kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 24, 2016 20:41:33 GMT -6
not certain where you are getting this Altran isn't front and centre perspective from ? It is highlighted in the description on the Warm website and product page, labeled in the pics, like cinemag before and labelled on the back of the unit ? It has also been stated in every video clip I have seen so far. "We are proud to be using input and output transformers that are made in the USA by high-end transformer manufacturer, Altran. We worked closely with Altran to create unique transformers that extend the low frequency response of the design. The transformers also use a vintage winding technique that produces a very distinct smooth & open character." Its hard to know what a pre you haven't used before is actually going to perform like but as I had tonebeasts in the past, I am thinking the wa412 will be more dynamic and I guess just essentially that api sound , but maybe a little bigger, wider freq spectrum? Really looking forward to trying it with the drums, guitars and bass and I am curious about the impedance switch and how clean the more neutral setting actually is ? I have the UA api vision plug in but I like the idea of using a real pre instead, since I got my d4s I never use my unison pres, just track through the d4s and want the wa412 to compliment them.
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Post by M57 on Dec 24, 2016 20:52:07 GMT -6
since I got my d4s I never use my unison pres, just track through the d4s and want the wa412 to compliment them. I'm in the same boat with my D4's, but I don't need four more pre's not to mention I don't want to spend $1k+. That's why I'm considering the WA-12, or more likely, the Tone Beast.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 24, 2016 21:12:53 GMT -6
Ragan had the wa12 for quite a while andreally liked it: maybe he will chime in? I don't think he had the TB12 though ?
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Post by ragan on Dec 24, 2016 22:05:02 GMT -6
Yeah I think the WA12s are great. Used my pair on all kinds of things. Chad from Warm posted a very detailed description on where the WA12 and WA-412 differ. I think here in this thread?
Could be price, could be volume/schedule. Could just be that they wanted the two products to have their own space in the market.
Altran is certainly as good as anyone. The gear that uses their trannies is top shelf stuff.
For me the WA-412 is a no brainer. That's $300/channel for serious, transformer mic pres. I'll be picking one up.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 24, 2016 22:12:57 GMT -6
not certain where you are getting this Altran isn't front and centre perspective from ? It is highlighted in the description on the Warm website and product page, labeled in the pics, like cinemag before and labelled on the back of the unit ? It has also been stated in every video clip I have seen so far. "We are proud to be using input and output transformers that are made in the USA by high-end transformer manufacturer, Altran. We worked closely with Altran to create unique transformers that extend the low frequency response of the design. The transformers also use a vintage winding technique that produces a very distinct smooth & open character." View AttachmentIts hard to know what a pre you haven't used before is actually going to perform like but as I had tonebeasts in the past, I am thinking the wa412 will be more dynamic and I guess just essentially that api sound , but maybe a little bigger, wider freq spectrum? Really looking forward to trying it with the drums, guitars and bass and I am curious about the impedance switch and how clean the more neutral setting actually is ? I have the UA api vision plug in but I like the idea of using a real pre instead, since I got my d4s I never use my unison pres, just track through the d4s and want the wa412 to compliment them. I stand corrected. When I posted the initial web page prior to the launch, the Altran transformers seemed to be a footnote. Looks like they've changed that.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 24, 2016 23:36:45 GMT -6
You make some good points Jesse, but in my experience with Bryce, he's always gone for the better sounding option. So, if I had to guess, I'd say the Altran was better sounding in this case.
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 25, 2016 4:08:46 GMT -6
Well, I think both points are true:that Bryce goes for best sound but I 'd express the money differently ? He looks for best value too ? I think Jesse makes a good point that that is subjective. Warm stuff could be more expensive but isn't due to design,parts and manufacturing decisions and small company low overhead model.So, I try to read the info on the site and then further research, like the Reich anBach/Cinemag history, cool gear pedigree info! So, I feel Bryce strives for performance authenticity but to a price point not to save money but to add best value and we would all have our own sense of that. I'm sure not going to argue with wiz that the wa87 isn't an actual 87, like his real one But I feel the wa87 will have similar performance but be much more affordable? I respect entrepreneurs for their passion and the risks they take and wish them all well as we all benefit.
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Post by miscend on Dec 25, 2016 6:12:06 GMT -6
Well, I for one am disappointed (but not surprised) that the Bryce went with the 412. It's probably a good marketing decision, (although between the 412 and the 87 he may be branching out a bit too quickly) but I and a few others here were hoping for a WA73 - so now I'm back to the drawing board in my hunt for an affordable high-end mic pre to complement and contrast with my D4's. But Warm have never done anything Neve. I always thought their niche was API inspired gear. With all that said I wonder when CAPI will do their 1073 pre.
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Post by M57 on Dec 25, 2016 7:26:35 GMT -6
Well, I for one am disappointed (but not surprised) that the Bryce went with the 412. It's probably a good marketing decision, (although between the 412 and the 87 he may be branching out a bit too quickly) but I and a few others here were hoping for a WA73 - so now I'm back to the drawing board in my hunt for an affordable high-end mic pre to complement and contrast with my D4's. But Warm have never done anything Neve. I always thought their niche was API inspired gear. With all that said I wonder when CAPI will do their 1073 pre. I suppose in the context of it complimenting my D4's - either API or Neve would do - I just had it in my mind that the Neve was the better foil.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 25, 2016 7:30:43 GMT -6
Just depends which sound you want ? Stam is certainly a viable option just not here yet.
I think I saw two 7 circle one shots neves on reverb ?
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Post by ChaseUTB on Dec 25, 2016 21:44:04 GMT -6
But Warm have never done anything Neve. I always thought their niche was API inspired gear. With all that said I wonder when CAPI will do their 1073 pre. I suppose in the context of it complimenting my D4's - either API or Neve would do - I just had it in my mind that the Neve was the better foil. I think with your mic and setup for Vox you should go with a neve style pre. do you have 500 series rack? Don classics eq73 is crazy value, can be ordered as a kit or built as well as the aml ez1073. I will provide links to both. Other wise, like kcatthedog suggested maybe seventh circle or hair ball audio... Not sure how you would do 19" Neve style for your budget unless you did up your budget to $1000 which then 1290 style pres (1073 no eq ) will be available eq and used to you. Again for 500 series maybe a used Great River nv1 for $600 ($795 new ) I am pretty sure the aml can be had in 19" though... www.audiomaintenance.com/acatalog/aml-17-020_extended_info.htmlwww.audiomaintenance.com/acatalog/AML-16-021_extended_info.htmlwww.thedonclassics.com/nv73eq-diy.html
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Post by deehope on Dec 26, 2016 0:21:52 GMT -6
If I'm remembering correctly, before bryce started warm I think he used to make 1073 preamps. Well, I for one am disappointed (but not surprised) that the Bryce went with the 412. It's probably a good marketing decision, (although between the 412 and the 87 he may be branching out a bit too quickly) but I and a few others here were hoping for a WA73 - so now I'm back to the drawing board in my hunt for an affordable high-end mic pre to complement and contrast with my D4's. But Warm have never done anything Neve. I always thought their niche was API inspired gear. With all that said I wonder when CAPI will do their 1073 pre.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 26, 2016 5:53:22 GMT -6
I suppose in the context of it complimenting my D4's - either API or Neve would do - I just had it in my mind that the Neve was the better foil. I think with your mic and setup for Vox you should go with a neve style pre. do you have 500 series rack? Don classics eq73 is crazy value, can be ordered as a kit or built as well as the aml ez1073. I will provide links to both. Other wise, like kcatthedog suggested maybe seventh circle or hair ball audio... Not sure how you would do 19" Neve style for your budget unless you did up your budget to $1000 which then 1290 style pres (1073 no eq ) will be available eq and used to you. Again for 500 series maybe a used Great River nv1 for $600 ($795 new ) I am pretty sure the aml can be had in 19" though... www.audiomaintenance.com/acatalog/aml-17-020_extended_info.htmlwww.audiomaintenance.com/acatalog/AML-16-021_extended_info.htmlwww.thedonclassics.com/nv73eq-diy.html
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 26, 2016 5:56:30 GMT -6
Two 7 circle single shots can be mounted in a 19 chassis/panel ( think its the rackass one and the pres are pre-driled for this) so you could do 2 of those diy for well under a grand around $800 ?
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Post by M57 on Dec 26, 2016 6:16:20 GMT -6
I suppose in the context of it complimenting my D4's - either API or Neve would do - I just had it in my mind that the Neve was the better foil. I think with your mic and setup for Vox you should go with a neve style pre. do you have 500 series rack? Don classics eq73 is crazy value, can be ordered as a kit or built as well as the aml ez1073. I will provide links to both. Other wise, like kcatthedog suggested maybe seventh circle or hair ball audio... Not sure how you would do 19" Neve style for your budget unless you did up your budget to $1000 which then 1290 style pres (1073 no eq ) will be available eq and used to you. Again for 500 series maybe a used Great River nv1 for $600 ($795 new ) I am pretty sure the aml can be had in 19" though... www.audiomaintenance.com/acatalog/aml-17-020_extended_info.htmlwww.audiomaintenance.com/acatalog/AML-16-021_extended_info.htmlwww.thedonclassics.com/nv73eq-diy.htmlNeve over API for my mic and music? Well, damn. That's what I hoping you wouldn't say, but you're not the first, so it's probably good advice. I have no 500 series gear, so there's the rub. $1000 or so gets me a 19" 1073, which is what I'm set up for and would make me quite happy, but just to get in the game with 500 series costs me that and more when you consider the cost of the box. So here's where my thinking is at right now.. The only reason I'm considering 500 in the first place is that it would give me more control over the chain before I go ITB. From what I'm gleaning in reading the posts of folks around here, best to d-ess first, then maybe EQ, then compress. As it stands now, the only outboard gear I have are compressors (WA76 and WA-2A), so I was thinking I'd pick up a DBX 520 on the cheap and slap it in before compression. Sibilance is an issue for my vocals. But JK was saying that the ITB compressors are much better than the 520. If I simply got a 1073 recorded it straight ITB, then I could have my cake and eat it. Use the ITB software d-esser and some EQ, then bounce OTB through a WA-2A. Really, if I'm lazy, I can do what I do now and go through the WA-2A as I record, then do everything ITB. (the order would be messed up because I'm thinking d-essing should be first). In other words, just buy a 1073 and be done with it. I'm at a point where I'm pretty sure I'm going to be outsourcing most of the drum work on my recordings, so why open up pandora's tempting 500 box. There - that's what's going on in my little pea-brain. Clear as mud?
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 26, 2016 8:06:59 GMT -6
Personally I'd get the 1073 pre and re- start there and experiment with mike technique and what mike are you using that is so sibilant anyway?
For me nothing beats the fab filter de- esser and I just put it first in the daw when mixing : done.
I haven't used this dbx unit but if JK is having trouble dialling it in, that would give me pause.
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Post by M57 on Dec 26, 2016 8:27:11 GMT -6
..what mike are you using that is so sibilant anyway? Uhmm.. Every mic I've ever tried and I'm starting to take it personally. (Not you ..me) In other words, I don't think it's the mic. I haven't tried but maybe a dozen LDC's, but I'm a pretty experienced vocalist, with a ton of choral experience as soloist and section leader, where you have to spit out those consonants. Also, 100's if not thousands of gigs with a SM58 - GB, Rock, and a good chunk of them with an a capella group back in the 80's. Much less experience in the studio, but I've been doing it a few years now. With LDC's I never sing into the mic. I've tried placing it high and aiming low; placing low and aiming high; singing across, over, below, from 3" to 20", putting rocks in my mouth while standing on one foot, and any number of other techniques, all with varying results, but the bottom line is.. I'm pretty sure I'm a sibilant kind of guy. For the record.. I'm currently using the UM-17B. I love how it sounds in the lower mid-range - and it's a huge improvement over the less expensive mics I've tried before.. NT-1A, AT-4033, Warbler MKID, SM7B and few I can't think of off the top of my head.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 26, 2016 11:53:03 GMT -6
Understood, then maybe a hardware de -esser does make sense but you sure want it to be transparent.
I remember a guy recommending some older dbx units to me before, do you know about them ?
ever tried iaudio's (max's) mk-u47 ?
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Post by ragan on Dec 26, 2016 11:59:51 GMT -6
Understood, then maybe a hardware de -esser does make sense but you sure want it to be transparent. I remember a guy recommending some older dbx units to me before, do you know about them ? ever tried maudio's (max's) mk-u47 ? I think you mean IOAudio
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 26, 2016 14:45:54 GMT -6
yes funny I looked at that and thought thats not right but didn't change it
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Post by ChaseUTB on Dec 27, 2016 1:14:30 GMT -6
M57Hey bud, I dont own 500 series either. I prefer 19" for my personal reasons as well as resale if that ever needs to happen. Most 19" units have specifically designed power supplies for the specific circuit! Not saying 500 series sounds bad or less quality by any means. I have heard your UM17B mic and Vox and I feel the Neve style pre and the wa2a set to compress going in while be the safest and easiest bet. De Essing is frequency specific compression. Don't want to f*** up an amazing take going In due to over compression. Can always De ess later, plus you are going to compress and parallel compress the vocals even more come mix time which will affect the sibilance ( eq cut and boosts as well ). Just removing a one octave -12db bell at 500 he will bring sibilance forward, the body and chest of the voice provides the balance between the lower and upper freq range, which you know being a good singer. With SW De Essers , too much of it makes it worse and sound lispy. That's why I suggest the Izotope Alloy or Nectar de essers for attack and release settings. Does FF pro DS have A/R? Bae 1073 mp or this beaut heritage audio tt73 There heritage audio 4 slot rack is $299.... unfortunately we all know neve style pre isn't cheap. Maybe get the aml 19" kit and have Dan @collective cases build it or another reputable forum member. I'm sure if you emailed the the don classics builder and said 19" he could make it happen, lots of those kit guys are phenomenal builders obviously aside from designing and circuit knowledge. $2200 and up now we are talkin Aurora Audio gtq2 best price per channel feature wise then prob heritage audio, then great river, then bae, RND, then ams Neve, then original vintage as far as price. At this level make sure it's two channel with Line level and eq separated I/O would be added bonus but not always a reality... Also you could consider the new Chandler mic or a Chandler pre. Chandler germanium is reminiscent to me of early neve 1057 style designs. Grainy, earthy, thick, colored...
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Post by M57 on Dec 27, 2016 5:36:57 GMT -6
M57 Hey bud, I dont own 500 series either. I prefer 19" for my personal reasons as well as resale if that ever needs to happen. Most 19" units have specifically designed power supplies for the specific circuit! Not saying 500 series sounds bad or less quality by any means. I have heard your UM17B mic and Vox and I feel the Neve style pre and the wa2a set to compress going in while be the safest and easiest bet. De Essing is frequency specific compression. Don't want to f*** up an amazing take going In due to over compression. Can always De ess later, plus you are going to compress and parallel compress the vocals even more come mix time which will affect the sibilance ( eq cut and boosts as well ). Just removing a one octave -12db bell at 500 he will bring sibilance forward, the body and chest of the voice provides the balance between the lower and upper freq range, which you know being a good singer. With SW De Essers , too much of it makes it worse and sound lispy. That's why I suggest the Izotope Alloy or Nectar de essers for attack and release settings. Does FF pro DS have A/R? Hey Chase.. Thanks man. I'm pretty much heading in the direction you're suggesting. In fact, I'll be heading out to jcoutu's space this afternoon and we're going to shoot out my UM17B with a couple of Neve and API style pre's and my D4. Definitely agree that SW comps go into lisp mode way too easily. You would think that especially in the SW world of options, someone would develop an anti-lisp algorithm for when a user needs to push things. Basically, the way I hear it, the lisp sound is up in the 10-12k range, and it becomes prominent because too many and too wide a range of frequencies are being pulled from the hard ess range. It's almost as if the solution would be to add some artificial 'ess' back into the signal in frequency ranges where they didn't need to be pulled in the first place. Another solution that comes to mind would be to pull multiple bands with tight Q's and even square edges down in uneven fashion, maybe with some kind of harmonic series key so the ess retains it's integrity as it's being pulled from the signal. I wonder if the soothe plug kind of does this when you crank the frequency specific knob? Anyway, just spit-balling. Any developers out there reading this?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2016 8:55:30 GMT -6
M57 Hey bud, I dont own 500 series either. I prefer 19" for my personal reasons as well as resale if that ever needs to happen. Most 19" units have specifically designed power supplies for the specific circuit! Not saying 500 series sounds bad or less quality by any means. I have heard your UM17B mic and Vox and I feel the Neve style pre and the wa2a set to compress going in while be the safest and easiest bet. De Essing is frequency specific compression. Don't want to f*** up an amazing take going In due to over compression. Can always De ess later, plus you are going to compress and parallel compress the vocals even more come mix time which will affect the sibilance ( eq cut and boosts as well ). Just removing a one octave -12db bell at 500 he will bring sibilance forward, the body and chest of the voice provides the balance between the lower and upper freq range, which you know being a good singer. With SW De Essers , too much of it makes it worse and sound lispy. That's why I suggest the Izotope Alloy or Nectar de essers for attack and release settings. Does FF pro DS have A/R? Hey Chase.. Thanks man. I'm pretty much heading in the direction you're suggesting. In fact, I'll be heading out to jcoutu's space this afternoon and we're going to shoot out my UM17B with a couple of Neve and API style pre's and my D4. Definitely agree that SW comps go into lisp mode way too easily. You would think that especially in the SW world of options, someone would develop an anti-lisp algorithm for when a user needs to push things. Basically, the way I hear it, the lisp sound is up in the 10-12k range, and it becomes prominent because too many and too wide a range of frequencies are being pulled from the hard ess range. It's almost as if the solution would be to add some artificial 'ess' back into the signal in frequency ranges where they didn't need to be pulled in the first place. Another solution that comes to mind would be to pull multiple bands with tight Q's and even square edges down in uneven fashion, maybe with some kind of harmonic series key so the ess retains it's integrity as it's being pulled from the signal. I wonder if the soothe plug kind of does this when you crank the frequency specific knob? Anyway, just spit-balling. Any developers out there reading this? Might be worth you checking out the Mojave FET 201, never had sibilance issues with it and it has a smooth top end without any lack of clarity. It's one of the best mic's I've used regardless of price. Been through too many mic's was tired of them having that upper end shrill sound that just got exascerbated with near enough any comp (especially when tracking fem vox). 1176's just seem to add to the issue, I've had a UA 1176 and a WA76 and whilst they are great (for certain things) I'd take an LA2A equiv over them for vox duties any day. I'm going to check out the WA2A and the GAP-Comp2A but I'm also quite interested in the LA610-MK2 channel strip.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 27, 2016 9:28:14 GMT -6
Careful with the 610 marketing it's comp isn't equivalent to an la2a.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Dec 27, 2016 11:14:14 GMT -6
M57 that's awesome hope you and Jesse have a blast! If Jesse has any Chandler preamps please try them as well! It's a fun thing until you realize the sound is worth more than the price 🤣 I think having your mic with you is the best move, but don't be afraid to try any mic Jesse offers to throw up on a stand. And last but never least perform while singing nailing your takes! Have a great day
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