lot kinder, quickly
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Post by bluegrassdan on Oct 6, 2017 17:01:23 GMT -6
Having the capsules side by side makes for a better comparison than one on top of the other for vocals. There's greater sonic change up and down than left to right with a vocal.
Would like to hear it redone side by side before forming any opinion.
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Post by Guitar on Oct 6, 2017 18:36:58 GMT -6
Very impressive!
I hear the Neumann as having a bigger low frequency and and more neutral mids.
I hear the STAM as being a tiny bit leaner down low and a bit more peaked in the upper mids.
I am curious what is the tube being used in the STAM version?
I wonder to myself, about the direct comparison to the Peluso and Advanced Audio 47-mics. That would be a fun one! Maybe Pearlman as well, based on reputation.
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