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Post by rowmat on Apr 1, 2016 22:45:49 GMT -6
KMS84i? Hmm.. very interesting. I wonder how it sounds when compared to the 84? The KMS84i has lot more blast filtering with the basket but, as a result, doesn't sound as open as the KM84 with the basket fitted. Switchable high-pass instead of the -10db pad. I think the sensitivity is slightly reduced compared to the KM84. Here's some pics of the actual mic rather than the internet shot I posted earlier...
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Post by tonycamphd on Apr 1, 2016 22:50:50 GMT -6
They sounded very similar...I just listened on laptop...and I THOUGHT I heard a little difference in the top end occasionally, but that could have been any number of things. I'll listen on my monitors and see if I can guess where the changes are. But yes - they sound amazingly similar. You're right on John. There is a bit of a difference in the top end "zing" on a note here or there. I can consistently hear about 2-3 of the cuts, but the rest are transparent to me. There's also some "sub" LF waaaay down there on the 012's, but with the source material (ac gtr) you really can barely tell. Out in front of an orchestra, it's an easier differentiation. You'll hear the LF extension.... cept neither sound like an 84 IMO, so ?
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Post by wiz on Apr 1, 2016 23:32:52 GMT -6
At least I feel like SOMEONE listened to my constant dull rant.... ...Sm7 vocal....Sm81 acoustic.... Is it just me .. or is that bass so far away from the pocket? cheers Wiz
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Post by M57 on Apr 2, 2016 6:29:39 GMT -6
At least I feel like SOMEONE listened to my constant dull rant.... ...Sm7 vocal....Sm81 acoustic.... Is it just me .. or is that bass so far away from the pocket? cheers Wiz Sounds good to me.. maybe he plays in front just a tad, but the recording is live so it's not likely to be latency related.
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Post by drbill on Apr 2, 2016 10:37:31 GMT -6
You're right on John. There is a bit of a difference in the top end "zing" on a note here or there. I can consistently hear about 2-3 of the cuts, but the rest are transparent to me. There's also some "sub" LF waaaay down there on the 012's, but with the source material (ac gtr) you really can barely tell. Out in front of an orchestra, it's an easier differentiation. You'll hear the LF extension.... cept neither sound like an 84 IMO, so ? I know you like Taylor's, and this is a small bodied martin so ? Maybe it's my crappy engineering? LOL Al three of my 84's sound interchangeable. So to me, it definitely sounds like an 84.
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Post by tonycamphd on Apr 2, 2016 11:17:50 GMT -6
cept neither sound like an 84 IMO, so ? I know you like Taylor's, and this is a small bodied martin so ? Maybe it's my crappy engineering? LOL Al three of my 84's sound interchangeable. So to me, it definitely sounds like an 84. I don't want to get into it with you at all, but how do you come up with "you know I like Taylor's" from my statement? The point is, if you record a guitar that is lacking in frequency spectrum, then it doesn't show what either mic is truly capable of, especially in contrast to one another, EX. recording a telephone conversation with a C12. Btw, when i clear my seriously backlogged plate, i'll be building a pair of super modded MK012's, with new longer body tubes that will allow the best componentry to fit inside, that is one of the serious limitations of the MK012... space for the good stuff, but it can be overcome to become the best that it can be, though it will NOT ever sound like a KM84, nothing but a KM84 sounds like a KM84 IME. so mine is not an anti MK012 statement even at all, i likem.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 2, 2016 11:35:42 GMT -6
If you have $1,100 for a K84, I'd recommend you do yourself a favor, and try to hear the Soyuz 0-11. You still might prefer the 84, but you may not, the 0-11 is that good. I've used the K84 a lot, and they truly are all they're cracked up to be. That said, if you put an 84 and an 0-11 in front of me, I'd chose the 0-11 now. The 0-11 is more colored, but it's the color I've always tried to get for my acoustic sound. The 84 is quite colored too, but it's a beautiful thing, how an acoustic guitar done with it sits in a mix.
* I haven't used the 0-11 in any way other than as an acoustic guitar mic, so it's entirely possible the 84 might be better for some other uses, but again, entirely possible it isn't.
I just listened to a mic shootout yesterday with new Neumann's, a U-47 FET, U-87 AI, U-67 AI, and an M-147. The M-147 sells for, around $2,900, but I found two selling on eBay, one from a Guitar Center, for $1,399 and $1,499. I wish I had heard that mic first, before I started messing around with capsules and mods. At that price, it just kills anything else I've heard. I realize building, modding, tweaking can be fun, but for me, I usually only go there because what I really want is out of my price range. If I could buy back the time I spent researching, emailing manufacturers, sending away for parts, sending to have a mic modded, etc., I think I would have been much better off just saving up to buy it right the first time. I could have put all that time and energy into recording or writing, and probably gotten better results, or at the least, gotten more work done.
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Post by mikec on Apr 2, 2016 12:10:44 GMT -6
Thank for the feedback on the Soyuz 011 MJB. I am in the market for a stereo pair of SDCs primarily for recording acoustic guitar, resonator, mandolin, etc. and those are on my short list. I'd love to find a really clean pair of KM84s, but seems like all the ones I can find are beat to hell.
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Post by drbill on Apr 2, 2016 12:50:09 GMT -6
I know you like Taylor's, and this is a small bodied martin so ? Maybe it's my crappy engineering? LOL Al three of my 84's sound interchangeable. So to me, it definitely sounds like an 84. I don't want to get into it with you at all, but how do you come up with "you know I like Taylor's" from my statement? Not from that statement, but from previous statements about your Taylor that you love. I would agree 100% that the sound of that guitar is about as far from a typical sounding taylor as you can get. One size does not fit all as they say....
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Post by deehope on Apr 2, 2016 13:06:09 GMT -6
An 84 makes a great vocal mike as long as you don't eat it, use an SM81 shock mount and a foam windscreen. does the foam take away any of the detail? Have you ever compared a km84 to a kms84i on vocals?
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 2, 2016 13:31:18 GMT -6
Well, Tony, you had to know that "neither sounds like an 84" statement was gonna come off a little snarky...and so was the Taylor comment. So - we're even...let's move on.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Apr 2, 2016 16:43:09 GMT -6
Never used a KMS but I understand it doesn't sound as good as the 84 with the foam windscreen. I've tried popper-stoppers, etc. but they screw up the midrange. The hf loss from the foam is easily compensated with eq. Or just move the mike back leaving the screen off because its "reach" is incredible compared to most. I'm speaking of the Neumann screen and not the big round one.
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Post by rowmat on Apr 2, 2016 17:26:45 GMT -6
Never used a KMS but I understand it doesn't sound as good as the 84 with the foam windscreen. I've tried popper-stoppers, etc. but they screw up the midrange. The hf loss from the foam is easily compensated with eq. Or just move the mike back leaving the screen off because its "reach" is incredible compared to most. I'm speaking of the Neumann screen and not the big round one. Exactly. Before I got the KM84's I always unscrewed the basket from the KMS when recording. I remember years ago the first time I used it on a 12 string acoustic guitar. It was the first mic I had ever used that when you recorded an instrument, the recording sounded exactly like the instrument itself instead of something different. I'm still yet to find another SDC that I can say that about.
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Post by rowmat on Apr 2, 2016 17:35:14 GMT -6
An 84 makes a great vocal mike as long as you don't eat it, use an SM81 shock mount and a foam windscreen. does the foam take away any of the detail? Have you ever compared a km84 to a kms84i on vocals? Yes you lose a little but the top half of the basket unscrews leaving the capsule exposed as a KM84. (See photo)
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 2, 2016 17:38:32 GMT -6
What's a cheap foam screen that will fit. I reeeeally don't want to pay $25 for the Neumann one
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Apr 2, 2016 17:42:10 GMT -6
The cheap ones I tried took away more top end.
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Post by rowmat on Apr 2, 2016 18:02:31 GMT -6
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Post by drbill on Apr 2, 2016 18:28:18 GMT -6
The cheap ones I tried took away more top end. Hey Bob - given the choice, and all things like condition being equal - would you rather record vocals with a KM84 or a KM86? I just found a pair of 86's that I'm getting.... Thx. bp
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Apr 2, 2016 18:47:11 GMT -6
Sometimes figure-8 a bit farther away works better. Also 86s have a little more extreme low end.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Apr 2, 2016 19:17:00 GMT -6
What's a cheap foam screen that will fit. I reeeeally don't want to pay $25 for the Neumann one [br Try the generic 3/4 Windtech.
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Post by Shannon on Apr 3, 2016 2:21:15 GMT -6
John k, Randy , Jerome,and Dan so many more have told me that their is a big demand for them, now seeing this I believe. I am a believer hallelujah can I get a witness on a km54 y'all! looks like its the next project. I already bought the tooling and the material. The 251 project is gonna be closing shortly.
I would make coupling for the capsule. I.E. You could use the capsule on any SDC mic I would make it so that it screws on to the various different bodies. I think that would be kewl ? Thoughts ?
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Post by rowmat on Apr 3, 2016 2:41:15 GMT -6
John k, Randy , Jerome,and Dan so many more have told me that their is a big demand for them, now seeing this I believe. I am a believer hallelujah can I get a witness on a km54 y'all! looks like its the next project. I already bought the tooling and the material. The 251 project is gonna be closing shortly. I would make coupling for the capsule. I.E. You could use the capsule on any SDC mic I would make it so that it screws on to the various different bodies. I think that would be kewl ? Thoughts ? Er... don't you mean a KM84? I can forsee some difficulty recreating the KM54 with its nickel capsule, AC701 tube, transformer etc. In the meantime I'm definately interested in your 251 project as I need something to attach my recently arrived Tim Campbell CT12 capsule to
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Post by EmRR on Apr 3, 2016 8:31:52 GMT -6
Sometimes my KM-140's win over my MK-012, but I'm not apples to apples in that I don't ever use the MK-012 cardioid cap, only the omni. I haven't used a KM-84 in about 20 years, so I can't compare. The KM-140's easily have a hard shrill sound to them. When I last regularly used them over drums, I got to where they were almost always 60+ degrees off axis to tame the top, pointing out over the drums into the room. The MK-012 omni is certainly not shrill or hard, mine (4 capsules) all have a meaty softness to them. It usually wins acoustic bass overdub tests for best bottom and upper mid articulation. The large bottom pickup can be problematic with air movement noise, they pop very easily. The pair of bodies I had Sitler rebuild sound cleaner up top, but thinner and less meaty in the bottom. They are more like the treble of the KM-140, but with less bass clarity in comparison. They don't always win over the stock bodies. I got rid of Earthworks TC30K's years ago, my DPA 4060's always beat them. Didn't keep SM-81's terribly long either, or Nakamichi CM-300's. DPA 4060's get taped onto all sorts of instruments and stands, pretty funny on the end of a mic stand, looks like you forgot the mic. The boundary accessory is useful too, along with the HPF/48V adapter.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Apr 3, 2016 10:27:29 GMT -6
John k, Randy , Jerome,and Dan so many more have told me that their is a big demand for them, now seeing this I believe. I am a believer hallelujah can I get a witness on a km54 y'all! looks like its the next project. I already bought the tooling and the material. The 251 project is gonna be closing shortly. I would make coupling for the capsule. I.E. You could use the capsule on any SDC mic I would make it so that it screws on to the various different bodies. I think that would be kewl ? Thoughts ? I'd be interested in some form of km54. We have one and nothing beats it on acoustic instruments in the guitar, mando, banjo areas. Beautiful mic!
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Post by EmRR on Apr 3, 2016 10:46:38 GMT -6
I use ribbons over drums.
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