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Post by Vincent R. on Feb 2, 2017 20:58:04 GMT -6
WA87, P87, and a U87AI. I have to email them for the results. Interesting either way.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 2, 2017 22:28:19 GMT -6
Good post Vincent. Please let us know which is which. I'll listen on my monitors tomorrow, it doesn't sound great on my computer.
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Post by Vincent R. on Feb 2, 2017 22:48:29 GMT -6
Good post Vincent. Please let us know which is which. I'll listen on my monitors tomorrow, it doesn't sound great on my computer. Soon as I hear back I'll post it.
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Post by Vincent R. on Feb 3, 2017 10:08:17 GMT -6
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 3, 2017 10:47:49 GMT -6
Wow. I picked either 1 or 3 last night on headphones. Today, on my monitors, I was leaning toward 3, but felt I'd need them both to compare, because A might fare better with a little EQ, and C might need a little subtractive EQ. My guess would be it's easier to EQ the Warm to add a pinch of brightness, but adjusting the brightness of the Neumann might be more difficult. The Peluso was damn good too.
That's a great shootout because it shows just how close they were and yet you can clearly hear the differences. When I tested the U87AI briefly in the mc room of B&H here in NYC, I had the same impression, first, wow, that's a U87 alright, frickin' HUGE, but my second thought was it's a bit bright, and would I have issues taming it, because it might get annoying after a while. You gotta hand it to Warm, at $600 compared to $3,300 or $2,500 used for the AI, it's amazing.
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 3, 2017 11:17:03 GMT -6
This is interesting as it is the second time I have heard the wa87 vs a real 87 and in both instances I thought like Martin, at first, I preferred what turned out to be the real 87 but then as I listened more I preferred what turned out to be the wa87.
I find this consistent with what we know about how Bryce voiced the mike/capsule of the wa87 going for the original sound.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Feb 3, 2017 11:33:01 GMT -6
I also felt the Warm was the star of this shoot out, but 2 things bogged the crap out of me, first the spoken word part needs a dessert and made me want to grab the EQ to make it tolerable. Second in the mix the Warm had way to much reverb compared to the other 2!
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Post by mdmitch2 on Feb 3, 2017 11:37:19 GMT -6
Interesting comparison, and the Warm seems the darkest up top, followed by the Neumann, then Peluso. But he's like 2 ft off the mic in a highly reflective room. So I'm not sure this is the best way to compare these mics...
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Post by jcoutu1 on Feb 3, 2017 11:37:30 GMT -6
I don't care for the vocals here, but the Warm and 87 both sounded very good on the guitar. I slightly preferred the 87, but I'm a fan of top. The P was lacking in the mids for me. Looking forward to these WA87's hitting the used market.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 3, 2017 12:06:53 GMT -6
I have a love/hate thing with microphones with good and present high ends. I love the intimacy and the low level details that come with them, but found it was difficult to tame the louder edgier parts, which were a little brittle. Now that I have the WA2A and the WA76, maybe I can find a setting that helps with that.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Feb 3, 2017 12:55:30 GMT -6
I don't care for the vocals here, but the Warm and 87 both sounded very good on the guitar. I slightly preferred the 87, but I'm a fan of top. The P was lacking in the mids for me. Looking forward to these WA87's hitting the used market. Yeah I wouldn't have reached for an 87ish mic and a HV3 for that Vocal!
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Post by Guitar on Feb 3, 2017 13:01:06 GMT -6
The thing that stood out to me the most in that video is how much I do not like the Peluso. It just sounds boxy or something, not big and open.
Also agree with Jcoutu, and the one that made a somewhat poor singer sound the most spectacular seemed to still be the U87 to me. It just has this big vibe about it.
The Warm in particular is incredible for that kind of price. It was a little too bright on the voice in their "mix" part but otherwise very believable.
Really made the Peluso look kind of bad to me. I can only imagine what might happen to the value proposition once the WA-87 start populating eBay auctions. I might even consider one.
I wonder if Warm is cooking up a tube mic or two.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 3, 2017 13:01:46 GMT -6
Yeah, that vocal was kinda scary.
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Post by aamicrophones on Feb 3, 2017 14:14:32 GMT -6
This is interesting as it is the second time I have heard the wa87 vs a real 87 and in both instances I thought like Martin, at first, I preferred what turned out to be the real 87 but then as I listened more I preferred what turned out to be the wa87. I find this consistent with what we know about how Bryce voiced the mike/capsule of the wa87 going for the original sound. Hi Martin, the original U87 which Bryce went after is not as bright as the new U87AI. When Neumann brought out the U87AI in 1988 they increased the capsule polarization voltage which increases the output from the capsule and the capsule response also gets a little brighter as the polarization voltage increases. The U87AI also has more even order harmonic distortion as the single fet circuit is pushed further. Thankfully, FET circuits act more like a tube circuit and produce more musical 2nd harmonic distortion. The WA87 sounded to me pretty representative of original U87's made before 1988. The WA87 sounds pretty representative of the original ones that come across my workbench with "working" capsules. The original U87 also had a 50 ohm and a 200 ohm transformer winding option while the U87AI is fixed at 200 ohms. I have friend with a pair of original U87 microphones he has used for years. He prefers them set to 50 ohms which gives him less output and he believes they sound better for his use not driving his preamps as hard. He has an old 600 series MCI console. I think the Bryce U87 is right in the ball park. We had two original U87's and 3-U87AI's during my tenure at Ocean Sound in Vancouver. The U47's where the goto vocal microphone, then the 414eb's, then the Sony C37a microphones and then the U87 and the U87ai last. The U87's were first call on voice over and voice actor work. Cheers, Dave Thomas aamicrophones.com
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Feb 3, 2017 14:19:24 GMT -6
This is interesting as it is the second time I have heard the wa87 vs a real 87 and in both instances I thought like Martin, at first, I preferred what turned out to be the real 87 but then as I listened more I preferred what turned out to be the wa87. I find this consistent with what we know about how Bryce voiced the mike/capsule of the wa87 going for the original sound. Hi Martin, the original U87 which Bryce went after is not as bright as the new U87AI. When Neumann brought out the U87AI in 1988 they increased the capsule polarization voltage which increases the output from the capsule and the capsule response also gets a little brighter as the polarization voltage increases. The U87AI also has more even order harmonic distortion as the single fet circuit is pushed further. Thankfully, FET circuits act more like a tube circuit and produce more musical 2nd harmonic distortion. The WA87 sounded to me pretty representative of original U87's made before 1988. The WA87 sounds pretty representative of the original ones that come across my workbench with "working" capsules. The original U87 also had a 50 ohm and a 200 ohm transformer winding option while the U87AI is fixed at 200 ohms. I have friend with a pair of original U87 microphones he has used for years. He prefers them set to 50 ohms which gives him less output and he believes they sound better for his use not driving his preamps as hard. He has an old 600 series MCI console. I think the Bryce U87 is right in the ball park. We had two original U87's and 3-U87AI's during my tenure at Ocean Sound in Vancouver. The U47's where the goto vocal microphone, then the 414eb's, then the Sony C37a microphones and then the U87 and the U87ai last. The U87's were first call on voice over and voice actor work. Cheers, Dave Thomas aamicrophones.com Never a fan of the 87ai, but it's the one mic I can put in front of somebody and know in 2 min what mic will actually work,😁
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Post by aamicrophones on Feb 3, 2017 14:38:11 GMT -6
I have a neighbour who sings country as a single act and had never been in a studio before. I told him I would record a wedding song he wrote for a friend. No, matter which microphone I put up there was "piles" of 6khz. At first i thought the 1073 clone I had just built failed.
My CM67se seemed to work the best but I still had to pull 6khz out of the track in the mix which I cannot remember ever doing before. Finally, I went out a listened to him sing from about a 2-3 feet away and all that 6khz was coming from him. I finally figured out he had played a lot of single gigs without any sound system and had learned to sing with a real "edge" in his voice to get the vocals to cut through without a microphone. The microphones were just capturing what was present in his vocals.
So, back to basics always go and listen to the source with your own ears before choosing a microphone. I am sure Tom Dowd would have given my neighbour a few singing pointers before starting the recording session.
Cheers, Dave aamicrophones.com
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Post by wiz on Feb 3, 2017 14:39:33 GMT -6
I thought C was the stand out by a fair margin.
It has more reach, in terms of what it captures....
It always such a surprise how everyone hears everything different. If i had to mix this song, I would pick the C tracks in a heart beat...
No doubt all the mics are good, but there is always something that is "right" with neumann 87s for me.
cheers
Wiz
PS thanks for posting
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 3, 2017 14:47:17 GMT -6
Thanks Dave, that was fun to know about. I had a U87 I used every day for at least ten years. It was made in 1980. I sold it, but I know the "vintage" U87 sound in my bones. I'll know where the WA87 stands in comparison when I hear it, but for sure, Bryce has managed the nearly impossible in getting so close to a U87 sound that you might find it fits right in if you had 3 or 4 Neumann U87's to compare to.
I'll get one in a couple of month. I gotta pay of my WA2A first :-)
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 3, 2017 14:51:14 GMT -6
but you have one so are wired to prefer it
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Post by wiz on Feb 3, 2017 15:02:51 GMT -6
but you have one so are wired to prefer it I know you are joking, but I actually considered not posting my thoughts.... so as to not be "That Guy". You guys know me, I am pretty level headed and moderate, i think, but maybe I am not, maybe I am an asshole and don't know it... LOL 8). These things always come with "internet emptor" ... I am sure you can make great music with any of the three... but honestly...I am surprised that people when they listen to those clips, hear them A and C being close.... As I said its always suprising to hear others thoughts... What is important to one set of sunglasses holder upperers.... is not the same for someone else. If all you can afford is 599 USD the decision is made.... I really don't want to be "that guy".. so I won't say anymore other than I hope all three companies do great...hope the WA87s fly off the shelves and people make great music and have a blast... peace love and mung bean rissoles. cheers Wiz
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Post by ragan on Feb 3, 2017 15:20:14 GMT -6
but you have one so are wired to prefer it I know you are joking, but I actually considered not posting my thoughts.... so as to not be "That Guy". You guys know me, I am pretty level headed and moderate, i think, but maybe I am not, maybe I am an asshole and don't know it... LOL 8). These things always come with "internet emptor" ... I am sure you can make great music with any of the three... but honestly...I am surprised that people when they listen to those clips, hear them A and C being close.... As I said its always suprising to hear others thoughts... What is important to one set of sunglasses holder upperers.... is not the same for someone else. If all you can afford is 599 USD the decision is made.... I really don't want to be "that guy".. so I won't say anymore other than I hope all three companies do great...hope the WA87s fly off the shelves and people make great music and have a blast... peace love and mung bean rissoles. cheers Wiz I've never met you in person and we live worlds apart but I feel like I can confidently say that you are not an asshole.
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 3, 2017 15:31:44 GMT -6
Of course Wiz, I was just razzing you but I actually meant that respectfully cus we all know you have bought good gear carefully and that you use what works for you . So, your comment made sense to me in that you know why you bought your current 87 and you are very familiar with its sound and what you like about it, so you are wired to easily identify , almost unconsciously those same/similar characteristics in another good 87. For me, this whole comparison thing is a complete non issue, couldn't care less. I trust Bryce to bring a very good sounding and good value product to the market and I was paying $599 usd not $2,500-3,000! I am very pleased with my 2 wa87 and the wa412 and how they work together, 2 good mikes and 4 pres for about the price of one real 87. I genuinely hope one day to buy a real 87 and to apply myself diligently to acquiring Peter's subconscious acoustic acumen: 87 shades of sonic nuance
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Post by wiz on Feb 3, 2017 15:57:38 GMT -6
All good...
I just wanted to add... something that can bite you on the ass with any microphone, is off axis colouration...
something that is never shown in shoot outs like this...
I learned this when I got my KM84.. that thing hears beautifully around itself.. so much so you can mic things and point it in directions you wouldnt think a cardoid mic could be pointed and get great sound.
cheers
Wiz
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Post by johneppstein on Feb 4, 2017 15:21:14 GMT -6
I also felt the Warm was the star of this shoot out, but 2 things bogged the crap out of me, first the spoken word part needs a dessert and made me want to grab the EQ to make it tolerable. Second in the mix the Warm had way to much reverb compared to the other 2! Needs a dessert? Ice cream or cake?
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Post by rocinante on Feb 4, 2017 15:25:05 GMT -6
I'd really like to hear a comparison between the warm wa87 and a microphone parts 87. Anyone own both?
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