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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 2, 2017 12:52:08 GMT -6
Hey,
Peeps at the Ua forum are discussing the new way lower prices at Sweetwater and elsewhere effective Jan/ 1.
With Namm coming up very soon they are speculating that UA will launch new cards using the newer sharc sort to dual core chip so doubling dsp and or may launch a 16 chip card where the octo used to be priced and maybe drop a quad core twin too.
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Post by nick8801 on Jan 2, 2017 15:12:44 GMT -6
Exciting stuff!
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jan 2, 2017 15:19:17 GMT -6
Maybe I am wrong but I really could of used this new UAD sharcs card / Apollo upgrade about two years ago... to me they are two years too late and with native plugs getting better and better I don't see a point to keep buying $500 or $1000 cards that max out at 4/8 plugs... If I want to print every return I will use my hardware...Hoping the new dsp can run quadruple the plugin #'s of the old otherwise most users will be disappointed in the High dual octo card ($1000-$1500) ( guess price ) price and marginal increase. If they up from 4 mono ( old ) to 16 mono ( new ) at a lower price they will have a hit!and many will now join the UAD platform because dsp limits would be a thing if the past... here is to hoping the new UAD 3 is a big success 😀
I am an original adopter, SF FW user, do you know if they offered a real upgrade to then I would have jumped. Upgrading converter chips is not what I call a huge upgrade. If it had 8-16 dsp chips , redesigned and improved analog stages ( showing with music and specs ) , improved D to A monitoring path to the " mastering quality outputs " a la a dangerous or crane song for the same price ( givenorntake a couple hundred ) they would crush the competition. Hope their new launch is successful ðŸ¤
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2017 15:43:37 GMT -6
Maybe I am wrong but I really could of used this new UAD sharcs card / Apollo upgrade about two years ago... to me they are two years too late and with native plugs getting better and better I don't see a point to keep buying $500 or $1000 cards that max out at 4/8 plugs... If I want to print every return I will use my hardware...Hoping the new dsp can run quadruple the plugin #'s of the old otherwise most users will be disappointed in the High dual octo card ($1000-$1500) ( guess price ) price and marginal increase. If they up from 4 mono ( old ) to 16 mono ( new ) at a lower price they will have a hit!and many will now join the UAD platform because dsp limits would be a thing if the past... here is to hoping the new UAD 3 is a big success 😀 I am an original adopter, SF FW user, do you know if they offered a real upgrade to then I would have jumped. Upgrading converter chips is not what I call a huge upgrade. If it had 8-16 dsp chips , redesigned and improved analog stages ( showing with music and specs ) , improved D to A monitoring path to the " mastering quality outputs " a la a dangerous or crane song for the same price ( givenorntake a couple hundred ) they would crush the competition. Hope their new launch is successful 🤠I know the company has to make money, but c'mon.. Another device taking up another power socket, which shouldn't have any issues running natively and not requiring said external device. Which becomes defunct after a while, due to bringing newer versions of the same plugs in more in which you can have less instances of them so you need the higher powered stuff. Which originally cost a fortune, but now costs half of what they used to because they want to build heavier plugins to sell their new dongles effectively. I like UAD stuff (which I bought into), but they really need to improve and streamline this whole cyclical process. There's plenty of great natives out there..
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Post by miscend on Jan 2, 2017 16:00:33 GMT -6
Why do they still bother with Sharc chips?
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Post by reddirt on Jan 2, 2017 19:50:55 GMT -6
You guys must be running some massive mixes if you're running out of processing. Cheers, Ross
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2017 20:05:10 GMT -6
You guys must be running some massive mixes if you're running out of processing. Cheers, Ross Not really, the UAD-2 DUO I bought for around 500 euro's I believe will only run 8 instances (stereo) or 12 (mono) of their new LA2A. With something like T-racks on an octocore I7 I'll be spinning at about 2% - 4% useage for a full mix.
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Post by mrholmes on Jan 2, 2017 20:16:20 GMT -6
I think if you have one quad card there is still enough power on it if you don't run 24 times an LA2A! Who needs 24 times an LA2A in some Studios your are happy if you have one in real HW.
I don't need a new card if they want to make money they should lower the plug in prices which are still insane high for my taste.
The competition is named native and there is enough processing power in computers today. Clever programming shows that you can have a beautiful sound with minimal CPU load LEXICON / SLATE etc.
As much as I like UAD but sometimes I just think SIGH.....
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 2, 2017 20:21:05 GMT -6
I figured something big was coming, why else would they be giving away quad satellites? They'll probably become doorstops otherwise, as far as UAD is concerned.
I've had an Apollo Duo since it came out. I couldn't afford the Quad. Recently, I sold my Duo for an Apollo 8 Duo because they offered a free quad satellite. I can't use the extra DSP for tracking, but sure can use it on mixes. Funny, as UAD will likely address the major shortcoming of the Apollo series, dsp power, I'm outgrowing the whole in the box format now.
I'd much rather have an analogue final mix with a Stam SSL and two Warm Audio EQP-1A's, than any plugin EQ or compressor. Still, I use the Ocean Way plug on a bus to run every track through it, and like UAD's Oxide tape on a track or two occasionally. I still use their ATR-102, but I consider that more of a stereo EQ and not a tape sim. Try the 30 ips mastering or smooth vocal setting, tweak a little, and it's often a little better sounding, but I don't get the rush of tape, so I could do without it or use one of my other company's tape sim if I had to. The thing that might be fun, is that I never use their 1176 or Fatso because I didn't have the dsp. So, maybe I'll begin to enjoy the UAD platform more, now that I can use some 1176's, a Massive Passive, and LA2's simultaneously, and maybe a few other plugs I stopped using.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 2, 2017 20:36:07 GMT -6
Very interesting, I was wondering what UA have been up to!
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 2, 2017 20:44:26 GMT -6
I certainly retain the right to take this back...but I don't really know what else I need from them.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 2, 2017 20:48:38 GMT -6
Its interesting how people see things differently. People have complained about the price of UA dsp so it has apparently addressed that by dropping prices pretty significantly. People have also expressed concerns about the new plugs in use more dsp so maybe at NAMM they release a more powerful card !6 chips at the price of the original 8? and maybe to they start using the newer dual core like sharc chips, which would double dsp but don't require recoding so no uad-3 for now. I have a apollo quad and an octo card and have never maxed them out. I don't know if people have been up on the UA site recently but they have been having more sales and recently reposted the custom bundle deals on the website not just for registration so all their most expensive plug ins can be purchased at almost 70% off retail. So, many people over Christmas just picked up close to $1,000 of the newest plugs ( api 2500, zener and vox box) for $399. The new BF apollos have upgraded converters from the SF. I have never used the new BF 16 which has the best DA so can't comment on where that is relatively but I do know the BF 8 sounds better than the Sf at least to my ears. I know people who have had the new BF apollo and switched to the new apogee and prefer it. When I price a new apogee symphony mkii, it is almost 100% more than my current bf Apollo and the apogee has no pres and no dsp. I am sure the apogee sounds great and I know the apollo and UA aren't for everyone but I personally think my apollo system works great and is good value. It seems to me that UA has been quietly rationalizing its products and business model to lower prices, add performance and value but to each their own, of course
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2017 21:02:56 GMT -6
Its interesting how people see things differently. People have complained about the price of UA dsp so it has apparently addressed that by dropping prices pretty significantly. People have also expressed concerns about the new plugs in use more dsp so maybe at NAMM they release a more powerful card !6 chips at the price of the original 8? and maybe to they start using the newer dual core like sharc chips, which would double dsp but don't require recoding so no uad-3 for now. I have a apollo quad and an octo card and have never maxed them out. I don't know if people have been up on the UA site recently but they have been having more sales and recently reposted the custom bundle deals on the website not just for registration so all their most expensive plug ins can be purchased at almost 70% off retail. So, many people over Christmas just picked up close to $1,000 of the newest plugs ( api 2500, zener and vox box) for $399. The new BF apollos have upgraded converters from the SF. I have never used the new BF 16 which has the best DA so can't comment on where that is relatively but I do know the BF 8 sounds better than the Sf at least to my ears. I know people who have had the new BF apollo and switched to the new apogee and prefer it. When I price a new apogee symphony mkii, it is almost 100% more than my current bf Apollo and the apogee has no pres and no dsp. I am sure the apogee sounds great and I know the apollo and UA aren't for everyone but I personally think my apollo system works great and is good value. It seems to me that UA has been quietly rationalizing its products and business model to lower prices, add performance and value but to each their own, of course Considering you can pick up the entire T-racks suite of 30+ plugins for the price you paid for that special offer. It does put things in perspective a little bit, it's not like the T-racks stuff is un-usable either, quite a few plugs are on par or better. Like I picked up the UAD precision limiter, not used it more than once as IK's stealth does a much better job. The reason I use UAD is for more of the niche stuff that nothing I've found comes close, like the UAD cooper time cube. Also a big fan of the API 2500 you mentioned, if someone made native plugs on par or better then I'd sell my sattelite for a couple of hundred bucks (including plugs) and not bother with it. As said on a decent I7 machine, you could use more instances than a UAD quad (doubt you'd need to but whatever) without the need to use an extra plug socket.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 2, 2017 21:25:06 GMT -6
I like the hybrid system some plugs native ( fab filter, soundtoys, etc) and some UA. I have an i7 quad core and frankly it is not the plug in panacea you suggest. I can remember it chocking on slate vcc all the time In fact, I could never load vcc across my entire session so consequently stopped using it. Its just one example but that is why I like the hybrid system. I bought my ua octo card cus at the time they gave me a $1060 coupon so I felt like either the cards or the plugs were 50% off. Recording and gear is very personal, we all have our own workflows/preferences,its great to have options ! I like UA stuff but I am turning into a real hard sell as I have so many plugs ins from a variety of suppliers I hardly ever use. So I am more interested in better interfaces ( apogee ?) and buying outboard when I can afford it. If I was starting over, knowing what I know now, I think I would pull a Wiz great pres and mikes, outboard and a good small real board (delta) and very good 16-24 channels conversion.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2017 22:01:05 GMT -6
I like the hybrid system some plugs native ( fab filter, soundtoys, etc) and some UA. I have an i7 quad core and frankly it is not the plug in panacea you suggest. I can remember it chocking on slate vcc all the time In fact, I could never load vcc across my entire session so consequently stopped using it. Its just one example but that is why I like the hybrid system. I bought my ua octo card cus at the time they gave me a $1060 coupon so I felt like either the cards or the plugs were 50% off. Recording and gear is very personal, we all have our own workflows/preferences,its great to have options ! I like UA stuff but I am turning into a real hard sell as I have so many plugs ins from a variety of suppliers I hardly ever use. So I am more interested in better interfaces ( apogee ?) and buying outboard when I can afford it. If I was starting over, knowing what I know now, I think I would pull a Wiz great pres and mikes, outboard and a good small real board (delta) and very good 16-24 channels conversion. Well I decided to test it out, I threw a fair few plugs in to Samplitude over 20 or so tracks (around six per track and a suite on the master bus). I've not managed to get it past 10% CPU usage (hovered around 8-9%), if I do something like lightmapping (games stuff) it eat's my processor for breakfast.. This is with some virtual instruments too, I had Superior Drummer split out.. Can't you upload images to this forum? Well anyway, it's either the plug isn't exactly "optimised" or it's the DAW or something. But yeah, I go every way from sunday at the moment.. OTB / Plugs / dongles etc. etc.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 2, 2017 22:02:07 GMT -6
I'm kind of where John is. I don't need much more from UAD, but figured since I was invested, getting the new Apollo 8 with the quad satellite thrown in was a no brainer. As time passes, I can see that just keeping the satellite for some plugin use could become viable if I wanted a different interface. Printing with plugs is a very nice option if you have little or no hardware, but if you do, it's not that big a deal.
UAD does say somewhere that printing with the re-mic option gets you closest to the Ocean Way sound, but I'm not a fan of re-micing, unless it's to help correct a track done with a cheap mic.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jan 3, 2017 1:31:43 GMT -6
Sorry, from my experience the UA plugs aren't worth the dsp system cost plus plugin asking price. Some do sound amazing .. After buying into the dsp system and the exorbitant cost of each new plug $300+ each plug should. An octo card plus 6 new plugs ( you know the mk1's aren't going to cut it, they could give away some mk2 while including legacy, but rarely do ) for 799 is new MBP prices.... ( $2300 )
Imo, they re introduced the 3 for 399 to give customers incentive to buy because single plug purchases were lacking.. Not to mention their Black Friday sale was mehhh. I could have picked any 3 plugs from UA and couldn't even find 3 for 399 I really need. I'm sure with wants wise I could find 3 but then how much will I use then new plugs? The $ could be saved or spent elsewhere.
Size of mixes....
I don't run 300 track mixes, however I work at 24/48 which is less instance counts and people who work 24/96 even less... I have never ran out of dsp either due to printing, however I shouldn't have to worry about that, I don't natively... I don't like knowing I am limited to an abitrary instance count just like pro tools and their stupid track number limit from vanilla to hd. Especially when paying a premium for UAD...
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 3, 2017 4:57:06 GMT -6
Back to perspective a while back I stripped out all my ua plugs and remixed using another companies. The mix just didn't have the same quality so I went back to my ua hybrid system.
All systems have limitations UA's is the dsp chips and the solution is simple enough buy more cards or not.
It's interesting the different experiences people have with different products. We know it's all code but as its all proprietary guess we will never know all the gory deets of exactly what process and qa is followed.
I find to up sampling interesting and then the anomalies like switching gears the updates to things like slate fg-x. I just stopped using it it's been so long.
Anyway Namm is always fun to find out about new industry offerings:looking forward to it!
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Post by reddirt on Jan 3, 2017 6:14:32 GMT -6
Guys, I see people dissing UA and particularly their prices all the time and I 'm compelled to ask if they've ever run a company with many employees such as UA does. It's not for the faint hearted and costs a heap even before the cost of innovation is factored in not to mention that others such as Warm, Behringer (Klark Tech) etc, etc lift your designs with impunity.
Personally, i reckon they try hard to be relevant to the market and by and large make excellent, stand up product to be grateful for.
I run a satellite duo , love it and rarely run out of processing power on predominantly acoustic material.
Just another $.02 worth. Cheers, Ross
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Post by nick8801 on Jan 3, 2017 6:51:42 GMT -6
I find the prices of the UA plugs and cards fair of you're mostly in the box. If you just use the 1176 once in a while, it's probably not for you. As far as running out of processing goes, I try to use their plugs as I would use hardware. In other words, one instance of Lexicon with several tracks feeding into it. The same goes for any other reverb I would use. Maybe 2 1176 plugs and an la2a in there somewhere. A few more instances of the legacy 1073 eq(the light version if I need a lot), and maybe some other modulation/ saturation depending on the mix. That's pretty standard for me these days and I'm on a silver face quad thunderbolt working at 48. There has been very few times I've run out of power with that workflow. I wish I could return plugins as I really don't use all the ones I have purchased, but in the amount of time I've owned my Apollo, it's really not the biggest expense in my studio.
Now what would I like from UA...well I love the interface, and the workflow. The Apollo is very stable, and the mixer is so easy to work with. What I always struggle with is the conversion. It's a love hate thing. Sometimes I'm like conversion doesn't matter, but really it does, and I think the Apollos still fall a little short of their potential. I'd love a mark 3 Apollo with conversion that's on par with a symphony, and if they got more processing in there then great! If they can't upgrade in that department, I'm pretty sure I'm going to change platforms the next time I feel I need an upgrade.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2017 8:12:37 GMT -6
Guys, I see people dissing UA and particularly their prices all the time and I 'm compelled to ask if they've ever run a company with many employees such as UA does. It's not for the faint hearted and costs a heap even before the cost of innovation is factored in not to mention that others such as Warm, Behringer (Klark Tech) etc, etc lift your designs with impunity. Personally, i reckon they try hard to be relevant to the market and by and large make excellent, stand up product to be grateful for. I run a satellite duo , love it and rarely run out of processing power on predominantly acoustic material. Just another $.02 worth. Cheers, Ross Hold on, when did providing constructive criticism equate to dissing a company? Also what's running a company got to do with it? In an ever changing industry they are either price competitive or they aren't. What matters is what YOU get for the money, not whatever it is (insert company here) is doing. Even the greatest company's of them all make bad decisions, in what way should anyone be greatful for that? We seem a little too eager to tap dance around an industry plagued with hit and miss products / snake oil tactic marketing (especially in the low end / plugin market), people buy into it, regret it and don't say a word until the next person comes along and falls into the same trap. Also because sonic quality is "personal", some will defend certain things to the hilt and they really don't have a clue whether something sounds good or not. I'm not saying UAD falls into this category, if nothing else they are a safe bet for most things (which in the long run can save you money). I've racked up more money than I'd like to admit buying flavour of the month pieces that deserve little more than a hammer (or a swift delete). So on the whole UAD plugs are decent, but they should give you an option to go via another dongle whether it be ILOK or whatever else, if you need more juice then buy a DSP unit. For the two or three go to plugins I use from UAD, it'd make things much easier. Hell they'd probably get more business, people without a sattelite would be able to demo their plugs and more would probably buy into the UAD economy.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 3, 2017 8:28:56 GMT -6
I always cherry pick my plugin prices with coupons and seasonal sales, so they're generally some of the cheapest plugins I own. I guess I don't have stuff like Massive Passive, Ocean Way, etc, but what I do have covers most of my needs. I don't really lust after most of the new plugins for some reason.
I guess at a certain point it's true, you really don't need much more. I think that maybe speaks to the quality of the UA gear, and the utter saturation of the computer audio market. I could really use a second Apollo but that's a big purchase for me.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 3, 2017 8:42:24 GMT -6
There wil be a mkii Apollo, as it fundamentally needs to re designed due to its current FPGA bandwidth dsp limitations. The curretn Apollo cannot pass any more dsp. so more powerful cards will likely happen first.
UA does a client survey and people have been critical for it not upgrading the AD the same on the 8 and 16 but putting the best DA only in the 16.
Personally, I hope that UA stop making distinctions between the 8 and 16 other than pres and no pres and puts the very best conversion in both and at least octo power and why not the equivalent of 16 chips. The sharc chips are not expensive. So, I hope a very rationalized Apollo mkiii comes out with higher end conversion, monitoring and the option of 2x and or 4x the current onboard dsp.
UA has to address this as for tracking in console with UA plugs you can only use onboard interface dsp not satellites.
So I think the next gen Apollo mkiii will be a real powerhouse but is probably 2 years away or so ?
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jan 3, 2017 11:03:45 GMT -6
I agree crippling the Apollo 8 for no reason is dumb. Let the Apollo line shine from each piece to the next... when UAD structures their HW like this they are essentially competing against their own products. If each product has the same analog stage, conversion etc then more people would buy into the platform. However knowing that the 16 is the " best " and the 8 has lesser quality chips that's an issue and makes customers feel like they are getting a lesser quality interface...
I don't care what it takes to run a company like UA, they need to listen to their customers, and their business model benefits them and their bottom line not the buyer, ever. A plugin cost is an abitrary thing...UA could have priced the new API 2500 at $199 and sold 10x what they have sold, however paying API affects UA's bottom line as well and well all know UA loves their profit margins....
At what point does the plugin pay for itself? If it cost UA $100,000 to make API 2500, that's only 1000 licenses at $100 to break even... 2000 licenses at $100 doubles your investment, 3000 licenses at $100 triples your investment ( 200% ) and for retail lovers 4000 licenses at $100 is $400,000 ( what retail aims to make 300% )..
The plug is actually $300 ( let's say $250 cuz every one has a measly $25 or $50 off ) so let's say it took $250,000 to make API 2500 ( I doubt ) that's 2500 licenses at $100 = $250,000, 2500 licenses at $150 = $375,000, 5000 licenses x $100= $500,000, 2000 licenses x 250 = $500,000, 2500 licenses x 250 = $625,000 3000 licenses x $250= $750,000, 4000 licenses at $250= $1,000,000. Get where this is going? $$$$$$
Oh ya this cost does not include the quad card, octo card, satellite, or dsp cost the customer pays for...UA could make everything more affordable but they want their name as a one of the elite hi end pro brands.
If UA has sold 500 licenses of API 2500 at retail that's $150,000...what do you think the API 2500 costs to produce?
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 3, 2017 13:40:33 GMT -6
Hmm crippled seems a little harsh the 16 is the ua flagship interface so I thought they just put the top of the line DA in there for that reason. UA says that the Apollo 8 and the 16 sonically are very close and they do sell at different price points, but there is nothing crippled in the sense of designed non functionality in the apollo8. But I agree with you ,I as a consumer find it frustrating to think I have to buy an interface I don't want to get the best DA and would have preferred UA to just make the converters the same and jig the prices slightly or what ever. The converters must be very small % of the units' total costs ?
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