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Post by jakeharris on May 17, 2016 17:18:27 GMT -6
I tracked today with a "clone" it worked but DAMN so did I !!!! You never said what the "clone" was?
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 17, 2016 19:50:43 GMT -6
The thing is, sozocaps said he needs a really good tube mic. It sounded like he wanted a no nonsense home run hitter. The Soyuz is exactly that, and a lot less expensive than say... a vintage U-67.
I understand that superstar producers or artists sometimes get stuff for free, it's not unnatural for a company to see the endorsement of someone respected as important.
That said, I don't think Sylvia Massey is the kind of person who would ever use a mic she doesn't love the sound of for a lead vocal, and certainly wouldn't rave about it. No way she'd undermine her credibility over a mic, when she has access to a roomful of classic mics anytime she needs one. Even if she was given a mic for free, I don't think there's anything in the world that could make that woman use it if it wasn't right, that's just the way she is.
Eric, sozocaps, if you ever try the Soyuz 0-19, you'll understand why people are excited about it. Imagine a dream team Neumann, rich like a U-47, top like an M49, middle like a U67, gain like a U87. Well, the Soyuz does sound like itself, it's kind of like all the most desirable overtones you've always imagined are there and none of the nasties, but my description might give you some idea of how cool it is to have a new manufacturer actually make a new mic that competes head on with the finest vintage mics, and you can just go to a store and buy it, plus you get a warranty.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 17, 2016 20:18:10 GMT -6
The thing is, sozocaps said he needs a really good tube mic. It sounded like he wanted a no nonsense home run hitter. The Soyuz is exactly that, and a lot less expensive than say... a vintage U-67. I understand that sometimes superstar producers or artists sometimes get stuff for free, it's noy unnatural for a company to see the endorsement of someone respected as important. That said, I don't think Sylvia Massey is the kind of person who would ever use a mic she doesn't love the sound of for a lead vocal, and certainly wouldn't rave about it. No way she'd undermine her credibility over a mic, when she has access to a roomful of classic mics anytime she needs one. Eric, sozocaps, if you ever try the Soyuz 0-19, you'll understand why people are excited about it. Imagine a dream team Neumann, rich like a U-47, top like an M49, middle like a U67, gain like a U87. Well, the Soyuz does sound like itself, it's kind of like all the most desirable overtones you've always imagined are there and none of the nasties, but my description might give you some idea of how cool it is to have a new manufacturer actually make a new mic that competes head on with the finest vintage mics, and you can just go to a store and buy it, plus you get a warranty. Martin, I agree the Soyuz is an excellent mic from what I have heard from a number of people I respect. It sounds great on you, but when it comes to mics there is no perfect mic for everybody and everything. It may belong in the class of U47,67 M49 C12 251, but I don't think Sozo was ever really in that price ballpark. The thing with Shannon is you can get the flavor HE wants! Having sold as many mics as just about anybody out there I can't emphasize what a great resource a true custom, tuned mic is ! As for Sylvia, I don't know for sure, I only my own experience to go by as what the owner of one of the largest pro audio and the worlds largest mic dealer called the person "who knows more about what we do than anybody in the building". I know very few have ever refused free stuff in this industry, myself included, I just wish more of the demos I received would have been open ended. I will not publicly go into any conversations with dealers or endorsers because these were private conversations. I'm sure Mizz Masey is happy with her mic, And will admit I know nothing of the specifics of the transaction(s) involving her mic, only the standard practices of this industry that I have been involved in now for over 30 years. I'm very glad you love your mic and hold your opinion and talent in the highest regard. I enjoy reading your posts.
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 17, 2016 20:39:41 GMT -6
Thanks so much Eric. I was truly thinking of sozocap's real need for a winner vocal mic. I didn't see if he posted a price range. Shannon installed my Thiersch M7 blueline capsule in my previous mic, and went above and beyond the call of duty to upgrade the mount for me, so I know he's an artist in his field.
I wish I could afford the Soyuz myself, but it's just out of reach for me. I'll say this though, at $1,900, I'm not sure any mic by anyone offers more bang for the buck than the new Blackspade UM-18B or R. Of course you'd have to see if it's a match for your voice, but that thing is immaculately put together with first class parts.
I'm also interested in hearing the new Lauten Audio Eden, that thing looks pretty cool.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on May 19, 2016 9:40:24 GMT -6
MJB you sound like you work for them lol
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Post by Johnkenn on May 19, 2016 9:44:02 GMT -6
I happen to know that Soyuz does not give out mics for free for product endorsements. I might have assumed that myself from the video. Well, let's not be naive
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Post by Johnkenn on May 19, 2016 9:57:46 GMT -6
guitfiddler There are several threads with examples comparing the modded cv4 to a real 67. Search for Rhoades and it should pop up. This was interesting too, because Shannon had put in his capsule, we tweaked a bunch - all without hearing the 67. Then someone brought in a 67 and it was shockingly close to my ears. Yeah, I thought the real 67 was a little smoother on top and a little bigger in the bottom, but TO ME, it shared sonic characteristics and it wasn't worth the additional $5000. We talk about these being "mods"...but it's just a capsule replacement on (in the case of the CV4) an already well built and thought out modern circuit. I have ZERO doubt that there are other very talented capsule makers out there (count them on one hand), but I have first hand experience with how Shannon's caps sound. They are better quality - which I think makes the midrange more pleasant...They can be tweaked/tilted to have more bottom, or more top...They stay consistent across the frequency range no matter the dynamic, i.e. they don't collapse when they are pushed...and that's a huge characteristic of quality vintage mics. That's something I find on cheaper mics...their frequency range changes as you push the dynamics. Maybe there are other equally excellent options out there for under $2k...I just haven't found one. That being said, I've heard really good things about the Lauten mics and a few others.
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Post by ericn on May 19, 2016 10:09:36 GMT -6
I agree there are other very capable Capsule builders, some will do some tweaking, but most are not going to tweak the whole mic or even deviate much from their standard build. Or they specialize.
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Post by kcatthedog on May 19, 2016 10:35:17 GMT -6
just cus we get enthusiastic about a piece of gear doesn't mean we are closet shilin for them but on the other hand if I die my hair blonde and open a groovy studio in an old theatre can I get a groovy soyuz mike ?
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 19, 2016 10:54:25 GMT -6
I'd love to compare the CV-4 with Shannon's capsule to my Blackspade UM-18R. They're the same basic price. I've tried quite a few mics lately, and none in it's price range compete with the UM-18R. The new designation "18", is because as Blackspade updated and modified their UM-17B Mk II, it ultimately became different enough to become a new model. I chose the Thiersch Redline capsule over the blue because I had two mics with the Blueline, and it wasn't as good a match for my voice.
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Post by ericn on May 19, 2016 10:56:01 GMT -6
just cus we get enthusiastic about a piece of gear doesn't mean we are closet shilin for them but on the other hand if I die my hair blonde and open a groovy studio in an old theatre can I get a groovy soyuz mike ? Gotta have a Prince story first! No wait that hasn't worked!
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Post by Johnkenn on May 19, 2016 11:51:47 GMT -6
I'd love to compare the CV-4 with Shannon's capsule to my Blackspade UM-18R. They're the same basic price. I've tried quite a few mics lately, and none in it's price range compete with the UM-18R. The new designation "18", is because as Blackspade updated and modified their UM-17B Mk II, it ultimately became different enough to become a new model. I chose the Thiersch Redline capsule over the blue because I had two mics with the Blueline, and it wasn't as good a match for my voice. For me - and this is just for me - the Blueline could get a little harsh when I belted. Is that not the case with the Redline? Other than that, the Blueline was gorgeous.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on May 19, 2016 15:28:50 GMT -6
Come to brooklyn and bring your mic, mjb.
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Post by M57 on May 19, 2016 16:16:05 GMT -6
I just got the Blackspade UM-18R last week. Disclaimer: I don't have the high end point of reference you all have; all I'm familiar with is what's in my locker and what I've tried before: AT-4033, Rode NT-1A, Warbler MKID, SM-57, SM-7B and the Soundelux U95. Of these, the Soundelux was perhaps my favorite, but the Blackspade blows it out of the water, making the U95 sound pinched throughout a large section of its mid-range. A Shannon modded CV-4, and the Tele AR-51 were the other mics at the top of my short list, and I don't doubt I would be happy with either one of them, but I'm thrilled with my purchase. With the Blackspade I feel like I'm hearing my true voice for the first time. I haven't given it a hard burn-in yet but I've been doing some vocal tests on it with my voice at various distances. It doesn't really matter where I stand - It sounds fantastic. I'm not exactly sure what's going on but, closer seems flatter, requiring almost no EQ, and further adds air. I feel like depending on how I want it to sit in the mix and how much high pass I'm going to use, I might choose to sing at different distances. Proximity effect is extremely manageable, and I'm blown away with how it deals with my somewhat sibilant voice. The sibilances feel natural to me.
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 19, 2016 16:56:56 GMT -6
Johnken said, "For me - and this is just for me - the Blueline could get a little harsh when I belted. Is that not the case with the Redline? Other than that, the Blueline was gorgeous".
I felt the same way John, when I really belted it out at crescendos, it was like the Blueline stiffened its shoulders, and the sound got a little thinner and harsh. The Redline doesn't do that at all. M57 is right about the sibilance too, with the UM-18R it just sounds natural, not exaggerated at all. You really don't need a de-esser with that thing unless you are excessive, and then it's still better than using a de-esser with the Blueline.
For all the hype and the Thiersch connection to Neumann, I honestly wasn't knocked out by the Blueline. I'm beginning to suspect that maybe the original Blueline U47 was great in spite of the Blueline, not because of it.
*I haven't used a real U47 though. I have used two original U47 FET's.
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Post by kcatthedog on May 19, 2016 17:20:03 GMT -6
The only person I know who shot out the blue and red line in the same mike is cat5: his mk-u47: perhaps he will chime in ? I remember thinking the blue richer and the red leaner ?
I think part of Shanon's voicing is the thinning of the diaphragm : does he do .2-.3 micron ?? I would think the thinner it is , the more accurately it tracks transients at the same tension/tuning ?
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Post by ericn on May 19, 2016 17:35:33 GMT -6
Johnken said, "For me - and this is just for me - the Blueline could get a little harsh when I belted. Is that not the case with the Redline? Other than that, the Blueline was gorgeous". I felt the same way John, when I really belted it out at crescendos, it was like the Blueline stiffened its shoulders, and the sound got a little thinner and harsh. The Redline doesn't do that at all. M57 is right about the sibilance too, with the UM-18R it just sounds natural, not exaggerated at all. You really don't need a de-esser with that thing unless you are excessive, and then it's still better than using a de-esser with the Blueline. For all the hype and the Thiersch connection to Neumann, I honestly wasn't knocked out by the Blueline. I'm beginning to suspect that maybe the original Blueline U47 was great in spite of the Blueline, not because of it. *I haven't used a real U47 though. I have used two original U47 FET's. FET 47 would be a k47 not a m7 so not a real comparison to a Thirsch. It Shows that nobody who's building M7 in mas really gets it right!
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 19, 2016 18:13:37 GMT -6
I wouldn't know because I've never used an original U47. I do know they vary a lot, so one person's U47 may not be another's. No wonder it's so hard to duplicate, it seems like no two were ever the same ;-)
The Redline in my mic is definitely not "leaner", if anything, it's more balanced and fuller. That's not to say it isn't in other mics, it just doesn't cringe when hit hard or turn edgy. I think it might be a little more forward though.
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Post by guitfiddler on May 19, 2016 21:33:58 GMT -6
guitfiddler There are several threads with examples comparing the modded cv4 to a real 67. Search for Rhoades and it should pop up. This was interesting too, because Shannon had put in his capsule, we tweaked a bunch - all without hearing the 67. Then someone brought in a 67 and it was shockingly close to my ears. Yeah, I thought the real 67 was a little smoother on top and a little bigger in the bottom, but TO ME, it shared sonic characteristics and it wasn't worth the additional $5000. We talk about these being "mods"...but it's just a capsule replacement on (in the case of the CV4) an already well built and thought out modern circuit. I have ZERO doubt that there are other very talented capsule makers out there (count them on one hand), but I have first hand experience with how Shannon's caps sound. They are better quality - which I think makes the midrange more pleasant...They can be tweaked/tilted to have more bottom, or more top...They stay consistent across the frequency range no matter the dynamic, i.e. they don't collapse when they are pushed...and that's a huge characteristic of quality vintage mics. That's something I find on cheaper mics...their frequency range changes as you push the dynamics. Maybe there are other equally excellent options out there for under $2k...I just haven't found one. That being said, I've heard really good things about the Lauten mics and a few others. Thanks for the info JK.
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Post by sozocaps on May 20, 2016 10:29:48 GMT -6
Shannon just received my Jolly modded mic... On his repose , I will refrain from commenting unless he wants to. What I will say is we are rebuilding it; Completely.....
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Post by Bob Olhsson on May 21, 2016 13:34:11 GMT -6
The thing to understand about a U67 is that it has anti-sibilance eq. and a 40 Hz. high pass filter that can be switched to 200 Hz. A lot of "modified" 67s have those removed and with it the throw it up and hit "record" magic, at least for me. I've never been impressed by any tube conversion of an 87.
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Post by Guitar on May 23, 2016 14:58:02 GMT -6
I just want to throw in a quick mention of the ADK capsules. I have a GK12d in my "251," and with the right circuit tweaks, it sounds phenomenal, very clear. Under $300 also.
Martin, I thought that Soyuz sounded spectacular on your voice.
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 23, 2016 15:19:08 GMT -6
Thanks Moneyxx. I bet it would be even better on a first class signal chain. I wish I could afford to own it! Hopefully at some point that'll happen.
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