Here's what I've learned about mixing for other people

Is this a test?

Are you afraid of failing? Why would you care? Can I come up with any more Yoda questions to answer a question?   

Just trying to better understand where you're coming from. I've observed the meaning, purpose, and expectation of mixing shift drastically over my decades of doing it. The merging of digital editing/content manipulation tools with those of audio is responsible. And, people who now track with mixing in mind. Meaning--artist who track with thoughts like "I'll automate the volume on this and it will be fine". "I'll just mute this section in the mix". 

Recent job...I mentioned to the client how hard I'd worked to get the bass where he liked it (and I mentioned because he singled it out as "you gotta tell me how you did that")...but, then apologized saying he would've retracked it if he'd known it was going to be an issue. Anyway--the thing there is...he thought I meant it was a challenge due to his performance. And to be blunt--I don't care how good/bad/groovy/not his performance is--that's not my concern when mixing. My issue was that it was a "boingy" active single coil through a clean DI...in a style that is very 70s folk. It was about the tonal balance with everything else that was my "issue". Retracking it--same player/bass/DI would in NO way have remedied that. I actually SOLD my Jazz bass last year because I'm lazy. A P you just plug in, play and then come mix time, maybe it needs a little HPF and a few DB of slow compressor to retain the attack dynamics while suppressing the sustain.

I intentionally NEVER screw with people content. It's the unwritten rule I live by. I mean-unless they ask me to "hey can you edit this out...or tune this...etc". I will tell you mine:

I get all the tracks clearly heard in their own space and achieve the best sonic balance of what is on the table-and do so in honor of the artist's vision. 

While I understand utter and complete transparency without prejudice isn't possible for anyone...it's the gold standard I strive for. It should sound like what you played--only now you can clearly hear everything...nothing jutting out disrupting the feel-nothing taking a listener out of the musical moment...I get leery of mix engineers who consider their work turd polishing. Someone is trusting you with their baby. It's a job of care taking, cleaning, and presentation. Their baby is already beautiful to them...

It's cool, you can try to chop me down underhandedly, but as I just said, I'm not going to get bent out of shape.

It may be their baby, but it's my work.  If they don't like what I'm doing, then it's quite possible I'm not the right person for the job.  My work is as much my baby as their song is theirs.  This is a collaboration as much as anything in this world.  If I produce crap, only crap will come to me.  Once the artist realizes that it's crap, they'll blame me, not themselves, and the work will dry up as word gets out that I make crap mixes.

This still doesn't change the fact that a lot of times, you have to be the one to call their baby ugly and give it plastic surgery.  Not doing so allows them to keep making sound that is bad and that is an injustice to the customer as much as changing their signature sound is.  Sometimes walls have to be broken and if an artist can't take criticism, then they are in for a real short musical career and a lot of the time, they'll thank you for it after they've realized what you've done for them (very similar to your bass story).

EDIT:

Anyway, turd polishing.  Yes.  I've spent time working upwards from the bottom and that has meant dealing with folks who have good ideas but poor equipment, amatuer or newb playing skills, or misconceptions about their sound(too much delay/reverb, etc) and need to have things polished by someone who knows how or is at least willing to give it a shot.  That's me.  I'm only now getting to a point where the jobs are getting better and easier so that I don't have to do so much polishing, but the expectations of the customer are the same.  Their expectation is that whatever they give me, I have to make it sound good.  Sometimes I have the skills and equipment to do it, sometimes it takes ingenuity, sometimes it doesn't work, but I still have to make it be the best regardless of the input.  So yes, I wear the turd polisher badge proudly. 

 

Really? The fact that he ignored my rec to NOT use the compressor means it's polishing a turd? The fact that he's not a fabulous tracking engineer? Or maybe doesn't have good monitoring...? 

You're confusing sonic manipulation or reversing of poor tracking engineering choices....with content/performance manipulation. 

My "leery"...is simply due to the attitude towards mixing I laid out, brotha--not a personal judgement. If that's the production service you provide, it's what you provide. There's nothing wrong with that...and we're certainly not gonna be competing for the same work, as I'm not interested in that. Which was my point in asking John what mixing meant to him. If he calls that "mixing", too...then no doubt I understand his analogy.

You've been clear about what it means to you. I've been clear on what it means to me. Don't take anything I've said as any kind of personal attack, because it certainly wasn't meant that way. I apologize for "leery"...I see how that read....not how I intended. 

 +1. This about sums it up for me.

Fair enough. MY misunderstanding of what you meant.

Well, I found your response condescending. Maybe because it was condescending. I tend to mix like you - I don't make creative decisions unless they ask me to...but, I feel like if they don't like my take on making things sound as good as I can get them, then I might not be the right guy. I find that opinions are like assholes - and especially with something as subjective as music. Here in Nashville, I rarely get anything that was recorded poorly on the front end...but my whole point was, I can't read people's minds...and most of the time, THEY don't even know what they want.

Reverb is always contentious. Sometimes best to go without, or near without, for rough mixes. Avoids the criticism.

Working with a lot of indie rock bands lately..  Every time I do a rough mix..

"you gonna put some reverb on that, right?"

Second rough mix with what I think is an appropriate amount of reverb...

Them: "Hey, we want some reverb on that, can you put reverb on that?"

Me: "Uhh, there IS reverb on that..(solo the reverb to show it's dripping with reverb..)"

Them: "oh yeah, that sounds good.  Can you make it sound like that?"

Me: "But.. that's JUST the reverb you hear.."

Them: "Yeah, that's how we envisioned it sounding like, like a big wall of sound!!!"

Me: Facepalm.. "Oh, ok, well..  Lets keep going on the recording and we'll work on this later.."

Me: Goes to the "bathroom" but instead gets a shot of bourbon.. or three.

I usually look at it like trying to talk about colors to a partially color blind person. You both see a color differently. I have found that just having a good conversation with a client about music or anything really helps me understand there perspective and how they think. This goes a long way in avoiding conflicts.

My way of saying that the client interaction is sometime harder then the technical aspect of the mix. Getting inside of their head, because people do tend to leave to much for the mix.

Mandatory here. Cuts out a lot of discussion and fucking around.

Yesterday I had the client over for some mastering i was doing for him. I don't like clients in the room when I'm mixing but he was driving past and he was bringing cash!!LOL

Anyway because of the m/s processing I was using some notes in the solo section were too loud. I was about to fix it when he suggested putting a delay on the offending notes. Bear in mind I'w working with a stereo mix here. He said it was what worked for him so I thought wtf I'll try it. Sounded terrible BUT he loved it and that's all that mattered at that point. Smiling client = paying client!
So instead of trying to educate, because my ego thought it was a shitty idea, the session goes smoothly and everyone's happy.
Lesson: Make client happy regardless of what my stupid ego might be discussing with me!!LOL