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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 4, 2017 19:04:23 GMT -6
From Wiz:
"I guess the place I would use it... I might replace my KM184s on overheads with it.... thats what I guess I am most interested in, in reality....
cheers
Wiz"
ah , guess I shouldn't mention that my pair of wa87s are sequential: kind of sweet !
kcat
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 19:10:28 GMT -6
From Wiz: "I guess the place I would use it... I might replace my KM184s on overheads with it.... thats what I guess I am most interested in, in reality.... cheers Wiz" ah , guess I shouldn't mention that my pair of wa87s are sequential: kind of sweet ! kcat CLIPPS!.. I want CLIPPS!! MOAR Clips.. How does it sound on vox / bass / guitar / triangle / half triangle (or I.5angle) / pans / mallot's / 13th century castles and so on..? Vox and Geetar's will do if you don't have time for the rest ..
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Post by ragan on Jan 4, 2017 19:14:25 GMT -6
From Wiz: "I guess the place I would use it... I might replace my KM184s on overheads with it.... thats what I guess I am most interested in, in reality.... cheers Wiz" ah , guess I shouldn't mention that my pair of wa87s are sequential: kind of sweet ! kcat CLIPPS!.. I want CLIPPS!! MOAR Clips.. How does it sound on vox / bass / guitar / triangle / half triangle (or I.5angle) / pans / mallot's / 13th century castles and so on..? Vox and Geetar's will do if you don't have time for the rest .. I'm totally going to post some clips, I'm just swamped coming up to a deadline right now.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 4, 2017 21:25:37 GMT -6
Clips u say ?? here you go worts and all I just set up one 87 and grabbed my larrivee for a simple voice over and singer songwriter demo, switched in and out of the tone/impedance switch to show off the two voices of the pre (vintage and more modern ?), HPF on the mike and in cardioid , right into my BF apollo line 5 ,no fx, or gimmicks. I am super pleased. soundcloud.com/kcatthedog/warm-audio-test-wa-87-and-wa-412-preif you'd like the mp3 just pm your email. Like Ragan said,, now I want 2 more of the mikes and another 412
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 4, 2017 22:07:55 GMT -6
Sounded really good, now I'm full o'gas.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jan 5, 2017 0:00:19 GMT -6
kcatthedogOk so that vocal chain on your talking voice sounds f***ing great... even for the rough scratch takes this chain sounds damn good on you.... That 412 has some balls and girth, or is that the mic's character? How did you drive the 412 with gain staging? Can you please use the stock Apollo pre and record another take for comparison? Have you ever used the UAD unison equivalent to 312/ TB/ 412? That SoundCloud post sounds great, adding in your other analog HW will only provide more character and tonality to an already great sounding chain.. Congrats Thoughts: Wa87-> Wa412-> eqp-Wa --> Wa76 -> Wa2a = $4k chain and I bet it sounds damn good when gain staged accordingly, I want to hear this chain in action. I know the audio recorded from this chain will sound full of life and character that saturation and distortion plugins can't equal come mix time, Don't get me wrong, I love my SW, it's just different. Not to mention the way the HW helps and artist craft their performance. Mainly compression and verb, but the compression and tonality of driving each unit to THD and then backing down 1-2 clicks is like having a xtra colors in your palette other painters in your competition don't have. Plus if you can't get a high end recording out of that all Warm Audio chain then a $25,000 ( name drop fav chain here ) chain damn sure ain't gone turn diarrhea to diamonds... lol ... I would love to hear that Warm chain.. someone make it happen lol....
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 5, 2017 4:28:05 GMT -6
Thx guys. I'll post some more clips 2nite. I can do wa87,412,wa76,wa2a and had eqp-wa so can tell you they would impart a nice smooth glassy tone, like that gen of great strat pick ups. I had to sell my eqp-was in last year's cash crunch(drag), but do miss them. I have honestly had almost all warm gear and I feel the new mike and pre are their best products yet:both inspire confidence in use cus you feel they are sounding great and you hear that presence and tone. I say that for you pros out there, where sometimes the gear choice needs to be the silver bullet, if the talent is struggling. Last thought, at WARM microphone page they imply other mikes in dev:Bryce bring them frigging on !!
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 5, 2017 4:44:15 GMT -6
Ps settings on 412 were gain about 70 (so not really saturating the tranny) and output about 80 so starting to drive output tranny.
Your point about pallette is well taken:in use you can dail in signal with Mike orientation/proximity, pick pre tone/impedence (vintage/modern) and drive tranni i/o.
This much more apparent for me last night vs 2 years ago with my TB12. OK, I have 2 more years/ears of experience, but I think the wa87 mike is a big part of those sonic possibilities.
This other classic (?) mike sound was exactly what I wanted to compliment my diy c12 and mk-u47 tuby goodness.
I wasn't kidding when I said I'd like 2 more wa87 like immediately for drums ect.!
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Post by M57 on Jan 5, 2017 5:35:26 GMT -6
This much more apparent for me last night vs 2 years ago with my TB12. OK, I have 2 more years/ears of experience, but I think the wa87 mike is a big part of those sonic possibilities. So would you say that if you only ever needed one channel (for a vocal chain), the TB12 is just as good a choice as the WA-412, if not the better choice because of all of its flexibility?
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 5, 2017 6:55:39 GMT -6
I can't do a direct comparison now but if you only need 1 channel or that is your budget, I really liked the tb12's sound and versatility.
I never used it with the new wa87 so can't say how much of the perceived difference I heard last night was the mike's affect, as opposed to the pre, but obviously the pres have difference, op amp and transformer type being the most obvious.
If you want an affordable, versatile rack api style pre: hard to go wrong with the tb12 and you can grab them used for around $350 ish usd.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 11:31:07 GMT -6
Hey Ragan, How does the WA87 compare to the 3U Audio GZ67 and Warbler I?
I'm still leaning toward the prevailing theory that Guosheng had a hand in designing and/or building that capsule for Warm. If possible down the road when you get some time, could you, pretty please, post some pics of the internals?
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Post by ragan on Jan 5, 2017 11:40:04 GMT -6
The WA-87 is voiced like the Warbler MKID (U87 style) but has the better transformer like the GZ67Fet (Cinemag for the WA-87, AMI for the GZ67Fet). It really strikes me a lot like a GZ version of the Warbler MKID. I absolutely love my Warblers but you can hear the clarity you get from a nicer transformer when you listen to the GZ67Fet or the WA87. Of course, the WA-87 and GZ67Fet are both $599 and the Warbler MKID is $349 so that's a factor too. All of them are very nice mics, just depends on what voicing you're after and what your budget is.
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Post by ragan on Jan 5, 2017 12:05:51 GMT -6
One working example. I've recently begun a torrid love affair with this MaxMod 67. I'm tracking some organ right now and the Hammond (M-111) tone I'm using is already so mellow I'm using the WA-87 on it because it has more of that hi mid forward U87 voicing and it brings the mellow organ to life. Granted I could EQ the MaxMod 67 but the WA-87 already sounds perfect on it. I have a very bright voice so I don't love U87s on it but it's easy to see why this style of mic is such a workhorse. I think the WA-87 is a great option and like I said, I'd love to have about 4 of them.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 12:22:27 GMT -6
The WA-87 is voiced like the Warbler MKID (U87 style) but has the better transformer like the GZ67Fet (Cinemag for the WA-87, AMI for the GZ67Fet). It really strikes me a lot like a GZ version of the Warbler MKID. I absolutely love my Warblers but you can hear the clarity you get from a nicer transformer when you listen to the GZ67Fet or the WA87. Of course, the WA-87 and GZ67Fet are both $599 and the Warbler MKID is $349 so that's a factor too. All of them are very nice mics, just depends on what voicing you're after and what your budget is. Cool. Hmmm... Now, I'm kinda dying to know if you really could match that sound with a Warbler I upgraded with a CM-2480 traffo. If it's that close, then I'm even more convinced this is Guosheng's capsule design... which, IMHO, is a very good thing.
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Post by rocinante on Jan 5, 2017 12:27:57 GMT -6
One working example. I've recently begun a torrid love affair with this MaxMod 67. I'm tracking some organ right now and the Hammond (M-111) tone I'm using is already so mellow I'm using the WA-87 on it because it has more of that hi mid forward U87 voicing and it brings the mellow organ to life. Granted I could EQ the MaxMod 67 but the WA-87 already sounds perfect on it. I have a very bright voice so I don't love U87s on it but it's easy to see why this style of mic is such a workhorse. I think the WA-87 is a great option and like I said, I'd love to have about 4 of them. Enough said.
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Post by rocinante on Jan 5, 2017 12:31:45 GMT -6
The WA-87 is voiced like the Warbler MKID (U87 style) but has the better transformer like the GZ67Fet (Cinemag for the WA-87, AMI for the GZ67Fet). It really strikes me a lot like a GZ version of the Warbler MKID. I absolutely love my Warblers but you can hear the clarity you get from a nicer transformer when you listen to the GZ67Fet or the WA87. Of course, the WA-87 and GZ67Fet are both $599 and the Warbler MKID is $349 so that's a factor too. All of them are very nice mics, just depends on what voicing you're after and what your budget is. Cool. Hmmm... Now, I'm kinda dying to know if you really could match that sound with a Warbler I upgraded with a CM-2480 traffo. If it's that close, then I'm even more convinced this is Guosheng's capsule design... which, IMHO, is a very good thing. That's a tricky one. Biasing the fet and its relationship to the transformer is gonna make a big difference in how the 87 operates. I'm curious how much.
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Post by M57 on Jan 6, 2017 6:20:41 GMT -6
The WA-87 is voiced like the Warbler MKID (U87 style) but has the better transformer like the GZ67Fet (Cinemag for the WA-87, AMI for the GZ67Fet). It really strikes me a lot like a GZ version of the Warbler MKID. I absolutely love my Warblers but you can hear the clarity you get from a nicer transformer when you listen to the GZ67Fet or the WA87. Of course, the WA-87 and GZ67Fet are both $599 and the Warbler MKID is $349 so that's a factor too. All of them are very nice mics, just depends on what voicing you're after and what your budget is. Kind of an OTB thought, but might it be possible to stuff a transformer in the MKID? Is that a potential mod?
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 6, 2017 8:45:40 GMT -6
Well, I heard an acoustic guitar track of kcat's, and it definitely reminded me of an 87. I used a Neumann U87 every day for a decade, so I'm more familiar with the sound of a U87 than anything else in the music production universe. Of course, it'll be fun to hear the WA87 and a U87 side by side. Also, I've yet to hear two of the same mics sound the same. Take a Neumann U87 made in 1979 and one in 1984, will they sound the same, probably not. My point, even comparing a clone to the real thing has factors that can affect our impressions. So, being extremely familiar with a U87, I'll know in a heartbeat if the WA87 is "right" or not. So far, it seems impressive, but the jury is still out, as it's new.
I get a little wary of statements made saying something doesn't sound like the original, without more info regarding the poster's experience. I'm not saying people shouldn't relate their honest assessment of something, but it would be good to know where they're coming from. Some guys here have used twenty different U47's and some guys never used a real one, so their opinion has different weight regarding authenticity.
What I find interesting is the potential a smart designer has when building something with parts made in different places. I'm not sure of the origin of every part in the WA87, although I know Bryce typically selects parts from the USA and other locations. Sooner or later, one of these clones or "in the style of" products is gonna equal or better the real thing. Warm Audio has established a reputation for reliability and great customer support, so it wouldn't surprise me at all if they knock one out of the park.
I'm looking forward to trying the WA87 for myself soon.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 6, 2017 9:11:43 GMT -6
here's a direct u87 wa87 shootout:
I honestly don't care about this question I just wanted a good sounding mike that I could afford that was in this style, so I am super pleased with the wa87 and 412.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 6, 2017 9:13:43 GMT -6
surprised they have them side by side as one is closer to the sound hole and the other the neck ?
I would have placed them in line vertically and splitting the centre aim at the guitar neck (same)position ?
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Post by ragan on Jan 6, 2017 9:49:52 GMT -6
The WA-87 is voiced like the Warbler MKID (U87 style) but has the better transformer like the GZ67Fet (Cinemag for the WA-87, AMI for the GZ67Fet). It really strikes me a lot like a GZ version of the Warbler MKID. I absolutely love my Warblers but you can hear the clarity you get from a nicer transformer when you listen to the GZ67Fet or the WA87. Of course, the WA-87 and GZ67Fet are both $599 and the Warbler MKID is $349 so that's a factor too. All of them are very nice mics, just depends on what voicing you're after and what your budget is. Kind of an OTB thought, but might it be possible to stuff a transformer in the MKID? Is that a potential mod? The MKID already has a transformer FYI.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 6, 2017 10:13:37 GMT -6
here's a direct u87 wa87 shootout:
I honestly don't care about this question I just wanted a good sounding mike that I could afford that was in this style, so I am super pleased with the wa87 and 412.
WA sounds a little congested here. Like mentioned though, placement could be a factor.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2017 10:32:48 GMT -6
Sounded really good, now I'm full o'gas. Go to the loo, then buy two...
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 6, 2017 11:03:27 GMT -6
ya warm sounds a little warmer meaning that bass boost and the neumann seems to have a little more air : really think this is because of how they were placed. they could have at least rerecorded the same tracks and reversed their positions ?
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Post by Ward on Jan 6, 2017 11:09:27 GMT -6
kcatthedog Just when I thought nothing could out-midrange a U87! Well, I was wrong... JMHO... The U87 makes the guitar sound like it is strung with Martin Phosphor Bronze strings. The WA87 makes the guitar sound like it is strung with Elixirs.
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