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Post by kevinnyc on Dec 20, 2016 11:15:00 GMT -6
I have a U87ai and, after a rare stroke of luck, recently won a Warm 87 and WA412...
One of my first comparison tests will be with female vocals (when I can catch my elusive vocalist...
Should be interesting...
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Post by Vincent R. on Dec 20, 2016 12:02:10 GMT -6
I have a U87ai and, after a rare stroke of luck, recently won a Warm 87 and WA412... One of my first comparison tests will be with female vocals (when I can catch my elusive vocalist... Should be interesting... Would love to hear clips.
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Post by ragan on Dec 20, 2016 13:04:40 GMT -6
I have a U87ai and, after a rare stroke of luck, recently won a Warm 87 and WA412... One of my first comparison tests will be with female vocals (when I can catch my elusive vocalist... Should be interesting... GS contest? That's awesome man. You are in for a treat.
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Post by kevinnyc on Dec 20, 2016 14:54:57 GMT -6
Christmas came early for me... The only thing I've ever won was a jar of candy corn when I was ten...so, I was quite surprised... Haven't had any time yet other than to plug in the mic and a bass and fiddle for a couple of minutes... I'm already pleased...as a disciple worshipping at the altar of Jeff Steiger the WA412 helps fortify my API-ish front end. Really like the features on the WA412...not used to having meters on pres....(it's interesting that my active jazz bass clone clips the pre on minimal settings....I guess the nordstrand/Aguilar combo is that beefy). The tone button is fantastic....everything just comes alive...I expect I'll overuse it I already want another WA87 for stereo stuff...I'm going to get a lot of mileage here....however close it sounds to the U87ai...
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 20, 2016 17:25:15 GMT -6
Fantastic luck kevin, it's great that one of our own here won. I'd really love to hear more of your impressions when comparing the WARM to the Neumann.
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 20, 2016 18:04:25 GMT -6
Getting 2 wa87s was a stretch here, but it just felt like the right thing to do
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 20, 2016 21:14:21 GMT -6
I bet they'll be really good and versatile.
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Post by ericn on Dec 20, 2016 21:50:37 GMT -6
Christmas came early for me... The only thing I've ever won was a jar of candy corn when I was ten...so, I was quite surprised... Haven't had any time yet other than to plug in the mic and a bass and fiddle for a couple of minutes... I'm already pleased...as a disciple worshipping at the altar of Jeff Steiger the WA412 helps fortify my API-ish front end. Really like the features on the WA412...not used to having meters on pres....(it's interesting that my active jazz bass clone clips the pre on minimal settings....I guess the nordstrand/Aguilar combo is that beefy). The tone button is fantastic....everything just comes alive...I expect I'll overuse it I already want another WA87 for stereo stuff...I'm going to get a lot of mileage here....however close it sounds to the U87ai... Wonder how the 412 would sound with some of Ed Andersons iron and some SLL Red dots!
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Post by kevinnyc on Dec 21, 2016 1:43:05 GMT -6
Warm was smart in socketing the op amps....I have some red dots I'll pop in there for good measure...
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 21, 2016 4:56:34 GMT -6
Could you post a before and after clip ?
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Post by illacov on Dec 21, 2016 7:50:55 GMT -6
Christmas came early for me... The only thing I've ever won was a jar of candy corn when I was ten...so, I was quite surprised... Haven't had any time yet other than to plug in the mic and a bass and fiddle for a couple of minutes... I'm already pleased...as a disciple worshipping at the altar of Jeff Steiger the WA412 helps fortify my API-ish front end. Really like the features on the WA412...not used to having meters on pres....(it's interesting that my active jazz bass clone clips the pre on minimal settings....I guess the nordstrand/Aguilar combo is that beefy). The tone button is fantastic....everything just comes alive...I expect I'll overuse it I already want another WA87 for stereo stuff...I'm going to get a lot of mileage here....however close it sounds to the U87ai... Wonder how the 412 would sound with some of Ed Andersons iron and some SLL Red dots! Altran is supplying the iron for the 412. Ed Anderson has Altran make (at least some of) his transformers, at least the ones I've used including the Neve transformers (1073) and Reichenbach transformers (1176) he had them make, which were excellent btw. Is CAPI using Altran or Ed Anderson designed iron? Just figured I'd point that out. I have no idea how they would compare to Ed's work especially if he purpose built his own transformers to his spec, Warm needs to chime in regarding that. But they are in the same family thats for certain Thanks -L.
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Post by stratboy on Dec 21, 2016 9:55:42 GMT -6
hmm cheap mikes, $600 usd is over a grand Cdn, I don't call that cheap I have a few of the Advanced Audio Mics and frankly they are very good, especially for what they cost. I have a CM-48SE that I really like. I use it in U-47fet type applications like bass amp and kick. It works really well. I've also used it for voice on a track or two for a particular sound. Not for most voices however. The folks st Advanced Audio are great to work with.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 21, 2016 9:56:39 GMT -6
Wonder how the 412 would sound with some of Ed Andersons iron and some SLL Red dots! Altran is supplying the iron for the 412. Ed Anderson has Altran make (at least some of) his transformers, at least the ones I've used including the Neve transformers (1073) and Reichenbach transformers (1176) he had them make, which were excellent btw. Is CAPI using Altran or Ed Anderson designed iron? Just figured I'd point that out. I have no idea how they would compare to Ed's work especially if he purpose built his own transformers to his spec, Warm needs to chime in regarding that. But they are in the same family thats for certain Thanks -L. CA, CAPI uses Mostly Eds Iron, yeah Ed uses Altran, but as we all know it's not the sticker that says who made it, it's everything else that counts! I am a huge fan and defender of Altran as an OEM, and I am growing to like their off the shelf stuff more and more. Love Bryce and his products as well, but they are price point pieces. The thing about Ed's iron is unlike most he hasn't tried to improve the old API iron. Ed and Jeff unlike almost everybody else hold the sonic side of OLD API as the reference, but they also understand the reality and while that sonic magic rests on a pedestal, they understand that the heart and sole of that sound as we know it are the results of Sal Walker making some buissnes decisions to like using what at the time most would of classified as using a piece of crap OEM Transformer, but it is as much what the Transformer did wrong as what it did right! Jeff and I have talked about this in the past but Larry has done a great job of creating the illusion of creating this great lore around much of what we think of as API being created by API, but the true Genius of Sal was using what was out there ! I mean dose anybody really believe that in the 70's a small audio manufacturer designed and had manufacturers it's own knobs? I bet the real story was somebody at Vermaline cut old Sal a deal on a bunch of knobs no body would buy and after that first run everybody knew those knobs !
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Post by cdkelly on Dec 21, 2016 15:03:42 GMT -6
Christmas came early for me... The only thing I've ever won was a jar of candy corn when I was ten...so, I was quite surprised... Haven't had any time yet other than to plug in the mic and a bass and fiddle for a couple of minutes... I'm already pleased...as a disciple worshipping at the altar of Jeff Steiger the WA412 helps fortify my API-ish front end. Really like the features on the WA412...not used to having meters on pres....(it's interesting that my active jazz bass clone clips the pre on minimal settings....I guess the nordstrand/Aguilar combo is that beefy). The tone button is fantastic....everything just comes alive...I expect I'll overuse it I already want another WA87 for stereo stuff...I'm going to get a lot of mileage here....however close it sounds to the U87ai... Wonder how the 412 would sound with some of Ed Andersons iron and some SLL Red dots! Well, possibly almost no different at all; but it would be interesting to know. We developed the input and output transformers with Altran specifically because they were known to us for having done some really good vintage API reproduction parts already for small manufacturers like Ed and people doing vintage console restoration, short run products, etc. Ours are made with the same quality and winding methods applied; though we did a couple things differently. We chose the input winding ratio of the newer generation API (1:10); where the vintage parts, I think, are 1:8. In reality, this is very minor. The traditional API output transformer, which was called the CMOQ style part when Cinemag made it, can be wired 1:1, 1:2, or 1:3. I believe the Ed parts retain that flexibility. It's rare to use the last set of secondary windings if you're not driving the VU circuit of a legacy console, so this is where we took some creative liberty. We have ours fixed at 1:2 (the API norm) and used the freed up space on the bobbin to slightly increase the windings/inductance to give it just a tiny bit more extended low end reach than the traditional part... creative liberty, but it worked out nice. So I don't think there's much advantage to taking out our transformers, and would be a lot of work also. Our X520 is based on an earlier API 2520 op-amp. My understanding is that Scott's red dot is as well, while his blue dot is a newer/cleaner 2520. They're not built exactly the same, we didn't use any SMT on ours I know; but if I had to guess, they are probably within a close ball park to one another. For a bigger difference in tone or more bang for your $$, you might instead experiment with his blue dot or a Melcor 1731 rather than put something in that may be pretty close to what's already there. At any rate, best of luck and congrats to the lucky winner! -Chad/Warm
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 21, 2016 16:20:45 GMT -6
Hey Chad, welcome aboard!
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Post by cdkelly on Dec 21, 2016 16:28:19 GMT -6
thank you sir!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2016 16:44:07 GMT -6
nice to get a warm reception
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Post by ericn on Dec 21, 2016 17:53:45 GMT -6
Wonder how the 412 would sound with some of Ed Andersons iron and some SLL Red dots! Well, possibly almost no different at all; but it would be interesting to know. We developed the input and output transformers with Altran specifically because they were known to us for having done some really good vintage API reproduction parts already for small manufacturers like Ed and people doing vintage console restoration, short run products, etc. Ours are made with the same quality and winding methods applied; though we did a couple things differently. We chose the input winding ratio of the newer generation API (1:10); where the vintage parts, I think, are 1:8. In reality, this is very minor. The traditional API output transformer, which was called the CMOQ style part when Cinemag made it, can be wired 1:1, 1:2, or 1:3. I believe the Ed parts retain that flexibility. It's rare to use the last set of windings if you're not driving the VU circuit of a legacy console, so this is where we took some creative liberty. We have ours fixed at 1:2 (the API norm) and used the freed up space on the bobbin to slightly increase the windings/inductance to give it just a tiny bit more extended low end reach than the traditional part... creative liberty, but it worked out nice. So I don't think there's much advantage to taking out our transformers, and would be a lot of work also. Our X520 is based on an earlier API 2520 op-amp. My understanding is that Scott's red dot is as well, while his blue dot is a newer/cleaner 2520. They're not built exactly the same, we didn't use any SMT on ours I know; but if I had to guess, they are probably within a close ball park to one another. For a bigger difference in tone or more bang for your $$, you might instead experiment with his blue dot or a Melcor 1731 rather than put something in that may be pretty close to what's already there. At any rate, best of luck and congrats to the lucky winner! -Chad/Warm I'm sure the 412 sounds great as is, but the great thing about API type of pre is the fact you can play around a bit, plus at this price point you know their are going to be guys who are going to mod it! Some simply because they can & others, well let's just say they prefer a slightly different spice balance instead of the perfectly good Warm flavor. The fact that there is an affordable piece as a starting point, that they can experiment with is great for all of us, hell I know guys who have done the same API 3124's who wish the 412 existed years ago! Love Warm I was crying when I had to sell my Purple MC76's to pay some bills knowing I ll probably never find another pair, BUT I was dancing like a fool when I plugged my WA76 in and realized I would be able to buy 4 for less than I sold the pair for ! I see a Rack dominated by Warm in my future full of more LA2, 76 and pultecish channels than I dreamed of only a couple of years ago! My vote for next Warm gear? Sta-Warm, API 7600/8200/7800 type summing system, one could afford a Warm 7600/8200 1604 console and if they wanted to tune to taste like many are doing to their much more expensive API 1608's! I say welcome the modders, the guys who paid big bucks for Genuine Modern API & are modding it to get the sound of the old ones are the people who should feel slighted! Heck if I bought a New Porsche GT3R I'd still send it to Kelley Moss!
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 21, 2016 18:22:37 GMT -6
When I put the John Hardy 990 Opamp in my Tonebeast, it sounded different, more Hi-Fi, but was never quite as clean as the opamp it came with. So, it was fun to try. It wasn't very expensive, but it sure wasn't different enough to make me say "wow", just "hmm.. that's kinda good but" ..
I can dig the modding thing, but I usually find if I don't like a thing from the start, I'm usually chasing my own tail with mods. I went through 4 capsules on the Blackspade mic I sold, each was different, each had it's merits, but ultimately, I figured out the hard way that I preferred a K67 style capsules for my voice over the M7 style.
So, each mod was a valuable learning experience, but kind of a hassle. If I'd simply started with the right mic, I wouldn't have wasted my time searching, and waiting, testing and changing something again, I'd have just gotten busy tracking.
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Post by ragan on Dec 21, 2016 18:40:48 GMT -6
I've become a pretty die hard Warm Audio fan. I've just had so many pieces from them now and they've always delivered the goods. The latest is a WA-2a and it's just lovely.
I'll be buying a WA-412 as soon as I can. To the modders out there, sure, knock yourselves out if that's your thing. But make no mistake this stuff comes stock ready to play in the big boy league.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 21, 2016 18:51:06 GMT -6
Warm has enabled me to get in the ballpark of sound I wanted, but couldn't afford otherwise. Every piece they've made can stand on its own, even if an update of a classic design and not exactly identical. I've yet to hear any two vintage anything sound the same anyway.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 21, 2016 19:09:38 GMT -6
I've ordered my patchcables, And checked my list twice Booked a cool drummer, who plays naughty and nice My Warm gear is coming to town!
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Post by EmRR on Dec 21, 2016 19:27:26 GMT -6
I mean does anybody really believe that in the 70's a small audio manufacturer designed and had manufacturers it's own knobs? I bet the real story was somebody at Vermaline cut old Sal a deal on a bunch of knobs no body would buy and after that first run everybody knew those knobs ! This. Is. The. Truth. Same reason Spectra Sonics used them....those...the same ones.....
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Post by ericn on Dec 21, 2016 19:46:19 GMT -6
I mean does anybody really believe that in the 70's a small audio manufacturer designed and had manufacturers it's own knobs? I bet the real story was somebody at Vermaline cut old Sal a deal on a bunch of knobs no body would buy and after that first run everybody knew those knobs ! This. Is. The. Truth. Same reason Spectra Sonics used them....those...the same ones..... Yep a guy and I were half joking of doing a run of plastic Ones on a 3D printer to give our boards the "API look"😎
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Post by EmRR on Dec 21, 2016 19:47:44 GMT -6
There's already a Russian guy making cast knock-offs.....
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