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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 14, 2013 20:12:14 GMT -6
on "albums"... variety.com/2013/biz/news/katy-perrys-prism-a-good-example-of-how-albums-dont-work-anymore-1200824933/Media cannot be limited to the album release date. It must be a 24/7, 365-day-a-year effort Bob Lefsetz @lefsetz The album is dying in front of our very eyes. SEE MORE: From the November 12, 2013 issue of Variety In other words, what kind of screwed up world do we live in where Katy Perry’s new album “Prism” sells only 287,000 copies in its debut? One in which everybody’s interested in the single, and no one’s got time to sit and hear your hour-plus statement. This is not emotion, this is statistics. The shelf life of news is shorter than ever. The shelf life of art. … You blink and it’s done. I’m fine with you preaching to the choir, making an album for your fans. You gotta go where you wanna go, do what you wanna do. But if your plan is to increase your audience, spread the word and make money, suddenly the album just isn’t working anymore. The youngsters are streaming singles and the oldsters are staying home. How do I know? Elton’s album isn’t even in the top 50, and McCartney’s album barely broke 20,000 this week, and there wasn’t a better oldster hype than for these two projects. People just don’t want ’em. So what’s the industry to do? Have a rethink. In other words, hype doesn’t work. No one had more hype than Miley Cyrus, but “Bangerz” didn’t even sell 45,000 copies in its fourth week of release. She can go on “SNL,” tweet her life away, but it’s not moving the needle. Lorde is selling as much as Miley without the benefit of scorched earth, proving quality music is as good as hype. But Lorde isn’t burning up the chart either. We’ve turned into a nation of grazers. And the artist’s job is to constantly be at the smorgasbord. Not to deliver one big meal that is picked at and thrown away, but to constantly provide tantalizing bites to the public. Media cannot be limited to the album release date. It must be a 24/7, 365-day-a-year effort. Same with creativity. If your track gets traction, more power to you. If it doesn’t, go back in the studio and make more. In other words, if you’re sitting at home bitching that you’re not making any money because the Internet stole your business, you’re RIGHT! There are so many diversions that no one’s got time for mediocre anymore. If you’ve got a concept album, go ahead and record it. If you’re only interested in selling a little, be my guest. But if you want to penetrate the consciousness of a large group of people and grow the pie, an album isn’t working. Hell, it’s not even working as a revenue model! Labels are no longer in the record business, they’re in the star business. How to maximize the revenue of an individual or band in as many media as possible, in as many ways as possible. Yes, while you were bitching about piracy, your whole business model disappeared. You put out these albums, and in almost every case, the public moves on in a matter of WEEKS. A few bought it, they heard it, and they’re satisfied — and left waiting for years until you grace them with a new release. The rest of the public is just waiting for a hit single to burble, and if it does, they’ll tap their toes and snap their fi ngers and ask, “WHAT ELSE HAVE YOU GOT?” And what you’ve got had better be just as good as the hit. No one wants album tracks anymore unless they’re every bit as satisfying as the hit. So it’s not only classic rock acts who have stopped putting out albums; eventually, no one will do it. Oh, it won’t be soon, because artists think making albums is part of their DNA, going into the studio and making a 10-track statement. But that’s like saying typewriters have to be an office fixture. And you can’t post online unless you write in multiple paragraphs. And texting must be abandoned because it’s not in-depth enough. The goal of a musician is to be AHEAD of the audience. Right now everybody’s behind. |
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Post by popmann on Nov 14, 2013 20:49:26 GMT -6
Said it before...say it again...I'll never make another album in my life. Why? It was always a horrible construct for me. My creativity comes in bursts of a handful of songs. Also, cutting a single--similar production time/costs as a "side" (3-5 songs)...in terms of cutting basics, where it matters. And musicians who I play with? Can live with a demo of 3-5 songs for a week...show up to the gig and be full of ideas--at least remember how they go. Make that a 14 song "album"? They're gonna rely on my (or their) charts 99%.
My theory on vinyl fans is there's a LOT of it that's a 20min song cycle. I know that's the appeal for me--I mostly dislike the sound, and find the ritual (pulling /cleaning/playing) horribly tedious--but, how many times do you put i na CD, and have a complete 20min song cycle and turn it off (or keep going--but, there's a conscious choice).
As a fan of artists, I find I never listen to singles. I buy....I listen once....twice...done...maybe they come up occasionally in shuffle. And you know how many tracks 6-14 on albums I LIKE I"m not that familiar with? Lots. Single songs are nothing but an add for me....but, at the same time, what an album has become (11-16 songs)--is too much to absorb if you're a fan of more than like two artists. And, I'm old....with YEARS of collected fandom.
Don't get me started on how the most talented i nthe biz can't seem to string together more than two "modern albums" worth a piss before starting to put out filler. I'm not gonna name names...I'm just saying--that Jackson Browne said once it takes him 6 years to come up with 10 songs he likes...another one of my faves, Sarah McLachlan, averages about the same in between records. Anyway, would we rather these folks spread those ten songs over 6 albums with a bunch of bSide filler? Would we still think they were that great?
Right now, I'm answering the question for myself as an artist--"Can I keep up?". Can get a 5 song cycle every 6-9 months that I'm proud to call "mine"? If I can't...game over for me on that front. Back to finding something else to do for a living. Right now, as an indie there's possibility to create a small fanbase and sell to them--but, when you release an album every five years...that fanbase has to change too much...people forget...artists move too far from where they were last time around and alienate the audience...
Anyway--all "sides" from here on out for me. 3-5 songs. 15-25min. I'm OK with that. If it comes down to singles, we've lost something important as musical artists. But, there are next to no 60min pop.rock song cycles worth listening to start to finish--so why package them that way?
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Post by Martin John Butler on Nov 14, 2013 22:45:22 GMT -6
I'm thinking on this, thanks for posting John. Good post Popmann, I need to re-think my own strategy too, and thinking I have to produce an "album" has been holding me back.
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Post by scumbum on Nov 14, 2013 23:02:00 GMT -6
Thats crazy Elton and Paul are not selling many albums , its VERY weird today .
I've been thinking for awhile that instead of releasing an album , release a new song once a month . Maybe go record an album , 12 songs , but through your band website release a new song on the first day of every month . That way it keeps traffic going there and you stay fresh in the audiences mind .
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Post by scumbum on Nov 14, 2013 23:05:47 GMT -6
I'm thinking on this, thanks for posting John. Good post Popmann, I need to re-think my own strategy too, and thinking I have to produce an "album" has been holding me back. I think youtube is pretty much todays MTV . Instead of focusing on an Album , I think focusing on making videos for your best songs and getting those videos up on youtube is the best exposure today . Nobody buys CD's anymore , but they all watch youtube . |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2013 20:07:15 GMT -6
How sad. Sigh.
There were always albums that made great corner stones in musical genres, like e.g. Miles Davis' Bitches Brew.
And the great ideas behind so-called concept albums like The Who's Tommy or Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon or The Wall.
No, i do not want the musicians that i am a fan of to make a single song every 2 weeks or an EP every 6 month.
Call me old fashioned or nostalgic or even anachronistic.
I want to hear differend periods of creativity in album chunks. No matter how long it takes...
People today are still able to watch a two hour hollywood movie without complete loss of concentration.
They still go to concerts with setlists long like albums or double albums.
Why shouldn't they still be able to get the message or dramaturgy of an album?
And I still think it is up to the artists to sell the idea behind their albums. And not bitching too much about how sad the whole business got and trust in the audience. If I find a new artist interesting or the single that promotes an album, i listen to the whole album, and i know many people still do it alike, old and young....
Best (maybe too idealistic and optimistic) regards,
Martin
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 15, 2013 20:21:47 GMT -6
I don't disagree, small, but people aren't really going to movies the way they used to. Seems like consumption has changed.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Nov 16, 2013 11:20:48 GMT -6
I'm glad Lefsetz finally figured out what some of us have known for a half century! What he hasn't figured out is that in the singles world an artist needs to perform 200 nights a year in order to make a living!
The album needs to be completely reinvented and in the meantime artists need to get their asses out of their home studios and back on stage where they can learn how to really connect with people in an extraordinary manner. The audience hasn't changed a bit. They're just yawning at all the mediocrity. Harry Potter proved that books aren't dead if they are good enough. The same is undoubtedly true of albums.
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Post by Ward on Nov 17, 2013 9:33:04 GMT -6
1. The very fact that Elton John and Paul McCartney are even putting out albums today is one problem.
Why? They had their day. They've made enough money for 100 retirements. Bow out gracefully.
This has been a huge problem with the music industry for 50 years. For Pete's Sake, KNOW WHEN
you're old. Know when you should be retired. Know when to bow out gracefully and leave your legacy
in tact. Have some dignity!! If you still wish to be in the business, then invest in new artists
instead of your own bloated and irrelevant ego. The queen and macca were 2 of my faves, BTW.
2. The fact that Elton and Macca are being mentioned in the article disturbs me, when there are so many
other important (and relatively newer yet to be successful artists) who are more relevant to today's
music business that aren't gaining any traction. Delta Spirit? Mothertruckers? hundreds of others.
3. He seems completely ignorant to the current EP and Vinyl trends happening. A lot of younger bands are
doing one or both of these things today: Recording and releasing 4-5 song EPs on CD with a download key
and doing so every 6 months or less to a loyal following... although most are only selling 250-500 copies
of each of these. THE OTHER side is Vinyl. 5 to 8 songs pressed on vinyl with a big sleeve, just like the
old days, and a download key with the product. Fans feel compelled to buy the vinyl cos it's real. Then
they get the instant access of the digital download to fill their iphones, ipads, itunes etc. And where it's
a locked copyright protected MP3 in some cases, it doesn't get shared. In other cases because they're buying
vinyl, when they are asked to share they tell their friends "Buy your own damned copy, this one is mine".
Just some things to think about.
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Post by Ward on Nov 17, 2013 9:40:45 GMT -6
I don't disagree, small, but people aren't really going to movies the way they used to. Seems like consumption has changed. People aren't going to movies like they used to because of $5.75 for a bucket of watered down soda, $3 candy bars. $5 hot dogs, $7 nachos and $6 buckets of popcorn. $25 for two tickets, $40 for snacks. Friends have been in the cinema business, and relate that people complain about the concession prices, not the ticket prices. It will take all these multiplex cinema chains and franchisers another 20 years to figure that part out. Greed always trumps common sense and is the enemy of long-term success. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Nov 17, 2013 9:48:44 GMT -6
Ward, I like that vinyl + download key idea. Albums aren't dead, just comatose. Beck's "Sea Change" was the real deal, but there's just so much product available now that everyone can self publish, it's no wonder the album format has faded. The smorgasbord metaphor is true, why would young people eat one complete meal if they can have a taste of lobster, a shrimp or two, some filet, then any side, any vegetable, and any desert they desire. Me, I like one well balanced complete meal of high quality organic foods, but I don't expect everyone else to do that. Perhaps with maturity, comes better choices, and the music business is driven by young people. Over 40 adults buy maybe a song or two a year.
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 17, 2013 11:40:27 GMT -6
I think the question is whether or not there has been a change in consumption in the internet age. I think there has been. Attention spans have dwindled.
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Post by Ward on Nov 17, 2013 12:05:42 GMT -6
I think the question is whether or not there has been a change in consumption in the internet age. I think there has been. Attention spans have dwindled. No one can argue with that. It's probably the effect of consumption overload. We are just too bombarded with things to read, watch and listen to these days! Kids can't even function without being glued to a screen 18-20 hours a day. |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Nov 17, 2013 12:10:02 GMT -6
Why go to a multiplex cinema with a screen no bigger than what most people have at home? Same problem: mediocrity and lack of creativity.
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 17, 2013 12:49:23 GMT -6
Bob, I tend to agree with you - but there is incredible music all around us - but the general public doesn't seem to be interested. Station Inn? Hell - there's incredible musicianship at Robert's Western World Wed-Sat 6-10...I'm not really sure where the disconnect is.
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Post by littlesicily on Nov 17, 2013 13:35:49 GMT -6
1. The very fact that Elton John and Paul McCartney are even putting out albums today is one problem. Why? They had their day. They've made enough money for 100 retirements. Bow out gracefully. I doubt that money is even a motivating consideration for them. If they want to continue creating, more power to them. Fans/consumers can then choose to buy it or not. But isn't making music fundamentally about expressing art, emotion, conviction, etc? To that end, I say let them make music till they physically can't. Some of my favorite Johnny Cash recordings are the ones he did in his final years / months of living. |
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Post by Ward on Nov 17, 2013 18:08:52 GMT -6
1. The very fact that Elton John and Paul McCartney are even putting out albums today is one problem. Why? They had their day. They've made enough money for 100 retirements. Bow out gracefully. I doubt that money is even a motivating consideration for them. If they want to continue creating, more power to them. Fans/consumers can then choose to buy it or not. But isn't making music fundamentally about expressing art, emotion, conviction, etc? To that end, I say let them make music till they physically can't. Some of my favorite Johnny Cash recordings are the ones he did in his final years / months of living. I appreciate what you're saying and I see the sense in it too, and I was being kind of extreme for a reason. The record companies held back new acts throughout the 80s and 90s for the sake of pushing the heck out of Rolling Stones' records and others that already had wildly successful careers, rather than invest in new bands that could have proved to sustain the industry much longer and not led them (and us) to the mess we're into today. With regards to Johnny Cash, those last 4 records were perhaps the most important ones he put out since the early 1960s and did more for music (screw the industry bit) in their time than just about anything and rallied the world back to appreciation for heart-wrenching mind-warping delivery of song, such as hadn't been truly felt by so many (who needed to) in decades. That is the exception, not the rule. There are other poignant examples, such as anything Jeff Beck does, or George Clinton. But most everything done by recycled artists seems to be uninspired records made by artists who are well past their "sell by" date and only take resources, air time and attention away from potentially new game-changing artists who languish in relative obscurity and tread water in futility until they finally give up. Am I making sense to anyone else? |
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Post by tonycamphd on Nov 17, 2013 18:30:36 GMT -6
1. The very fact that Elton John and Paul McCartney are even putting out albums today is one problem. Why? They had their day. They've made enough money for 100 retirements. Bow out gracefully. This has been a huge problem with the music industry for 50 years. For Pete's Sake, KNOW WHEN you're old. Know when you should be retired. Know when to bow out gracefully and leave your legacy in tact. Have some dignity!! You're entitled to your opinion, Music is supposed to be art last time i checked, i don't believe anyone should suggest wether any human of any age, should continue to create and share their art?? Not liking an artist is one thing, but cutting someone off?? i don't like that idea. Of course this is JMO |
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Post by Ward on Nov 17, 2013 19:02:20 GMT -6
Editing went all wrong on this one!
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Post by Ward on Nov 17, 2013 19:09:16 GMT -6
irrelevant.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Nov 17, 2013 19:51:12 GMT -6
I've always believed that an artist is always as good as their best work. What drove them to do what they've done is in their DNA, and I feel they've earned the right to continue in any way they see fit. Fans can always turn away, not watch, whatever. Should Picasso have stopped painting the last 60 years of his life because he'd peaked at Les Demoiselles d'Avignon, should John Cale retire while he might have a great song or two in him yet, should BB King stop playing because he can barely walk now. McCartney, Jagger, et al may not be to my first choice musically anymore, but for all the monumental joy they've given me, and millions of others, I'm grateful to have been there and done that, and wish them all the happiness in the world. I would have loved to have heard Lincoln speak, even if he was 101 years old. Hearing Jagger sing one word is worth suffering any monkey man moves he might make. I can't say I agree with you here Ward, although I too might cringe a little when a truly great artist seems to forget their not 25 anymore. I believe someone like McCartney has miraculously managed to maintain his dignity, there is no way to even imagine what it must be like to be that guy. So he does a few so-so records, just hearing that voice live is enough to send shivers down a million spines simultaneously.
Ward, when you said "they've had their day", it makes me think you don't understand what being a true artist is. Anyone good enough today will find their way through, in fact, it's their job to overthrow the old guard. If they're not strong enough, it isn't the fault of the old timers. The transitional phase the music business is in now will settle, and whatever new forms music will take, you can sure there will be greatness.
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 17, 2013 20:07:27 GMT -6
Sigh.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2013 20:14:37 GMT -6
Hm,
i admit i never shared e.g. the opinion that Paul was the smartest Beatle, i always had many sympathy for ... Ringo.
BUT - who should decide what "sell by" date an artist has and when his time has come? What is important art and what not? Who deserves attention?
I am admiring Paul McCartney for still doing what he likes to do and it is great that it still is music, so what?
In my opinion Ozzy Osbourne should go on stage since he can not hold a single note anymore and has to drive in in a wheelchair. (Well, some people thought his "sell before" date was due in the eighties...not only for music but for life...)
I will listen to every Radiohead album that will be ever made.
And if Frankie S. sang "lalalalalalala", he still was "the voice"...
Just my 2 cents.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Nov 17, 2013 21:28:04 GMT -6
Nov 17, 2013 12:49:23 GMT -6 Johnkenn said:
"Bob, I tend to agree with you - but there is incredible music all around us - but the general public doesn't seem to be interested. Station Inn? Hell - there's incredible musicianship at Robert's Western World Wed-Sat 6-10...I'm not really sure where the disconnect is."
There is very good but there are no young Loretta Lynns or James Browns. That level of singing, performing and connecting is not something the average person runs into and Madison Avenue certainly doesn't want it competing with their commercials.
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Post by scumbum on Nov 17, 2013 22:59:48 GMT -6
Nov 17, 2013 12:49:23 GMT -6 Johnkenn said: "Bob, I tend to agree with you - but there is incredible music all around us - but the general public doesn't seem to be interested. Station Inn? Hell - there's incredible musicianship at Robert's Western World Wed-Sat 6-10...I'm not really sure where the disconnect is." There is very good but there are no young Loretta Lynns or James Browns. That level of singing, performing and connecting is not something the average person runs into and Madison Avenue certainly doesn't want it competing with their commercials. Exactly...... Thats funny , their commercials . It takes a tremendous amount of practice and effort to be one of the greats . Just finished watching the Doc about Jimi Hendrix and he played guitar CONSTANTLY , all day , everyday . |
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