|
|
Post by ragan on Mar 18, 2024 9:55:50 GMT -6
Still experimenting with whether this is a good fit for my voice, but I love it so much on guitar and drums (and likely lots and lots of other sources) that I kept it. The VL37a has so much reach into the sound. Presents so much life and detail in this very pleasing way, with nothing sticking out. Have you (or anyone else reading and able to comment) compared a VL37 with a cloud lifter to a VL37a? I haven’t ever had the opportunity to use the passive VL37. I’m sure it sounds great though. There will be more Samar mics in my future, I’m pretty sure. |
|
|
|
Post by ab101 on Mar 18, 2024 12:09:54 GMT -6
Have you (or anyone else reading and able to comment) compared a VL37 with a cloud lifter to a VL37a? I haven’t ever had the opportunity to use the passive VL37. I’m sure it sounds great though. There will be more Samar mics in my future, I’m pretty sure. That is what I have - the passive ones and they are stunning. Knowing Mark Fouxman - he is so meticulous - he will not release a mic that does not sound great. |
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Mar 18, 2024 12:52:16 GMT -6
I haven’t ever had the opportunity to use the passive VL37. I’m sure it sounds great though. There will be more Samar mics in my future, I’m pretty sure. That is what I have - the passive ones and they are stunning. Knowing Mark Fouxman - he is so meticulous - he will not release a mic that does not sound great. I have a pair of the passives as well, and yes, they are STUNNING! I'm curious if the much touted additional reach of the active version can be replicated using a cloud-lifter or other active booster with the passive version |
|
|
|
Post by ragan on Mar 18, 2024 13:40:53 GMT -6
Have other folks remarked on the ‘reach’ quality on active vs passive? Because I’ve always heard similar things in discussion and clips of the passive VL37.
|
|
|
|
Post by recordingengineer on Mar 18, 2024 16:55:56 GMT -6
When I bought my custom (top-end purposefully rolled-off) VL37A in 2017, I was planning for passive since it’s specifically for drum room. Here’s what Mark said was the difference:
“In general, active version has about 4dB lower noise (important for a room mic), tighter low end and less distortion (more transparent sound). It also much less sensitive to cables quality and preamp choice.”
|
|
|
|
Post by jampa on Mar 18, 2024 17:31:56 GMT -6
Believe a significant factor there is the impedance the mic sees
Ribbons react differently coupled to high impedance than low impedance (say mic preamp input)
You will see that there are specialist 'ribbon mic preamps' with high input impedances. Believe this approach is "impedance bridging" rather than most mic pres which are closer to "impedance matching"
|
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Mar 18, 2024 18:28:08 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by markfouxman on Mar 20, 2024 13:55:37 GMT -6
That is what I have - the passive ones and they are stunning. Knowing Mark Fouxman - he is so meticulous - he will not release a mic that does not sound great. I have a pair of the passives as well, and yes, they are STUNNING! I'm curious if the much touted additional reach of the active version can be replicated using a cloud-lifter or other active booster with the passive version Ward,
Our active version of VL37 is totally different from the active boosters. The main difference is entire gain in VL37A is done in a very high ratio transformer (~1:150) with a buffer to bring output impedance to a standard value of the microphone output. As such, besides sonic qualities, there is no any added noise. The booster gain stage is built around jFets and as such, inevitably adds a few dB of noise. We do make an 'AL Active' in-line preamp, which has an additional 18dB gain. It is a transformer based device and doesn't add any noise. We made it specifically for our AL95 ribbons, which have too small of the body, so the regular active circuit doesn't fit inside, or any other ribbon microphones. Obviously, they can be used with the VL37, as well.
Best, M
|
|
|
|
Post by markfouxman on Mar 20, 2024 13:59:01 GMT -6
Believe a significant factor there is the impedance the mic sees Ribbons react differently coupled to high impedance than low impedance (say mic preamp input) You will see that there are specialist 'ribbon mic preamps' with high input impedances. Believe this approach is "impedance bridging" rather than most mic pres which are closer to "impedance matching" Jampa,
This is an excellent point! Some time ago I wrote a little paper on this very topic of ribbon impedance loading on another forum. I am reposting it here:
The issue of the ribbon loading is quite complex and has many different (often contradictory) considerations. A 'naked' ribbon's impedance is mostly resistive except at the resonant frequency peak (which can be considerable). It becomes a problem, however, when we connect to a ribbon transformer, which usually has a raised impedance towards the top. Also, a 'naked' ribbon is prone to a series of resonances, which depend on ribbon's dimensions and thickness.
In order to smooth out the resonance peak and uneven transformer impedance, as well as remove resonances we need to apply a load. Here we have two types of the load--mechanical and electrical. Both have similar effect on restricting ribbon's movement. The mechanical is done by means of protective screens and increases the air load on the ribbon, while electrical increases impedance load. To understand the last part, if we go to an extreme and short the transformer secondaries with ribbon connected, the ribbon will be locked. When designing a ribbon microphone it is important to balance those two types of loading and not to overdamp the ribbon. Also, it is important to understand that increase of loading flattens response, but at the same time since it restricts ribbon's movement the mic loses natural sonics and its 'relaxed' sound.
Since our ribbon microphones have quite an extended top end response and our transformers are wound on amorphous torroidal cores, which are very efficient and have extremely low losses, for a flat response we do not need to load the ribbons too much to get a flat response. Measured on a vector impedance meter our transformers show around 370 Ohm impedance at 100kHz (!!!), while other types of the transformers usually at a few kOhm at that frequency. As such, our transformers have very uniform load across entire bandwidth, with no loading increase on high frequencies, without affecting top end response. That is the main reason for us to chose 10kOhm load impedance and has a very positive effect of preserving natural sonics. It also benefits other ribbon microphones, as often subjectively the relaxed and natural sound is much more important than formally flat response (which often can be corrected with EQ).
Best, M
|
|
rpc
Junior Member
Posts: 69
|
Post by rpc on Mar 21, 2024 7:22:06 GMT -6
"...if we go to an extreme and short the transformer secondaries with ribbon connected, the ribbon will be locked." Hmmm...does this mean it would be advantageous to short out the microphone when storing/shipping it?
|
|
|
|
Post by markfouxman on Mar 21, 2024 15:07:07 GMT -6
"...if we go to an extreme and short the transformer secondaries with ribbon connected, the ribbon will be locked." Hmmm...does this mean it would be advantageous to short out the microphone when storing/shipping it? Excellent question!
With late Leslie Watts we discussed this many times. The easiest way to do it is to make a little ball out of kitchen foil and squeeze between XLR pins to short them. Of course, you could take a corresponding female XLR and short its pins. In the end we decided against it. The reason--we use proprietory corrugation, which is very stable and long lasting. Out of 1000's ribbon microphones we shipped in many years I can remember only one case of getting damaged in shipping. Ironically, that happened when we were sending a VL37 to this forum member for a review and shootout).
But obviously, that would not hurt. Something like skinny plastic zip bag over the mic is also a good way to protect it.
Best, M
|
|
|
|
Post by hadaja on Mar 22, 2024 1:32:42 GMT -6
wow i love these conversations about ribbon mics and the intricate science/mechanics of manufacturing the final product.
|
|
