Dave Ramsey on Obamacare

I'm going to pull out of this conversation because it's starting to piss me off, but you don't think the government is not attempting to exert strong directive influence? There are members of one party - and Obama that would Nationalize everything in their paths if not for a Republican controlled Congress.

"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem." - Ronald Reagan

And I think you're still confusing the hell out of Libertarians and someone else, like the NeoConservatives.  What you see on the news is completely misleading.  There are NO Libertarians in congress right now.  Don't be fooled by those who claim to lean that way, because they don't represent the true Libertarians.

I picked Estonia off the top of my head because I needed an example of a country that doesn't have a Constitution such as ours. Disrespectful arrogance sounds more like that asshole libtard in the Oval Office.

agreed, Ron Paul says a few things that make you think, hmmm pretty good, then he says wwhhaaa baaaashhh! and you say yikes lol

I like Ron Paul. He's one of the few that has his heart in the right place. He just has some pretty extreme ideas though. His son, Rand, is more realistic but still has a few very Republican views. I'd like to see a true Libertarian come up through the ranks but so far, only a few have made it to the first steps of the ladder. Unfortunately, both the Republicrats and the Demopublicans are horrified by the thought of a 3rd party threatening their way of life. Imagine a government who works for the people instead of using the people for political gain.. it would be the end for those two parties as we know them.

I think most people are inherently Libertarian at their cores. They know they should save money. They know they should allow other people to live as they want. It's just that years of media exposure and/or parental "guidance" that teach them the false theory that the "other side" is at fault for everything that ails them and they should point fingers and blame as much as they can. At one point, we as humans learned it was wrong to enslave others. We then learned it was wrong to treat women as objects. We've recently learned that gay people should have rights just like any other people. Pretty soon we'll learn that controlling others through excessive government laws is nothing short of disallowing people to live as they wish.

What ever happened to personal responsibility and taking care of your own? I won't complain about the rich for taking advantage of others, or denigrate the poor for complaining about "the Man" and using that excuse to not do anything about their plight on their own, but at some point, people should be responsible for their own actions.

"a Constitution that clearly says we cannot be forced to do anything" is exactly the reason why America is considered retarded. Totally recessive, backwards and so obsessed with this absurd concept of freedom when it doesn't even understand it.

Context: The constitution was wrote during a time were short life expectancy, pestilence, suffrage exclusively for the rich, religious conservatism etc. were de-facto norms. Their vision of the future was a time in which a man could put oil in his lamp at 6 am, take the kids by horse to school, talk to his governor in town and go work an 80 hour week without fear of bandits or sudden tax hikes.

You live in a very different world now. To look at a document from a given time and quote it out of context is childish and pathetic. It enshrines freedom, but freedom had a different definition then. People saw it as the freedom of assembly, to organize themselves into interest groups etc. It was the freedom to collectively organize a life for themselves much better than what they had under monarchical imperialism - a life the community could carve out in an act of true deterministic action.

It wasn't the freedom to sit at home and dribble cheese sauce on your chest, pay no income tax, own 4 assault rifles, join the church of Scientology and demand that your school change the text-books to omit evolution because "It's a theory" . The reason being is that none of that actually enables you with any tangible liberty. Owning guns is a responsibility, not a freedom, paying no income tax would mean you would have no services. There is consequence for all of this that no Libertarian will acknowledge. It is the concept of individualism run amok to a sort of idealistic extreme where it's a wonder you're not jailing parents for sending kids to bed at night. Society has to resign certain things for collective freedom - that's not "robbing people of freedoms". You are free to become rich enough to buy your own island and start a country. But the individual does not outweigh the collective and he has a social debt to pay for the benefits of living in a civil society.

And @ Svart, unless you're using Noam Chomsky's definition of European Libertarianism (And I doubt you were) then you're totally confused by your idealism. There are no Neo-Con's anymore because it's hard to market hard-conservatism. Neo Liberals and Libertarians do it much better because it's more of a wolf in sheep's clothing thing.

Side note: Estonia is a parliamentary democracy by constitution (oh yeah, hard to believe), has a neoliberal economy, is part of the European Union and the NATO. "cough".
This here is too american for me.
If i would post my thoughts about that, i most probably would be called a "communist"...
You are very lax with the usage of some words....facism...communism...socialism...from my perspective, without knowing what these words really mean.
Over and out at this point......;-)

Sorry, had to come back to post this disgusting piece, Eddie fucking munster's lying, misleading, tribalistic demagoguery at it's most retarded, straight from Bullshit Mountain. Really shameful and absolutely void of any morality what so ever, this shit is pure evil!!!

www.salon.com/2013/10/18/inside_the_fox_news_lie_machine_i_fact_checked_sean_hannity_on_obamacare/

There is no far left, there is this new triangulation from the center, I am indeed a centrist, but in the current climate, i considered a flaming liberal, wtf??? I drive a big truck and love football for crying out loud!

I checked the claims myself, it is factual what the guy who wrote the article said, it's very very easily looked up. I hate the false equivalency that is often thrown around, i don't like either source, but calling fox news and msnbc one in the same, is patently ridiculous, fox news is a provably misleading lie machine, msnbc is a democrats bastion, but they hold a much stronger regard for facts and substantive truth telling, so in reality, one is a lame, but the other is totally evil, for lack of better terms, but they are certainly not opposites of the same. Journalism in the USA has become an absolute FAIL!

Why do you guys like to let a bunch of talking heads tell you what to think?