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Post by Vincent R. on May 1, 2017 9:28:44 GMT -6
My favorites are the Bock 251 and the Telefunken U47 on these voices. The U87ai proves to be a great contender as well, giving a solid performance as is usual. The Warm Audio WA 87 does a good job with the U87 sound, but is missing some of the lows, which makes it more suitable for the female vocal than the male, IMHO. The Miktek CV4 is also really nice sounding. I'm also always surprise how the KSM 44 performs. It's much more neutral, but always keeps up with the big boys, but I'm partial. It was my first mic and there is no mic in my studio I know better. www.sweetwater.com/feature/vocal-mic-shootout/
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Post by rowmat on May 1, 2017 10:01:56 GMT -6
Seems like something is wrong with the webpage. It either crashes Safari (fairly common anyway) or won't load in Firefox.
We have a Bock 251 and it has a big, deep low end which often can make it seem somewhat darker than initially expected when up close.
It goes both lower and higher (more air) than our Flea 47. The Flea is more present in the mids and also has decent low's but they're not as extended (subby) as the Bock.
The output transformer used in the Bock 251 is pretty frickin big for a mic output transformer compared to most others I've seen.
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Post by adamjbrass on May 1, 2017 10:30:38 GMT -6
chandler REDD ftw
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Post by donr on May 1, 2017 11:21:18 GMT -6
I liked the clips where the male singer didn't sing sharp on the "..Love that makes you who you are.." That F# was sharp a lot of the time, and it would bias my opinion of the mic.
He's fairly in tune on the Shure KSM32, both Manleys, the Behringer C1, the Avantone CV12, the U87ai, the ELA M 251e, the Telefunken U47.
He was really sharp on the AT 5040, the Lauten CLARION FC-357, the U47FET, I didn't check them all.
Not to knock the singer, it's a comment on the shootout process. I wonder if a full range speaker into the mics with just one recorded performance wouldn't be a fairer comparison. I just didn't like the lesser vocal performances as well. I also tended to favor the mics that got a bit more sense of the room over those that didn't.
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Post by ChaseUTB on May 1, 2017 11:27:38 GMT -6
To many differences in that takes I heard for a real world comparison...
As donr pointed out the fella is all over the place as the takes start to pile up...
Would a full range speaker be able to direct the sound at the capsule if positioned correctly? Interesting experiment... Would we then have to factor in the speaker's frequency response? I agree that there has to be a better way than multiple different takes...
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Post by donr on May 1, 2017 11:32:18 GMT -6
Also, the mics were on 50 Latch Lake boom stands. Wow. Open box sale coming up?
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Post by Vincent R. on May 1, 2017 12:01:34 GMT -6
It's funny how tastes can be so different.
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Post by jcoutu1 on May 1, 2017 12:16:51 GMT -6
To many differences in that takes I heard for a real world comparison... But this is actually more like a real world comparison (note, I haven't watched yet). If I'm doing a shootout in my studio with a singer, I'll grab 2 or 3 mics that I think should work, have the singer sing into each, and make a decision. If a take totally blows, we'll give it another go, but it's never really more than 2 takes of a couple lines on each mic before moving on. That's the nature of the beast. As for using a speaker, I assume that's how War/ZenPro runs the files for his clipilator.
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Post by ragan on May 1, 2017 12:36:20 GMT -6
To many differences in that takes I heard for a real world comparison... But this is actually more like a real world comparison (note, I haven't watched yet). If I'm doing a shootout in my studio with a singer, I'll grab 2 or 3 mics that I think should work, have the singer sing into each, and make a decision. If a take totally blows, we'll give it another go, but it's never really more than 2 takes of a couple lines on each mic before moving on. That's the nature of the beast. As for using a speaker, I assume that's how War/ZenPro runs the files for his clipilator. I don't think he uses speakers. He used to do them in batches, a handful of mics at a time, always with a 414b-ULS as a reference. But it was always someone singing/playing live I'm pretty sure.
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Post by ChaseUTB on May 1, 2017 13:05:26 GMT -6
To many differences in that takes I heard for a real world comparison... But this is actually more like a real world comparison (note, I haven't watched yet). If I'm doing a shootout in my studio with a singer, I'll grab 2 or 3 mics that I think should work, have the singer sing into each, and make a decision. If a take totally blows, we'll give it another go, but it's never really more than 2 takes of a couple lines on each mic before moving on. That's the nature of the beast. As for using a speaker, I assume that's how War/ZenPro runs the files for his clipilator. When you listen / watch you will maybe you understand where I'm coming from... some of the takes are not keeper takes and especially not sang well enough to judge the character/ quality of a mic against the rest as a whole ... of course this is all my opinion 😎 Edit : plus I would hate to eliminate the " best " mic because of a bad take when warming up / prepping for the session... I prefer using 2 mics and have one mic upside down directly over the upright mic and I do my best to align the capsules... I really feel there is no one perfect method to going about this. As long as they aren't singing into a rock even the worse mic choice for a particular singer will still give me enough to work with in a mix 😫😎
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 1, 2017 15:21:13 GMT -6
The best way to deal with the differeance sin performances in a shoot out this big is to put up a reference mic that is static in every take. You can then judge each take against the reference to get an idea what is the performance and what is the sound of the mic. I have also found putting the vocalist on a stool and keeping the stool in the same spot keeps things consistent ! Really would have loved to see some vintage classics and some more obscure Choices ( think Beyer MC834, Sanken, Milab etc).
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 1, 2017 15:45:30 GMT -6
The more I listen the more the male voice confuses me. At time particularly on the second line he gets a very very nasel and honky or this kind of buzzy grateing quality can't say it's the mike or the take ! With the right dynamics verb delay and some EQ I can see even the $60 Behringer working !
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Post by Johnkenn on May 1, 2017 16:16:13 GMT -6
Listening to the male voice, I thought the Chandler had a bottom end that none of the others had and didn't have the 2khz thing that some of the others had.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 1, 2017 18:41:34 GMT -6
Listening to the male voice, I thought the Chandler had a bottom end that none of the others had and didn't have the 2khz thing that some of the others had. It was the only one I couldn't really find anything to complain about.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 1, 2017 20:55:28 GMT -6
It certainly doesn't help my "I want the damn Chandler mic" problem.
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Post by aremos on May 1, 2017 21:34:28 GMT -6
Weird "test", let alone they were missing obvious brands/models: Where is the BOCK 47 (407), the SONY C800G ... any BRAUNERs, SANKENs, FleAs?
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 1, 2017 21:53:36 GMT -6
Did you guys see this? It's a Vintage King mic shootout. It's huge, but more wieldy, even though there's a lot of chit chat. Get some coffee, and prepare to take a little time out, it's worth it if you're always looking for your holy grail mic.
The Telefunken U47 takes the prize here. The Bock is impressive, and the Manley is quite good.The REDD 47 wan't available at the time. Now that would've made it really interesting.
I'll have to check out the Sweetwater mic files tomorrow.
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 1, 2017 22:04:59 GMT -6
OK, on headphones I jumped around to listen to a few mics, I'll try again tomorrow on my monitors. The Telefunken U47 again, was magnificent, flawless, but the Chandler gave me goosebumps, oy veh. I think I'd take the Chandler if offered my pick. The Telefunken U47 would be my second choice.
Considering you don't need a preamp for the Chandler, it's not as pricey as it might have been. Still, it may be a while before I could even think about that kind of coin for a mic. I don't know why the Soyuz 0-17 wasn't included, and I was also hoping to see the Lauten Audio Eden. The Atlantis was impressive, but a bit shy of great, so the Eden might be a contender.
John, I should start a poll guessing how long it'll be before you get the Chandler. I say six weeks before one of your other lovely mics will go bye bye.
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Post by ChaseUTB on May 1, 2017 22:28:34 GMT -6
It certainly doesn't help my "I want the damn Chandler mic" problem. Man, the Upton and the Chandler mic would be a crazy duo... plus would cover dam near anything and everything you could think to record when paired with your km84 or gefell .... sorry I'm not helping .... however the Upton must stay as well... That's an " and " Upton and Chandler 🤗😀
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Post by donr on May 2, 2017 1:04:26 GMT -6
It's understandable that Sweetwater would only shootout mics they sell.
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 2, 2017 6:16:40 GMT -6
Of course you're right Don, but I thought that since there are three of Lauten Audio mics featured, it's odd they wouldn't include their flagship, the Eden. I guess they don't carry the Soyuz yet.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 2, 2017 6:41:05 GMT -6
Of course you're right Don, but I thought that since there are three of Lauten Audio mics featured, it's odd they wouldn't include their flagship, the Eden. I guess they don't carry the Soyuz yet. I'm sure it's there 50 top selling LDC's with some weight given to price point/ lust!
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 2, 2017 8:30:53 GMT -6
I'm sure there's a logic behind the scenes there, but since there's a Telefunken U47 and 251, and a Chandler REDD, it would have been fun to see if it was competitive at 1/2 to 1/4 of the price of those mics.
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Post by kevinnyc on May 2, 2017 8:47:45 GMT -6
I liked the clips where the male singer didn't sing sharp on the " ..Love that makes you who you are.." That F# was sharp a lot of the time, and it would bias my opinion of the mic. He's fairly in tune on the Shure KSM32, both Manleys, the Behringer C1, the Avantone CV12, the U87ai, the ELA M 251e, the Telefunken U47. He was really sharp on the AT 5040, the Lauten CLARION FC-357, the U47FET, I didn't check them all. Not to knock the singer, it's a comment on the shootout process. I wonder if a full range speaker into the mics with just one recorded performance wouldn't be a fairer comparison. I just didn't like the lesser vocal performances as well. I also tended to favor the mics that got a bit more sense of the room over those that didn't. Don illustrates the difficulty I have in ascribing any value beyond the entertainment value of listening to other people's shootouts in their environment... In addition to performance related things that skew my ability/desire to try and be objective, I also find my own creative aesthetics (often seemingly at odds with whomever is doing the shootout) to get in the way of me being able to evaluate any particular piece of gear... If I don't like the genre, performance, recording, etc., etc. ad infinitum I have a really hard time getting past my own subjective peculiarities... That said, it's never stopped me enjoying all manner of gear shootouts
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Post by donr on May 2, 2017 8:56:22 GMT -6
Lynn Fuston, who did the shootout, made the point on GS that the downloadable 24/96 files are a minute long instead of 10 seconds and give a better idea of how each mic sounds with the singers.
I remember Lynn Fuston doing a pre-amp shootout from Nashville about a decade ago. Obviously a real guy with a real track record. And now he works for Sweetwater, as does former music journalist Mitch Gallager.
When I a/b something, I like to be able to take a couple of seconds of same source audio and switch back and forth to decide which I prefer, like bypassing a plug in or hardware i/o send/return. I don't trust myself to compare something to something else I heard several minutes ago.
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