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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 27, 2016 16:06:54 GMT -6
How are you guys handling drum stuff? I've got a song that it would be nice to have the "drummer" lay back on...Cubase has some nice features - Randomization you can add in ticks...I guess I could just try and play everything myself until I get it right...but WTF...I mean, who can do that lol. Anyway, just trying to add some more realism to fake drums. I thought I might just pull snare hits back a few samples, but then it starts having a robotic feel that way too. Just gonna have to pick and choose I think.
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Post by drbill on Jun 27, 2016 16:22:06 GMT -6
I have not found randomization Algo's helpful. They always just seem "out of the pocket" to me. IMO, there's nothing like hard work to get the groove happening.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 27, 2016 17:32:35 GMT -6
Well, I agree...I'm just white...which seems to effect my rhythm...but playing my own drums have definitely improved all of my playing. Hell, I'm even talking "feel" lol.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 27, 2016 17:37:46 GMT -6
Wouldn't that be a cool feature, though, if say - in the drum editor in the daw or whatever editor - you could have a "feel" adjustment where you could lay the snare back or whatever. Although, these are the kind of things I don't know about drums - is it all the pieces that are laying back? Kick and snare? Just the snare? I'm not sure.
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Post by mrholmes on Jun 27, 2016 17:50:20 GMT -6
How are you guys handling drum stuff? I've got a song that it would be nice to have the "drummer" lay back on...Cubase has some nice features - Randomization you can add in ticks...I guess I could just try and play everything myself until I get it right...but WTF...I mean, who can do that lol. Anyway, just trying to add some more realism to fake drums. I thought I might just pull snare hits back a few samples, but then it starts having a robotic feel that way too. Just gonna have to pick and choose I think. Don't you use logic.? First hard quantize the notes you want to lay back, do try different amounts of laid-back feel - manual by hand with the mouse. If you have found one that is near whats in your mind use small amounts of the humanize function to make it more real. Listen to it treat some notes manually ... if it feels right you are there. Works for me, and works for a lot of friends who write film music. There is only one thing that is better.... a real drummer....
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 27, 2016 18:08:46 GMT -6
No, I use Cubase and PTs...but both have mostly the same features...I guess I'm asking if there's a quicker way to do it than..."manually"
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Post by kcatthedog on Jun 27, 2016 18:20:23 GMT -6
I think Mr Holmes is on to something: , as in logic you have its flex time which would allow you to pull or push the time of any region or part ?
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 27, 2016 18:25:37 GMT -6
Ohhh...yeah...that's a REALLY cool feature in Logic.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jun 27, 2016 18:56:36 GMT -6
if you have your drum parts on separate tracks, you could flex time just the snare for example agains the rest of the drums ?
here is flex time and tempo change overview vid.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 27, 2016 19:51:33 GMT -6
See, but therein lies the problem...I'm not using Logic
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jun 27, 2016 21:37:57 GMT -6
See, but therein lies the problem...I'm not using Logic Elastic audio may work in PT, also there is time shift in audio suite as well and this can also work. You could automate an insert delay for 1/16 or 1/8 note depending on bpm ( technically you wouldn't have to have a "delay" ) for the snare. Automate the master bypass and select which notes you want to "groove" and use the stock pt delay with no feedback and use the groove slider to taste I find using another snare or side stick to accentuate the 2/4 or 3. Also layering a clap with verb on the last bar of the measure can add a push/ pull effect . Most pop/ top 40 I'm hearing the drums / bpm is double time, so maybe try doubling your bpm, instead of your snare falling on the 2/ 4 your snare/ clap is on the 3 I hope this helps you
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Post by noah shain on Jun 27, 2016 23:04:32 GMT -6
Do you use beat detective in pro tools? It can quantize to all kinds of different grooves. You can even analyze a groove you like from an existing song...say Back in Black and apply that groove to your quantizing. It can take a few tries and a little experimenting but it's pretty damned easy and can be really good. I like the mpc swing at low %s. Beat Detective in general can be frustrating and you might find it tricky the first couple times you do it but once you get the hang of it it's easy. And good.
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Post by Randge on Jun 27, 2016 23:23:10 GMT -6
Wouldn't that be a cool feature, though, if say - in the drum editor in the daw or whatever editor - you could have a "feel" adjustment where you could lay the snare back or whatever. Although, these are the kind of things I don't know about drums - is it all the pieces that are laying back? Kick and snare? Just the snare? I'm not sure. Are you using Groove Agent 4? There is quite a bit you can do regarding feel and swing in there.
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Post by Randge on Jun 27, 2016 23:25:00 GMT -6
You can also use the nudge palette in Cubase, too.
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Post by kilroyrock on Jun 28, 2016 5:35:09 GMT -6
John, There are a couple options I remember from when I was elastic timing punk drummers, and this should be able to be added to your drum tracks just the same.
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Post by kilroyrock on Jun 28, 2016 5:48:28 GMT -6
Further, I personally find that it's velocity more than timing that really makes a drummer sound like a drummer and not a machine.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 28, 2016 8:31:03 GMT -6
Yeah...maybe so. Maybe the real question is "how do I make this computer feel and sound like a session drummer..." Who has spent years honing his craft. I think he real issue is just me getting better at programming - to the point I can play everything all the way through and not piece mill it together. I haven't gotten comfortable enough to not rely on quantization yet...know what I mean?
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Post by kilroyrock on Jul 1, 2016 13:15:02 GMT -6
I do flams a lot to make it sound more like what a drummer would do, in the fills mostly. I keep one dead on, then put my mouse basically on it with the snap off and click. gives a good flam. granted, I make all of my drums in a 20 year old program called drumsite from a guy named pietro in Italy. It's still legit easy to create decent drums.
if you vary the hi hat, even full/half every other, it sounds instantly more like a drummer. Or just buy more patterns for your ezdrummer plugin for 30 bucks.
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Post by swurveman on Jul 3, 2016 8:31:39 GMT -6
Yeah...maybe so. Maybe the real question is "how do I make this computer feel and sound like a session drummer..." Who has spent years honing his craft. I think he real issue is just me getting better at programming - to the point I can play everything all the way through and not piece mill it together. I haven't gotten comfortable enough to not rely on quantization yet...know what I mean? For me, since I don't want to nudge individual hits, I use Superior Drummer's grooves which were played by session drummers and which I can drag and drop and then edit them within Cubase's midi drum editor. For example, I might like the kick and drum but don't like the hi hat. So, I change the high hat pattern. You can get any kind of style and genre of grooves, load em up, drag em in and starts tweaking if necessary. Here's one example of a session drummer who's midi grooves you can use. This happens to be rock, but there's tons of other styles. I'd rather import the grooves already established, but I understand how others would rather use quantizing features etc.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 3, 2016 8:45:15 GMT -6
Yeah...maybe so. Maybe the real question is "how do I make this computer feel and sound like a session drummer..." Who has spent years honing his craft. I think he real issue is just me getting better at programming - to the point I can play everything all the way through and not piece mill it together. I haven't gotten comfortable enough to not rely on quantization yet...know what I mean? For me, since I don't want to nudge individual hits, I use Superior Drummer's grooves which were played by session drummers and which I can drag and drop and then edit them within Cubase's midi drum editor. For example, I might like the kick and drum but don't like the hi hat. So, I change the high hat pattern. You can get any kind of style and genre of grooves, load em up, drag em in and starts tweaking if necessary. Here's one example of a session drummer who's midi grooves you can use. This happens to be rock, but there's tons of other styles. I'd rather import the grooves already established, but I understand how others would rather use quantizing features etc. You know, I've been playing mine - and mostly getting away with it, but I'm not a drummer...so it's lacking sometimes. I need to go back to doing this and editing like you're talking about. I just got away with it because I got tired of searching. EZ Drummer's feature of Tap to Find is really great...probably makes this a lot easier now.
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Post by mrholmes on Jul 3, 2016 13:03:12 GMT -6
No, I use Cubase and PTs...but both have mostly the same features...I guess I'm asking if there's a quicker way to do it than..."manually" It audio. I dont see any other way. First hard quantize and then you have to do work manually, otherwhise hire one of the online drummers....
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 3, 2016 13:22:20 GMT -6
Well, I have plenty of people I could hire...but that's not the point.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2016 22:26:42 GMT -6
Jamstix is my drummer, serves me well, if i want a human feel. Needs quite some time to get in, but i like what it is capable of and this is unique.
Humanize functions do not work right most of the time, there was no research why this is so. But not long ago, it has been found by scientific analysis. Human feel is mostly dependend on a very typical human error behaviour of drummers. It is about the micro-timing errors, that, once they occur, are *repeated* several times until the drummer comes back to a better accuracy. The guy who researched this wrote a plugin for Ableton that is open source, done in Max4Live if i recall it correctly. The samples i heard from this were pretty convincing in terms of sounding like human touch. Much more than probably everything i heard before in this field. But well - unfortunately Ableton-only. I did not hear about anyone trying to translate this into code suitable for other DAW-plugin formats. This would be a very useful task ... theory and algorithms are open for other developers.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 7, 2016 22:39:21 GMT -6
I would think there are tendencies...to rush fills...triplets, etc...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2016 22:42:42 GMT -6
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