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Post by popmann on Jan 16, 2014 14:08:12 GMT -6
Funny--I thought the first one was fake and the second was the same fake model, only sent to a speaker mic'd with a 57. It sounded like it had some weird room resonances and that classic (and hated here) 57 "shrill 4-5k" thing.
It would depend on the mix, but the second, to me had the bad combo of odd room resonances AND "faux model top". Thus why I went with the first--sure it's fake but it sounds like a more flat DI model that was as you put it "more pleasing to the human ear".
So, maybe just try some 121 modeled Kempers. Or Fig8 67s. Something kinder up top.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 16, 2014 14:12:14 GMT -6
Thus why I went with the first--sure it's fake but it sounds like a more flat DI model that was as you put it "more pleasing to the human ear". I agree with the first being "more pleasing to the human ear". I think it sounds fuller. The second I prefer though because it sounded more like a real mic'd amp. |
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Post by svart on Jan 16, 2014 14:41:06 GMT -6
My R121 is due for a re-ribbon, maybe you could borrow it after it gets back with it's fresh ribbon.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 16, 2014 14:52:44 GMT -6
Mind you, I don't particularly think that profile is the best profile out there for the Kemper. There is a Vox AC30 and Supro that are just killer from Amp Factory and the Bassman from Soundside sounds just fantastic. The thing with the Kemper is just ease of use...and for what I do - rhythm guitar tracks for demos, it's totally fine. BUT, like I said, I still think about just buying a AC15, Princeton and a 57 and pocketing the money...But then you get into the whole - "Oh, you've got to have a 121 to make it sound decent" thing...Might not be worth the trouble...
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Post by svart on Jan 16, 2014 15:11:57 GMT -6
I saw my R121 as an investment, that's how I justified it. You see your amps as investments. I think you can get away with just getting amps and using a 57, but you'll have that one tone to deal with.. I think the R121 murders the SM57, but I don't think the R121 is right for every amp. On a princeton, it's magic. I did one recently and it sounded great. The R121 doesn't sound nearly as good on something like an ENGL or Mesa though, and would use a 57 on these if I didn't have better options.
In other words, I don't like 57s if I have something else to use.
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Post by popmann on Jan 16, 2014 16:42:18 GMT -6
You have CAPIs, right? THat would be the right sound....at least, honestly--APIs are--I've never used the CAPI. But, Dynamic and old school preamp is all you need. The 121 is a f'n luxury of engineering laziness and guitar amp slutitude. Which, BTW--you never changed my title to "resident underachiever"...but, as a player...I afford myself the Royer simply because it's repeatable and easy--on axis...12-18" out from dead center on the cone. Hit record. Sounds like the amp. And, you want to know gear I DO get slutty about...the Royer is the least I can do to capture my collection. Anyway-it just allows me to NOT be an engineer while doing guitar tracks, I guess. That's my goal with all my gear, honestly...the older I get, the less I want to twiddle knobs. I've worked around things my whole career--and still do when I get client tracks...but, for my stuff? I want what hits the converter TONALLY to be what needs to be there or see next point as to which side to err on:
I bet you could add FabFilter Saturn to the ClipA here....bump the presence cut bass some in it's EQ on either warm tape or smooth amp algorithms --add an impulse reverb of a REALLY short ambience REALLY low (like 5-10%) and make A into B....visa versa won't happen. If you start with flat/boring/pleasing...there are a million ways to make it edgier...not so much the other way around. I don't say that like you should always be saturating amp tracks...simply saying that if you are in doubt--err on clean and pleasing. Boring some might say.
Re: Amplitube CPU hog. PRINT IT. If that's the sole reason you don't want to use Amplitube...? It's not like you need huge horse power during tracking...and it's not like you need to keep the amp sim "live" for mixing. Play the track. Print it. Or print it as audio as you go--but, that gets into fancier routing for no real gain. I mean, does it take a whole minute of your life to render it once you play the track? Then el zippo CPU usage....and Cubase and Logic (not sure about PT) will let you freeze it so that the amp settings are right there for recall in case you DID want to tweak it later.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2014 16:46:13 GMT -6
WOW I liked A way more then scrolled down. Can I change my mind? Profile Amplitube. In the Kemper's defense, what you put in is what you get out but I've never even thought of looking into Amplitube.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2014 16:49:03 GMT -6
So - ]Or maybe it's time to just dump these and buy an AC15c1, Princeton and a 57... Music to my ears, "virtually" the best idea I've heard 8) Don't do it. I use the AC 15 for gigging but for recording nothing beats the flexibility of the Kemper. |
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Post by Ward on Jan 16, 2014 17:05:18 GMT -6
Just FYI: There's a rare brown face Fender Deluxe on eBay for under $2000!!
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 16, 2014 17:52:33 GMT -6
Sigh...
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Jan 16, 2014 21:06:34 GMT -6
Throw a mic up to one of your monitors and rerecord that Amplitube track to get some air and you'd be hard pressed to ever find any amp to sound better for that particular vibe IMO. Was that a preset in Amplitube?? Damn.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 16, 2014 21:31:33 GMT -6
No - I just set it to default, chose the Fender 65 and changed to the Princeton Cab because I thought it sounded better...put a 121 on the edge just like I would a real on...Took off some of the very top end with the rack EQ and that was it...
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 16, 2014 21:33:57 GMT -6
You know, after listening again...Jeesh...the Amplitube was pretty damn awesome. I mean shit - for what I do it's kind of a no brainer...
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Post by popmann on Jan 16, 2014 22:34:04 GMT -6
Yeah...I always favored it before I band using modelers for demos. You know-cause sometimes I played something gold and had to deal with it in the mix...but, I don't own my amps and guitars TO record them. They're my instruments AND I record them. If the only time you play electric guitar is wanking on song demos, why buy an amp? ...as a player, I HAVE to have an amp. I PREFER it be a nice one...so, if you assume I'm gonna have a nice amp, sure I'll go ahead and buy the Royer to record it. But, if you're just playing it for recording? Ehh...just use Amplitube. Freeze the audio (solves CPU taxing). Sell the Kemper while it's still got some value. Done. Seems odd to buy instruments just to make recordings. But, then...I do have a Hammond that basically serves only that purpose, so...but, that's also a total lifelong fetish thing. I love that sound. I WISH I was really good. Maybe I should be playing it instead of typing here solving obvious non issues for you...  If I spent all my forum browsing time JUST playing Hammond...shit, is it too late for a new years resolution? That sounds like a good one! |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 16, 2014 22:45:43 GMT -6
That frickin' Heritage works every time. A is fuller. You cam much more easily take a little bottom off A in a mix if need be, than adding bottom to B , which might make it muddy.
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Post by Ward on Jan 17, 2014 8:46:08 GMT -6
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 17, 2014 9:06:29 GMT -6
Yeah...I always favored it before I band using modelers for demos. You know-cause sometimes I played something gold and had to deal with it in the mix...but, I don't own my amps and guitars TO record them. They're my instruments AND I record them. If the only time you play electric guitar is wanking on song demos, why buy an amp? That's the case - other than just for fun, I don't play electrics other than recording. I really dug into the Kemper last night. Started with everything dialed in to zero - just the profile. Then I started by adjusting the "Definition" parameter which is really important for the overall sound. @jordanvoth you know what I'm talking about. Then I adjusted EQ...Seems like I really got better sounds this way. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 17, 2014 9:13:47 GMT -6
But, if you're just playing it for recording? Ehh...just use Amplitube. Freeze the audio (solves CPU taxing). Sell the Kemper while it's still got some value. Done. Seems odd to buy instruments just to make recordings. But, then...I do have a Hammond that basically serves only that purpose, so...but, that's also a total lifelong fetish thing. I love that sound. I WISH I was really good. Maybe I should be playing it instead of typing here solving obvious non issues for you... If I spent all my forum browsing time JUST playing Hammond...shit, is it too late for a new years resolution? That sounds like a good one! The problem is, I usually track everything before I put on electric guitars. Honestly, I'm not sure if I've tried the whole Amplitube thing since buying my new Mac Mini, so maybe this point will be moot. Anyway - in the past, getting the buffers down to 128 with Superior and Stylus and blah blah, etc. has been kind of a pain. Yeah, I could record the tracks, but lots of times I want to make changes, etc. I guess I'm just gonna have to commit to just using Amplitube on the next song I do to see if it's feasible. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2014 12:16:12 GMT -6
Yeah...I always favored it before I band using modelers for demos. You know-cause sometimes I played something gold and had to deal with it in the mix...but, I don't own my amps and guitars TO record them. They're my instruments AND I record them. If the only time you play electric guitar is wanking on song demos, why buy an amp? That's the case - other than just for fun, I don't play electrics other than recording. I really dug into the Kemper last night. Started with everything dialed in to zero - just the profile. Then I started by adjusting the "Definition" parameter which is really important for the overall sound. @jordanvoth you know what I'm talking about. Then I adjusted EQ...Seems like I really got better sounds this way. biggest advantage the Kemper has on real amps, that and the character setting on the cab section. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Jan 17, 2014 18:16:02 GMT -6
Alright already,..., for the love of god,...sonically, the kemper has NO advantage on a real amp....ever, .... Period, end of story! This place is called REAL GEAR, not VIRTUAL GEAR for crying out loud lol 8) U should go DI and reamp when you have the time?  End rant here... |
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Post by LesC on Jan 19, 2014 1:52:47 GMT -6
It would be even awesomer if one of us bought it and created a great set of profiles to share with the rest of us Kemperites! |
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Post by LesC on Jan 19, 2014 2:01:23 GMT -6
Mind you, I don't particularly think that profile is the best profile out there for the Kemper. There is a Vox AC30 and Supro that are just killer from Amp Factory and the Bassman from Soundside sounds just fantastic. The thing with the Kemper is just ease of use...and for what I do - rhythm guitar tracks for demos, it's totally fine. BUT, like I said, I still think about just buying a AC15, Princeton and a 57 and pocketing the money...But then you get into the whole - "Oh, you've got to have a 121 to make it sound decent" thing...Might not be worth the trouble... I've been playing a bit with the Kemper. I'd like to get some of the Amp Factory stuff, but the number of profiles and bundles is overwhelming. Do you have any suggestions where to start, any specific bundles you would recommend? Were the killer Vox AC30 and Supro individual profiles or within a bundle? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2014 4:45:24 GMT -6
Hm,
i thought this topic will come up sooner or later, if digitally modelled devices count as *real gear*.
EDIT: this is related to tonycamphd's post...
IMHO real gear *can* be virtual, really.
Be it virtual amps like Amplitube, the Kemper, or anything great modelled ITB.
The last generations of digitally modelled stuff has some awesome results. If they are external rack devices or virtual plugins on the computer doesn't matter, really, if the results are great.
I am just demoing Nebula3 stuff from Acoustica Audio and i see no 'virtuality limit' working with it. You can really 'sample' hardware stuff with the NAT sampler (even in the free version) and results are not only stunning, if done right, i doubt ANYONE, including all members of this board, will be able to distinguish the results from the real hardware units.
How should one? The nonlinearities are sampled and interpolated in a way, that i can not see any huge advantages of working outside the box with vintage gear that has to be serviced more or less intensively.
That said, i still love analog hardware devices, if not for the sound, for the haptics, for the possibilities to mod it, and because i am nostalgic about it....
But this is no aristotelic yes/no logic.
Everyone will say the early Jünger Audio compressor/limiter stuff is great, no matter if they are digital.
And devices like the Kemper or the AxeFx are used live by many pro's on stage already, they already are as 'real' as it gets and there is no way back to a renaissance of analog gear, let's face it. Hybrid is the way, most of us go today. And this is a rational way to deal with it. Using what is most practical and good sounding. Getting the most out of the space you have.
Sure, a great guitar amp is not only a 'nice to have' thing. It is hard to model in the virtual world, it can be used live in a great way and it is an investment, that doesn't loose it's value soon.
But no way we should say, a device like the Kemper is *not real*. Because it is. People that have it seem to love it. It is flexible and it sounds good on many occasions. Even if some profiles do not sound sufficiently good for a production, that doesn't mean anything. I have heard worse tube amps, if compared to the clips John has posted, for sure.
No doubt many here would say it was obvious, that John used virtual amps for his clips, but if he would have posted a real physical amp and a very good model from it on the kemper, i am pretty sure, everyone would have had a hard time to judge which one is the physical tube one...
Best regards,
Martin
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2014 4:56:34 GMT -6
Just an idea ...
Would it probably make sense to establish a forum niche for "all things digital"?
Just an idea to avoid potential conflicts on some topics?
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 19, 2014 8:47:06 GMT -6
That might be a good idea once the forum gets a little bigger. I don't know if I love separating everything out so much though.
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If I spent all my forum browsing time JUST playing Hammond...shit, is it too late for a new years resolution? That sounds like a good one!
