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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 13, 2016 7:15:37 GMT -6
I find myself in the unenviable position of needing to sell the J-45tv or the km84. I would always err on the side of choosing the excellent instrument over the excellent mic (if you're taking picture of poop, it's gonna be poop no matter how good the camera)...Here's my dilemma - I also have the D-28A which is objectively a better instrument. This J-45 has been fun to look at (covet like the goblin dude in LOTR's) but ultimately, there wouldn't be many times I would choose it over the D-28.
Honestly, the Gefell M300 sounds just as good - almost identical - to the 84. Just a tad brighter...but I often find myself lifting the top on the 84. I could pocket a lot of moolah and just use the Gefell.
I have buyers lined up for both. Sigh. What would the board do? Sell them both? Lol
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jun 13, 2016 7:24:19 GMT -6
You'll get more money for the J45 right? And you just picked it up right....so I'm assuming you're making some decent cash with a quick flip. That seems like the obvious choice to me.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jun 13, 2016 7:33:33 GMT -6
Also, just checked out your clips here: soundcloud.com/johnandkris/sets/neumann-km84-vs-gefell-m300I think the KM84 sounds beefier without getting flabby. The Gefell sounds a little thin on the bottom. Both sound nice, but the 84 sounds right to me. Especially at :50 when you start playing that bluesy riff with the bass notes, the Gefell sounds anemic there. |
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Post by kilroyrock on Jun 13, 2016 7:35:25 GMT -6
Sell the K84. I've never recorded a nice SDC though. I have recorded a pair of martins through a pair of C1000s's though and it's probably the most beautiful thing I've ever recorded. The J45 may sound better in another person's hands or compliment that D-28 on a session. Acoustic instruments really are worth all the dollars.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,956 
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Post by ericn on Jun 13, 2016 7:47:22 GMT -6
Keep the Guitar, Instruments before gear every time. Plus the guitar is more likely to be more inspirational and your going to sell the song not the recording!
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Post by mrholmes on Jun 13, 2016 7:59:36 GMT -6
If you also own a great Gefell M 300.
Sell what gets used very seldom... if you don't use the 84 - sell it... simple.
If you use the guitar even more seldom than the KM 84 than sell the dam guitar.
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Post by joseph on Jun 13, 2016 8:59:21 GMT -6
The M300 is harder on the transients, which you can't fix with eq, only rabbit hole of compression/saturation to make up for lack of transformers in the mic.
Rather eq the 84, and have better transient response.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 13, 2016 9:10:52 GMT -6
Well, that's a little of what scares me about selling the 84. I do hear it being a little more brittle on transients...and that could turn acoustic recording from a point and hit record to something I have to futz with...and that would be going backwards.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Jun 13, 2016 9:12:19 GMT -6
so don't sell it.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 13, 2016 9:14:29 GMT -6
I think you could say the 84 is the smoother of the two...but here's the trap I ALWAYS fall into. "It's not THAT much different." Then I assign a dollar value on it a la "it's not $1000 different..." There's no way to put a value on something that just works. So I think I know the answer.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 13, 2016 9:15:30 GMT -6
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Post by Ward on Jun 13, 2016 12:23:21 GMT -6
Sell the K84. I've never recorded a nice SDC though. I have recorded a pair of martins through a pair of C1000s's though and it's probably the most beautiful thing I've ever recorded. The J45 may sound better in another person's hands or compliment that D-28 on a session. Acoustic instruments really are worth all the dollars. Funny, you know... the C1000 is just regarded as a budget crap SDC but in fact it can really sound quite magical sometimes. I picked up my pair of them in 1987 along with a D112 (hey I was a kid) and I've held on to all 3 all this time. Another sleeper: The AKG C535 hand-held SDC vocal mic. Also special on acoustic instruments and dynamite on hats... and one amazing live vocal microphone too. They made the first one for Frank Sinatra. Good company. |
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Post by Randge on Jun 13, 2016 15:12:49 GMT -6
I find myself in the unenviable position of needing to sell the J-45tv or the km84. I would always err on the side of choosing the excellent instrument over the excellent mic (if you're taking picture of poop, it's gonna be poop no matter how good the camera)...Here's my dilemma - I also have the D-28A which is objectively a better instrument. This J-45 has been fun to look at (covet like the goblin dude in LOTR's) but ultimately, there wouldn't be many times I would choose it over the D-28. Honestly, the Gefell M300 sounds just as good - almost identical - to the 84. Just a tad brighter...but I often find myself lifting the top on the 84. I could pocket a lot of moolah and just use the Gefell. I have buyers lined up for both. Sigh. What would the board do? Sell them both? Lol Like my one liner at the bottom says, "sell gear to buy more gear?" Crazy talk!!! |
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Post by drbill on Jun 13, 2016 15:49:19 GMT -6
The KM84 is an all time "must have" mic if you record drums, ac guitars or even vocals. Not something that should be rotated in and out unless you REALLY need the cash. I've heard the M300. I love Gefell's. I REALLY love em. IMO, the 300 is not one of their best mics. That said, it's certainly respectable. I think you already know the answer to your question.... :-)
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jun 13, 2016 15:52:35 GMT -6
Efficient workflow is key. If you can nail the sound/ take you want with km84 then you can move on instead of eqing and worrying about how gefell fits in the mix. The gtr can go, along with the gefell if you choose but IMO I would keep the km84. It's a classic for a reason!
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 13, 2016 16:14:50 GMT -6
R.I.P. J-45
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 13, 2016 16:15:39 GMT -6
Made a little money on it though. I've had a few good sales lately...actually made money which is not usual lol.
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Post by Guitar on Jun 13, 2016 16:36:54 GMT -6
I think you made a good decision.
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Post by yotonic on Jun 13, 2016 16:37:50 GMT -6
I love the Black Keys vocals on the KM84
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Post by svart on Jun 14, 2016 7:09:37 GMT -6
When it comes to decisions like this, I ask..
Which one is making me better at what I'm trying to do?
Is the instrument making me a better player?
Is the mic making me a better recordist?
It sounds like the guitar wasn't making you a better player, but the mic is giving you better results, so the hard decision you made was a good one.
That being said, I LOVE gefell mics and I didn't hear as big of a difference as others heard. I like a bit more crispness during tracking.
A different player, on a different take, with fresh or dull strings, different pics, etc.. All make tiny differences in mics a moot point. I've heard plenty of players change their style slightly as the takes go on, and what you thought you heard during the first take might be gone by the 5th, or vice-versa.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 14, 2016 7:52:23 GMT -6
Good decision John. You have a fine guitar and a great mic, you could make a record with just the Martin and the K84 if you had to. You'd regret not having the KM84 every day.
Having a Gibson is fun, you get to use that flavor once in a while, but it's a non-essential. I don't stress about Gibson's, Martin's have a much higher percentage of "good ones" than Gibson does. There's a guitar my friend bought two years ago, I think it's called a CEO7. It's like Martin made a brand new old style Gibson. Guess what, it sounds better than any smaller size Gibson I've played, seriously, significantly better. So, Martin made the best Gibson, now that's a trip.
Funny side note, I tried the KM84 on vocals one day out of curiosity, Bob Ohlson mentioned it was a really good vocal mic. It was very sensitive, but with good placement and a pop filter, I thought it sounded like Marvin Gaye's sound, and that's pretty damn good.
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Post by kilroyrock on Jun 14, 2016 8:14:00 GMT -6
They didn't call it a ceo-7 because only a CEO would spend 2.5k on a Gibson-like Martin did they?  |
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Post by popmann on Jun 14, 2016 11:26:32 GMT -6
I nearly always side with the instrument....but, you made a good call here--both because I feel about J45s like you do about Taylors, and because it's ALSO not your preferred instrument. I don't side with keeping any rando instrument--you like the Martin better. So do I. Done. Now what to record it? Oh--you have that, done. It would've been a mistake to sell the mic you're happiest with for your fave acoustic instrument--to be left with an acoustic instrument you like less AND a less accurate way to record it?
Long winded "good call".
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 14, 2016 12:47:34 GMT -6
Yeah...it's more aesthetic infatuation with the J-45 True Vintage. It was definitely a really good sounding instrument, but not nearly the instrument the D-28 Authentic is. I might have said this earlier, but I'm not sure there would be a recording where I would absolutely choose the J45 over the 28 on...So...had to do what I had to do. It was an impulse buy that netted about $400 after the shipping...So, a unicorn...
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Post by Guitar on Jun 14, 2016 12:50:27 GMT -6
I personally have one "good" guitar and then 5 or 6 cheap weird ones that aren't worth selling, but cool enough to play sometimes. I think it's enough for most things. Every one of them has a song in it, or a different tuning. I would love to add an HD-28 though. That thing just grabs my attention when I pick it up.
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