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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 9, 2016 22:20:30 GMT -6
Was talking to sll earlier and he mentioned he P84s as being really, really good. Maybe he can chime in on the particular things that John did that others didn't. Anyway, it got me thinking about the rest of the line. I had a 2247LE years ago and from what I remember, it was a really good mic...but it was somewhat a victim of my never-ending mic quest...and I'm much more educated than I was 10 years ago. It makes me wonder how many things I either mid-attributed or just plain missed. I.e. How can you truly judge a mic through something like an MR816 and a pair of Mackie monitors? (No offense, Tony). Anyone using Peluso? Thoughts? I'd love to try the P12, 2247 (again) and P67.
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Post by tonycamphd on Apr 9, 2016 23:01:14 GMT -6
Was talking to sll earlier and he mentioned he P84s as being really, really good. Maybe he can chime in on the particular things that John did that others didn't. Anyway, it got me thinking about the rest of the line. I had a 2247LE years ago and from what I remember, it was a really good mic...but it was somewhat a victim of my never-ending mic quest...and I'm much more educated than I was 10 years ago. It makes me wonder how many things I either mid-attributed or just plain missed. I.e. How can you truly judge a mic through something like an MR816 and a pair of Mackie monitors? (No offense, Tony). Anyone using Peluso? Thoughts? I'd love to try the P12, 2247 (again) and P67. none taken, just own them for 17 years and know them like the back of your hand, you'd be surprised what you could hear through them. John Peluso knows his stuff no doubt, the only problem with his 84 knocks is they cost as much as used 84's, how are you liking yours? you don't talk about it much... BTW, i was looking at a C12 freq plot today, it had a healthy dip at 2k that made me think of you.
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 9, 2016 23:38:21 GMT -6
How do I like the KM84? I freaking love it...it's one of those "record with it and it works" with no muss, no fuss. If any mic survives with me more than two years without me second guessing it, you know it has to be good lol...I have talked about it at length, though. Agree with the price on the Pelusos...why not just buy a KM84?
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Post by jeromemason on Apr 10, 2016 0:33:47 GMT -6
Randge P28's are absolutely killer. One of my favorite circuits beside the KM54.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2016 1:26:02 GMT -6
Was talking to sll earlier and he mentioned he P84s as being really, really good. Maybe he can chime in on the particular things that John did that others didn't. Anyway, it got me thinking about the rest of the line. I had a 2247LE years ago and from what I remember, it was a really good mic...but it was somewhat a victim of my never-ending mic quest...and I'm much more educated than I was 10 years ago. It makes me wonder how many things I either mid-attributed or just plain missed. I.e. How can you truly judge a mic through something like an MR816 and a pair of Mackie monitors? (No offense, Tony). Anyone using Peluso? Thoughts? I'd love to try the P12, 2247 (again) and P67. I used to believe stuff like that until I saw two of three biggest guys in town using the 824. People like them for some reason and one of these guys had Barefoots in his B room so it wasn't like it was a lack of "better" options. As far as converters go, I have Antelope, had SSL, Presonus, Behringer and while yes the quality jump from Behringer to Antelope is there it's not something so obvious that I'd feel I couldn't just a mic through it and certainly the MR816 sits in a better spot on the qualty continuum than the Behringer stuff.
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Post by thehightenor on Apr 10, 2016 3:34:05 GMT -6
Does anyone have any experience with the P87?
I'm looking for a solid state LDC to compliment my Wunder CM7.
I want to use it for backing vocals and general instrument recording.
A Neumann U87 is £2000 here in the UK and the Peluso is £800 which is a huge difference.
There's also the Rode NT2 for £300.
Any suggestions for a great solid state LDC for BV's etc not costing the earth?
The P87 does look good.
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 10, 2016 8:35:16 GMT -6
Was talking to sll earlier and he mentioned he P84s as being really, really good. Maybe he can chime in on the particular things that John did that others didn't. Anyway, it got me thinking about the rest of the line. I had a 2247LE years ago and from what I remember, it was a really good mic...but it was somewhat a victim of my never-ending mic quest...and I'm much more educated than I was 10 years ago. It makes me wonder how many things I either mid-attributed or just plain missed. I.e. How can you truly judge a mic through something like an MR816 and a pair of Mackie monitors? (No offense, Tony). Anyone using Peluso? Thoughts? I'd love to try the P12, 2247 (again) and P67. I used to believe stuff like that until I saw two of three biggest guys in town using the 824. People like them for some reason and one of these guys had Barefoots in his B room so it wasn't like it was a lack of "better" options. As far as converters go, I have Antelope, had SSL, Presonus, Behringer and while yes the quality jump from Behringer to Antelope is there it's not something so obvious that I'd feel I couldn't just a mic through it and certainly the MR816 sits in a better spot on the qualty continuum than the Behringer stuff. Ok
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Post by sll on Apr 10, 2016 8:48:42 GMT -6
Like most of us, I have been on the never ending quest to find an alternative to the KM84. I've tried a bunch of them and most of them left me disappointed. Gefell M300s, Beezneez Lulu, the Mercenary 69. The Gefells are really nice, but certainly not like a KM84. I gave up and finally bought two KM84s. I should have done that in the first place, but was always worried about the quality of used mics. Buying mics off ebay is very risky. I certainly wasn't going to pay VK prices for them.
I thought I was done. I was happy with my 84's. However, my aural memory came back to me after using them a while on acoustic guitar. I remembered the high end sounding funny to me. A little smeared and disconnected from the midrange and low end of the mic. That may sound strange, but it reminds me of a 2 way speaker with a bad crossover point. This nice silky top end is just kind of floating out there on it's own. Call me crazy, but it drives me nuts. I ended up trying a pair of Peluso P84s. I was thinking, here we go again. They were surprisingly good and very close too a KM84. The best part about them is the top end sounds like it's part of the rest of the mic signal. They still have the great off axis response that the KM84 does. The only thing that was better on the KM84 was the low end had a little more of that Neumann mojo than the P84, otherwise, the midrange and top end is better on the P84. I end up rolling off most of that low end on guitar anyway unless it's a solo track.
Another surprise for me was Peluso's diaphragm and backplate are a direct fit and replacement for a Neumann KM84. He can reskin KM84s, or replace anything inside with his P84 capsule parts. He's the only one I know that is making them that way, the right way.
His 2247LE is very nice too. Uses the metal EF-12 tube which is similar to the VF-14, but has a different heater voltage. I've not heard his other mics yet. I did restore a vintage U87 with one of his new K87 capsules and it sounds great. Swapping out head baskets on the same mic/amp body with the Peluso capsule and a vintage K87, it's very hard to tell any difference.
I kind of overlooked Peluso mics in the past because I had not used any and I assumed they were just another Chinese made clone. The bodies and metal work are made in China like most places are doing now. However, unlike many, it's John's design and specs, he's not simply using the same stuff and putting his name on it.
I've talked with John a number of times and each time, I'm more impressed with his knowledge and products. He has a physics degree and learned from an ex-Neumann physicist/engineer from back in the old days. I'm not affiliated with Peluso in any way. I am just pleasantly surprised with his mics.
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Post by Randge on Apr 10, 2016 8:49:42 GMT -6
I use 824's with the matching sub. They do what I need them to and my mixes translate pretty well to any other environment, so count me in as another guy who knows them well and uses them every day. I am also a fan of the C5 Miktek's. To me, they are a hybrid sound between a 582's top end and a Km-84's mid and bottom. I really like them stock, no modding. They really excel at percussion things and I also use them on mandolins with the omni caps on quite a bit.
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Post by ragan on Apr 10, 2016 9:16:48 GMT -6
Does anyone have any experience with the P87? I'm looking for a solid state LDC to compliment my Wunder CM7. I want to use it for backing vocals and general instrument recording. A Neumann U87 is £2000 here in the UK and the Peluso is £800 which is a huge difference. There's also the Rode NT2 for £300. Any suggestions for a great solid state LDC for BV's etc not costing the earth? The P87 does look good. Run, don't walk to one of the 3U Audio threads here or the huge one on GS. You can see lots of pics of the guts (stuffed with WIMA, Dale, Fairchild, AMI, custom capsules) and hear lots of clips.
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Post by thehightenor on Apr 10, 2016 10:31:25 GMT -6
Great thanks, I'll take a look now :-)
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Apr 10, 2016 12:14:36 GMT -6
Does anyone have any experience with the P87? I'm looking for a solid state LDC to compliment my Wunder CM7. I want to use it for backing vocals and general instrument recording. A Neumann U87 is £2000 here in the UK and the Peluso is £800 which is a huge difference. There's also the Rode NT2 for £300. Any suggestions for a great solid state LDC for BV's etc not costing the earth? The P87 does look good. Remember this is Coming from a guy who has probably sold as many mics as anybody in the world . before I would spend more than $300 on any mic I didn't know would fit my needs to a tee I would spend some time and converse, with our own Shannon ! He won't bull shit you about mics, it may cost a bit more than you want to spend, but he will get you to the sound you want quicker and with less pain then trying to find a bargain and in the end I wager, while it will be more than you want to spend it will be less than you will spend! It might mean a couple of FedEx back and forth, but to me it is the quickest and cheapest way to get a mic that's going to sound the way you want! And yes once I have some $$ this is what I'm going to do ! Yeah maybe Shannon should hire me as his marketing guy I will work for mics but Shannon is one of a handful of guys who when we talk mics the BS dissapears and I feel like I' m talking to my Burn doc, BMW doc ,Aprilia Doc or Colnago Doc! Just like these guys when we talk about anything else it's all BS and good laughs! Oh and My Aprilia Doc and Burn Doc are both huge fans of his racing days
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Post by thehightenor on Apr 10, 2016 12:50:03 GMT -6
Well that's nice advice but maybe a bit more hassle than I need just to get a decent solid state LDC for backing vocals?
I already have spent a small fortune buying the Wunder CM7, which I had already demoed and thankfully it sounds really great on my voice out of the box so to speak.
Had I not already got my go to lead vocal mic, I think I would follow your advice, but for a utility mic for BV's and a few bit of occasional percussion etc I'm not sure I would have the spare time for a long winded process.
If I had the cash to spend, I'd just grab a Neumann U87 AI as I know that mic and it's perfect for the goals I have in mind, I just need to get close without spending £2K!
Good advice though, I shall bare it in mind for the future.
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Post by swurveman on Apr 10, 2016 12:56:59 GMT -6
I own both a 2247SE and a P12. IMO, neither mic has much lower mids responsiveness. The P12 is more hyped on the high end than the 2247SE. Because I don't want to go through another round of trying $1,500.00 mics, I'm keeping them until I can afford a really good LDC mic. The 2247SE works best on baritone singers. For anybody else it's "meh" as far as I'm concerned. I use the P12 if I need a bright acoustic guitar sound in a dense mix. Once I got my Schoeps CMC64 SDC's, I stopped using the Peluso's when the acoustic guitar was the main driver of the song.
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Post by thehightenor on Apr 10, 2016 13:18:18 GMT -6
OK so not a P87 then!
I think a Rode NT2 might do whilst I'm saving up for a U87 AI
I had a TLM 103 for BV's but found it a bit harsh and spitty.
I have an old Rode NTV which sounds good for acoustic guitar but not great for stacking BV's.
I also used to own a BLUE KIWI (an original Latvian made one) and I regret selling it because it did the U87 think quite well.
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Post by mulmany on Apr 10, 2016 14:28:57 GMT -6
OK so not a P87 then! I think a Rode NT2 might do whilst I'm saving up for a U87 AI I had a TLM 103 for BV's but found it a bit harsh and spitty. I have an old Rode NTV which sounds good for acoustic guitar but not great for stacking BV's. I also used to own a BLUE KIWI (an original Latvian made one) and I regret selling it because it did the U87 think quite well. If you are going Rode, go Warbler MKID or MKVID. Now back to Peluso
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Post by sll on Apr 10, 2016 14:52:31 GMT -6
OK so not a P87 then! I think a Rode NT2 might do whilst I'm saving up for a U87 AI I had a TLM 103 for BV's but found it a bit harsh and spitty. I have an old Rode NTV which sounds good for acoustic guitar but not great for stacking BV's. I also used to own a BLUE KIWI (an original Latvian made one) and I regret selling it because it did the U87 think quite well. Or, at least try the Peluso. I have the same Peluso capsule in my vintage U87 and another that is a vintage Neumann capsule. They are very close. No way I would spend $3200 for a new Neumann Ai based on alternatives that are out there now. Never liked Rode mics, and the TLM103 is very harsh and spotty like you said.
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Post by Randge on Apr 10, 2016 16:51:57 GMT -6
Well that's nice advice but maybe a bit more hassle than I need just to get a decent solid state LDC for backing vocals? I already have spent a small fortune buying the Wunder CM7, which I had already demoed and thankfully it sounds really great on my voice out of the box so to speak. Had I not already got my go to lead vocal mic, I think I would follow your advice, but for a utility mic for BV's and a few bit of occasional percussion etc I'm not sure I would have the spare time for a long winded process. If I had the cash to spend, I'd just grab a Neumann U87 AI as I know that mic and it's perfect for the goals I have in mind, I just need to get close without spending £2K! Good advice though, I shall bare it in mind for the future. Eric is right, most affordable option for a decent mic is talking to Shannon and getting a Rode K2 or something of that caliber that mods well that you can have for under a grand all in.
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 10, 2016 16:55:21 GMT -6
If you're just looking for a Fet...I think I'd go cheap and have Shannon pop a capsule in. Or try the Aston, 3U or Shure KSM 44.
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 10, 2016 16:56:44 GMT -6
Shannon has done a Blue Bluebird. I'd love to know how that turned out.
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 10, 2016 16:56:59 GMT -6
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 10, 2016 17:01:01 GMT -6
Didn't mean to offend any Mackie users. If you've mixed on anything long enough, you can make the correct decisions.
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Post by sean on Apr 10, 2016 17:18:59 GMT -6
I' use most of the Peluso tube microphones on a regular basis...2247, P49, P67, P12..all are perfectly good and fine. I've never been in love enough with any of them to spend my own money on one. I think the Blue Kiwi is a good suggestion if you are looking for something voiced similar to a U87, and I see them for sale for $800-$1000 used pretty regularly
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Post by jcoutu1 on Apr 10, 2016 18:10:02 GMT -6
I have a buddie selling a Rode K2 if anyone is looking for one.
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Post by tonycamphd on Apr 10, 2016 19:05:44 GMT -6
I have a buddie selling a Rode K2 if anyone is looking for one. i've been thinking about selling my fully modded Rode K2 with Tim Campbell CT12 capsule...., it sounds beautiful, but not really my style as a modern pop mic, i have other ideas for building a more needed style of replacement, or pay toward console parts that i need to finish this thing up, but i decided to give it another go around before i make a possible bad decision
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