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Post by ragan on Feb 28, 2016 17:21:17 GMT -6
I think I've got a bit of the DIY bug coming on.
I want to build some stuff. Plus, I'm moving more towards analog processing and I don't have a big budget.
I don't have a great knowledge of electronics. I've never built any gear. I've made a lot of cables. I've swapped a lot of pickups/pots/switches/jacks/etc so I've spent a good amount of time soldering that kind of stuff. I'm a builder by trade (I flip houses) and I do carpentry, electrical, plumbing, etc. I don't know if any of that is very transferrable directly, but I'm used to working with materials and building things, which might help.
Anyway. Where the hell should I start? I want to build a Rev A 1176 but that maybe feels like a bit much to bite off? I habitually throw myself into things that are over my head and just sort of go slow, figure it out and get it done so I'm not really intimidated by it, but I don't want to be stupid and naive either.
Would a couple guitar pedals be a better place to start? I was browsing around BYOC and that stuff looks fun.
Anyone got any recommendations for me? Thanks in advance.
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Post by unit7 on Feb 28, 2016 17:57:27 GMT -6
I think you're more than good to go. For people not used to solder on PCB (not hard) DIYRE used to have a small practise kit, but I believe it's discontinued, so why not start with this instead: www.diyrecordingequipment.com/collections/for-beginners/products/safe-audio-interface-protector-kitWill probably come to use sooner or later, and soldering those 6 components will probably be enough practise. Hairball's build manuals are superb and educational so if you're not afraid of working with 120V units, and you don't start rushing things or being impatient you'll be fine! I think there's a lot of info here on what equipment you'll need: realgearonline.com/thread/419/started-diy-master-tools-listBut the short version is: Good soldering station (this is where I wouldn't save, even from the start), angled cutter, cable stripper, some kind of magnifying glass/light (can't work without my $10 visor), DMM (you could start w a cheap, but later you'll probably need RMS and HFE for measuring transistors), I also use my simple lead bender all the time, and since you are building stuff I guess you already own some kind of vise. You could probably wait with a desoldering gun until you get really hooked
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Post by ragan on Feb 28, 2016 18:12:02 GMT -6
I think you're more than good to go. For people not used to solder on PCB (not hard) DIYRE used to have a small practise kit, but I believe it's discontinued, so why not start with this instead: www.diyrecordingequipment.com/collections/for-beginners/products/safe-audio-interface-protector-kitWill probably come to use sooner or later, and soldering those 6 components will probably be enough practise. Hairball's build manuals are superb and educational so if you're not afraid of working with 120V units, and you don't start rushing things or being impatient you'll be fine! I think there's a lot of info here on what equipment you'll need: realgearonline.com/thread/419/started-diy-master-tools-listBut the short version is: Good soldering station (this is where I wouldn't save, even from the start), angled cutter, cable stripper, some kind of magnifying glass/light (can't work without my $10 visor), DMM (you could start w a cheap, but later you'll probably need RMS and HFE for measuring transistors), I also use my simple lead bender all the time, and since you are building stuff I guess you already own some kind of vise. You could probably wait with a desoldering gun until you get really hooked Thanks! I've got a decent Weller soldering station. I think it's 40 Watts, adjustable temp. The orange one you see everywhere for like $50-60. I bought that after I got fed up with the real cheapies. I've got a decent multimeter, lots of clamps, lights. I was just perusing that other tools thread. That's some really valuable stuff in there. I'm gonna order some of it. Thanks for the vote of confidence. I'm not "afraid of 120v units" that I know of. Should I be? I do electrical in remodeling a lot (I have a good friend that's an electrical contractor who taught me what I know). What do I need to watch out for as far as shock risk? Presumably something to do with the power transformer/supply? I guess I'm assuming if I follow the instructions very carefully, I should be alright? Edit: oh and glad you found a buyer for the U76. I kind of want the 19" classic blue stripe anyway, I guess just for aesthetic reasons so doing the Hairball seems like a good fit.
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Post by unit7 on Feb 28, 2016 18:52:37 GMT -6
I bought the same Weller almost 10 yrs ago and it worked until last summer. And re 120V, yeah, you're obviously much more confident than me with that. And again Hairball's build manuals are really ABC, and with your assembling skills you'll be fine! Check them out to get the feel for the build, first part here for the 1176 build: www.hairballaudio.com/blog/resources/post/welcome-to-diyYeah, go for the Hairball rev A, it's great! PM if you want it with carbon resistors. I saved a Mouser cart with all resistors in the audio path replaced with carbon ones.
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Post by ragan on Feb 28, 2016 19:05:59 GMT -6
I bought the same Weller almost 10 yrs ago and it worked until last summer. And re 120V, yeah, you're obviously much more confident than me with that. And again Hairball's build manuals are really ABC, and with your assembling skills you'll be fine! Check them out to get the feel for the build, first part here for the 1176 build: www.hairballaudio.com/blog/resources/post/welcome-to-diyYeah, go for the Hairball rev A, it's great! PM if you want it with carbon resistors. I saved a Mouser cart with all resistors in the audio path replaced with carbon ones. Yeah those are some really detailed and comprehensive instructions with a lot of context. My confidence is growing! Re: carbon resistors, are they preferrable? Do they add much cost?
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Feb 28, 2016 20:25:09 GMT -6
I don't think it could be said more strongly, but for DIY, nothing beats Jeff's VP26 kit or Colin's ez1073 kit as a first project. in the EZ1073 kit, all of the component leads are already cut and bent, and placed in individual labeled bags. You *literally* just pick a bag, and place the component. takes about 4 hours to build that ez1073 kit, because Colin did all the hard work with sorting/cutting!! Jeff's VP26 is great as a first kit because the component count is so LOW, other than the single opamp you need. note that I said VP26, not VP28. If this helps, here's my build thread for my two 500 series racks and all the modules that went into them. groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=46108.0 Part 1 (Total Newb!!) groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=49545.0 Part 2 (not a newb) I started from zero experience as well building gear and you can read about some of the troubles I had during my builds.
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Post by ragan on Feb 28, 2016 21:06:13 GMT -6
I don't think it could be said more strongly, but for DIY, nothing beats Jeff's VP26 kit or Colin's ez1073 kit as a first project. in the EZ1073 kit, all of the component leads are already cut and bent, and placed in individual labeled bags. You *literally* just pick a bag, and place the component. takes about 4 hours to build that ez1073 kit, because Colin did all the hard work with sorting/cutting!! Jeff's VP26 is great as a first kit because the component count is so LOW, other than the single opamp you need. note that I said VP26, not VP28. If this helps, here's my build thread for my two 500 series racks and all the modules that went into them. groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=46108.0 Part 1 (Total Newb!!) groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=49545.0 Part 2 (not a newb) I started from zero experience as well building gear and you can read about some of the troubles I had during my builds. This is great. I'm reading your threads now. The pics aren't there for me on my phone but I'll check on the iMac later. I'm sure the preamps are a much easier start but I kind of don't need any preamps at the moment. I do really want a Rev A though... I think I'm gonna go for it. If I get in over my head I can always annoy the piss out of ya'll until it's sorted out.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Feb 28, 2016 22:01:46 GMT -6
you'll run into issues with Calibrating those 1176s if you've never built anything. that's why I'd start with a build that doesn't need calibrating. Yeah, the pics are gone for me as well, because they're 3+ years old.
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Post by unit7 on Feb 29, 2016 0:44:18 GMT -6
you'll run into issues with Calibrating those 1176s if you've never built anything. that's why I'd start with a build that doesn't need calibrating. Yeah, the pics are gone for me as well, because they're 3+ years old. I'm with you that the HB 1176 is a bit steep as a first time build, but for a person that has soldering experience and is used to assemble stuff that takes days and need to be and look perfect (this kit has more of that than stuffing PCBs) I think Ragan is good to go. I lived in a big house until just recently and did a LOT of renovation myself, often together with professional builders like Ragan. There's new stuff coming all the time and the manuals you get are never as detailed as Mike's. I had two music students with far less skills than Ragan that asked me some really newb questions about DIY. Next time I heard they had jumped right into the HB 76 as their first builds, three of them, they took their time and no issues. One of them is into building a pair each of rev A and D. So in this case, counting in that Ragan said he was really into a rev A, I still say go! When I waited for my first HB kit I read the build manuals again and again until I found them boring, then read small sections 2-3 times before each build step. Didn't have a single issue with either of my rev A or D. I think the most demanding part was having patience getting all those pieces of Belden cable/shrink tubes good.. And re calibration, if you study the manual and get the picture before proceeding, and then check before and after every step, I don't get what's hard, and I don't know much about electronics..
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Post by ragan on Feb 29, 2016 0:57:06 GMT -6
you'll run into issues with Calibrating those 1176s if you've never built anything. that's why I'd start with a build that doesn't need calibrating. Yeah, the pics are gone for me as well, because they're 3+ years old. I'm with you that the HB 1176 is a bit steep as a first time build, but for a person that has soldering experience and is used to assemble stuff that takes days and need to be and look perfect (this kit has more of that than stuffing PCBs) I think Ragan is good to go. I lived in a big house until just recently and did a LOT of renovation myself, often together with professional builders like Ragan. There's new stuff coming all the time and the manuals you get are never as detailed as Mike's. I had two music students with far less skills than Ragan that asked me some really newb questions about DIY. Next time I heard they had jumped right into the HB 76 as their first builds, three of them, they took their time and no issues. One of them is into building a pair each of rev A and D. So in this case, counting in that Ragan said he was really into a rev A, I still say go! When I waited for my first HB kit I read the build manuals again and again until I found them boring, then read small sections 2-3 times before each build step. Didn't have a single issue with either of my rev A or D. I think the most demanding part was having patience getting all those pieces of Belden cable/shrink tubes good.. And re calibration, if you study the manual and get the picture before proceeding, and then check before and after every step, I don't get what's hard, and I don't know much about electronics.. Thanks again for the vote of confidence. The way I've learned the trade stuff that I do is to go slow and if there's anything foggy at all, find someone who knows more than me and ask them. Most people that have been doing something a long time are happy to share their knowledge, at least in my experience. After awhile, you're not slow anymore and people with less experience are asking you for advice. What's the hard part about calibrating? I assume it's outlined in the Hairball literature? I guess I look at it methodically. There's got to be a tool to do it and a way to use the tool. If I don't have the tool I'll buy it and if I don't understand how to use it, I'll ask someone who does understand. I don't expect it to go fast but I think I can get it built. Sounds really fun to me.
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Post by unit7 on Feb 29, 2016 1:09:26 GMT -6
Re: carbon resistors, are they preferrable? Do they add much cost? I haven't A/B'd but some say that they add some ehhh colour Not sure, but I believe that this was the kind of resistors used in the original rev A. Don't know if it's more expensive. Could even be cheaper because you're not paying for HB putting a complete kit together for you. You'd have to buy the 'Bare bones' version of this kit and then add bits and pieces yourself. Thinking of it, for a first time build this could create problems more than the build itself.. And I just checked the BOM for the rev A at HB and it seems that they are using a few carbon resistors anyway, so perhaps you should get the complete kit after all.
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Post by unit7 on Feb 29, 2016 1:21:43 GMT -6
The combo of the therapy when building, gear love and the reward putting audio thru something you've built and liking what you hear is hard to beat.
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Post by tonycamphd on Feb 29, 2016 9:22:10 GMT -6
there is a sticky page on this diy forum showing all kinds of tools, you cannot go wrong with the capi pre's, JS's kits are rock solid, and the support is great, and the results are fantastic! my first diy project was building the SCA kits a while back, then i went nutz into capi stuff, and modding stuff, hairball, serpent, etc... you just surf GDIY and you'll find a ton off good info, don't even consider the EZF760 though, it stands as my only expensive failure to date...
good luck, you can do it Ragan!!
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Post by rocinante on Feb 29, 2016 9:52:17 GMT -6
Oh Ragan you are gonna love it. Building DIY recording gear uses an interesting creative/academic part of your brain. I believe its the same part that crafts songs but that's just my own theory. The whole enchilada though is great. The advice you have received is top notch and I'll echo everyone else in saying definitely start with CAPI. It introduces you to what is what in a clear and concise way. I'd move on to a G-SSL or a Hairball 1176 next personally because I think they teach you a lot and you have to source your own parts which I think teaches you more than most will admit. The Hairball comes with guides while the GSSL has probably one of the largest support threads online. You could literally spend hours just perusing GDIY threads and get a glimpse at the projects people have taken on. Some are just jaw dropping and there are a lot of them. Holgers Krassemaschine is a wondeerful example which is an unbelievably ambitious 12 channel tube based mixer that won a mixing contest when put against a 56 channel SSL 9000. Look up Holger Krassmachine and I think you will understand. Others have built 1081's from scratch. I literally mean they etched the pcb's at home and sourced every NOS part to make a clone. Very cool stuff. And then you have here. Where i think you can feel free to ask away anything. I took a year long sabbatical to build and learn. I sold off more than half of my factory made gear in favor of the stuff I built. In all honestly mine in many cases was made better. I know what parts I used and that makes a difference. Which is a really good point. Don't skimp on anything DIY. Just buy the one suggested. and remember most of all its fun.
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Post by rocinante on Feb 29, 2016 10:14:14 GMT -6
Another great project that comes to mind is the GML clone that Unit 7 built by Don Classics which i so envy and will be buying very soon here. All of the Don Classics stuff is phenomenal and can be put against anything by any of the big boys we all love. That GML though... Tha's something special. I have seriously wanted one for 10 plus years but its always been out of my budget. Now, that shit is mine.
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 29, 2016 15:54:43 GMT -6
Hmm,, with you love of mikes,, have you thought about one of the 251 projects ?
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Post by ragan on Feb 29, 2016 16:55:38 GMT -6
Hmm,, with you love of mikes,, have you thought about one of the 251 projects ? Since stocking up on 3U Audio stuff, I'm actually feeling pretty good about my mic locker. And the mics that 3U gear allowed me to sell off let me buy other gear with the profit. I also just got a good specimen of an Oktava MKL2500 and removed the inner mesh of the headbasket and cut out the resonator discs. It sounds really nice! Kind of 47ish but with its own vibe. Amazing on acoustic guitar. I've got some tube options on the way from Christian Wittmore (along with a nice NOS Mullard EF86 for my Dr Z). For now I'm more lusting after hardware : ) Just got everything wired up to my patchbays and there are too many empty jacks... Even if it's not the easiest starting point, I'm mostly decided on the Hairball Rev A.
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 29, 2016 17:22:36 GMT -6
Hairball , what a hair brain idea, you must be a drummer !
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Post by ragan on Mar 1, 2016 11:44:27 GMT -6
unit7Are the 500 series Hairball Rev A's harder to build because of the tight quarters? I'm considering a pair of them. Anyone know how they compare sonically to the 19" rack version?
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Post by tonycamphd on Mar 1, 2016 12:03:18 GMT -6
Hmm,, with you love of mikes,, have you thought about one of the 251 projects ? Since stocking up on 3U Audio stuff, I'm actually feeling pretty good about my mic locker. And the mics that 3U gear allowed me to sell off let me buy other gear with the profit. I also just got a good specimen of an Oktava MKL2500 and removed the inner mesh of the headbasket and cut out the resonator discs. It sounds really nice! Kind of 47ish but with its own vibe. Amazing on acoustic guitar. I've got some tube options on the way from Christian Wittmore (along with a nice NOS Mullard EF86 for my Dr Z). For now I'm more lusting after hardware : ) Just got everything wired up to my patchbays and there are too many empty jacks... Even if it's not the easiest starting point, I'm mostly decided on the Hairball Rev A. Not to rain on your effort, but a warning, I modded one of these as far as you can take it, i even put a tube socket in it to swap tubes, it never approached a U47 in it's performance or sound, and was so lurchy in it's dynamics that it was begging for a completely new PSU just to possibly give it reasonable performance on a moderately dynamic source, the removal of the inner mesh will also make it more susceptible to plosives and dynamic failures, an acoustic guitar at 2' off the 12th fret may be one of the only viable sources to record with this mic, unless you're looking for a paper flat image from a very small dynamic source, thats is my experience, it's possible that maybe i started with a crappy unit?
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Post by tonycamphd on Mar 1, 2016 12:06:47 GMT -6
unit7 Are the 500 series Hairball Rev A's harder to build because of the tight quarters? I'm considering a pair of them. Anyone know how they compare sonically to the 19" rack version? they are for all intents and purposes the same, there are available component choices that can be introduced that will change/improve the sound for you, the FET's are of critical importance, they are next to impossible to find, if you want a serious unit, i'd go with the hairball, build it, then send it to dandeurloo for him to mod/dial it in for you, he has a host of well thoughtout and tested tricks that take things to a different level.
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Post by ragan on Mar 1, 2016 12:57:40 GMT -6
Since stocking up on 3U Audio stuff, I'm actually feeling pretty good about my mic locker. And the mics that 3U gear allowed me to sell off let me buy other gear with the profit. I also just got a good specimen of an Oktava MKL2500 and removed the inner mesh of the headbasket and cut out the resonator discs. It sounds really nice! Kind of 47ish but with its own vibe. Amazing on acoustic guitar. I've got some tube options on the way from Christian Wittmore (along with a nice NOS Mullard EF86 for my Dr Z). For now I'm more lusting after hardware : ) Just got everything wired up to my patchbays and there are too many empty jacks... Even if it's not the easiest starting point, I'm mostly decided on the Hairball Rev A. Not to rain on your effort, but a warning, I modded one of these as far as you can take it, i even put a tube socket in it to swap tubes, it never approached a U47 in it's performance or sound, and was so lurchy in it's dynamics that it was begging for a completely new PSU just to possibly give it reasonable performance on a moderately dynamic source, the removal of the inner mesh will also make it more susceptible to plosives and dynamic failures, an acoustic guitar at 2' off the 12th fret may be one of the only viable sources to record with this mic, unless you're looking for a paper flat image from a very small dynamic source, thats is my experience, it's possible that maybe i started with a crappy unit? Heheh. Yes I know it's not a 47. I only meant that as a jump off point, meaning it's a center terminated, transformer coupled mic that's mid forward with a soft(ish) top. I got it for $149 so I'm not looking for the moon. Not worried about plosives, I use a windscreen and they're fine (though I'm not gonna track my vocals with it). I've had a few Joly modded mics and so I'm familiar with the single layer headbasket game (which, you're right, can be touchy). I'll likely only use it on acoustic guitar. Actually there are a couple spots where a 219 shines on a drum kit as an accent/color/kit mic that I bet this will do well on (same capsule). I wonder if you have a Chinese power supply? Maybe you know the story but the UK distributor went behind Oktava's back and had some PSU's made that were noisy and problematic. Lots of info out there on identifying them. But also, Oktava is known for inconsistency. You may just have a bad one and I may just have a good one.
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Post by ragan on Mar 1, 2016 12:58:56 GMT -6
unit7 Are the 500 series Hairball Rev A's harder to build because of the tight quarters? I'm considering a pair of them. Anyone know how they compare sonically to the 19" rack version? they are for all intents and purposes the same, there are available component choices that can be introduced that will change/improve the sound for you, the FET's are of critical importance, they are next to impossible to find, if you want a serious unit, i'd go with the hairball, build it, then send it to dandeurloo for him to mod/dial it in for you, he has a host of well thoughtout and tested tricks that take things to a different level. Good info. Thanks.
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Post by mulmany on Mar 1, 2016 14:07:38 GMT -6
As a beginner, I would go with the rack unit. I just finished a hairball 500 rev d and though it's not terribly complicated, the led meter adds some fun. Calibration is also a labor of patients!
The La500a would also be a good starter. We have a decent exchange rate right now with Australia.
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Post by ragan on Mar 1, 2016 14:13:41 GMT -6
As a beginner, I would go with the rack unit. I just finished a hairball 500 rev d and though it's not terribly complicated, the led meter adds some fun. Calibration is also a labor of patients! The La500a would also be a good starter. We have a decent exchange rate right now with Australia. Yeah I figure it's probably trickier in that tighter space. Thing is I'm thinking of getting another Harrison 32c and that will leave two slots in my 500 rack and I'd be using the pair of Harrisons and pair of Rev A together all the time so it just feels tidy! I'm also out of 19" rack space, though I could build another rack cab. I love the classic 19" 1176 form factor, but for space reasons it would be more practical for me to fill up those last 500 slots. Or not. Tough call.
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