|
|
Post by rocinante on Dec 8, 2015 1:48:52 GMT -6
This took me too long but in the end I learned so much it was hardly a waste of any time. I started out wanting to clone the Helios 69 mic pre and eq for several reasons. For one; If you have heard instruments (especially acoustic and electric guitars) through the Helios 69 you know it's got a thing all its own. Not Neve or API. It's raw but warm. Smooth but not transparent. Powerful but not punchy. Something good. Something different. The EQ is magic. Many months ago using the pcb's designed by Ian Thompson Bell of Ruff Records I built 2 dual channel Helios 69 eq's. One was a solid state using a DOA gain stage while the other had a tube gain stage. Both are used in the studio all the time and I just love them on everything. Eventually it got me intrigued by the Helios pre amp and while digging around the internet I had found not many people had cloned Helio's. I had also wanted to learn more about pre amp design and looking at the schematics the Helios seemed like something I could wrap my head around. As you might know, no two Helios modules are alike. That's because Dick Swettenham hand made them. There's so much info on the web about Helios I need not reiterate what you can easily look up if you are interested but I will say this; researching the Helios 69 was like taking a course in 'rock audio engineering history' and through research I got to have some great conversations with some really great and interesting people. The stories were many and often enjoyable. Like many others for awhile there I became obsessed and gathered everything I could about the Helios 69. Obviously GroupDIY held the largest portion of info and with help from the members there I redrew the 2128 and the 22113 cards using the various schematic I found online. I also eventually relaxed and decided i didn't need to clone it exactly and that I could have a little fun incorporating different features into it. For one I decided to use an output transformer (helios 69's don't have output xfmrs). I also used a trim attenuator in hopes to narrow in the gain. For the transformers I used Cinemag cmmi-10c input transformer and a cmoq2s in the output. Although Sowter makes a clone of the lustraphone (which is what the Helios originally had) I really like Cinemag's in my other pieces and David from Cinemag is just an all around nice dude and had been super helpful. Anyways after months of putzing around I finally finished one of them. I plan to built two more preamp eq's and then possibly a 4 channel preamp. I still need to tighten up the wiring and I'm gonna put the next one in a smaller case but overall it really is a pretty bad ass mic preamp and I'm definitely satisfied. I have to say Ian's 69 EQ is a large portion of the magic and I usually keep it engaged when using the mic pre. I'm still testing it out on stuff but so far so good. Cheers Dylan      Helios 69 mic pre/eq with dual channel D-Pultec PM-EQP-2A and tube driven Helios 69 dual channel EQ.  |
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Dec 8, 2015 9:29:03 GMT -6
So friggin cool! Never even used a Helios. Right or wrong, I always attribute that stoney hypnotic zep/stones vibe to the Helios stuff, seem right to u?
|
|
|
|
Post by rocinante on Dec 8, 2015 11:52:11 GMT -6
Yep. I read 'woody' somewhere and for some reason that's it. The 'bass' and 'mid' on the filters are really my favorite parts. It's thick like Neve but has that API rawness. It's definitely an effect. Oh yeah and don't forget Pink Floyd also used s Helios. I think one of the more interesting aspects is that there weren't that many made so if one owned an original module more than likely several platinum albums had been mixed through it. Oh and on a side note I did not source the original transistors but used their modern equivalents and in some cases the modern were 'better' spec'd or had more to offer which imho equals better.
|
|
|
|
Post by rocinante on Dec 8, 2015 12:15:23 GMT -6
A good reference is the twelve string guitar on 'stairway to heaven'. That was tracked via mic through helios. I read that zepellin also went DI with a few of their guitars for that album. I've played around with the distortion and its definitely cool. Distorting acoustic guitars has had a cool effect. I haven't recorded anything where I'm experimenting like that but I definitely will.
|
|
|
|
Post by yotonic on Dec 8, 2015 14:36:04 GMT -6
That's real nice! RoundBadge had a pair of original Helios in the classifieds that looked nice.
|
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Dec 8, 2015 18:01:15 GMT -6
That's awesome! I've often wondered what the reissues would sound like with an output tranny. I've always had at least one reissue, but I'm without one right now...I'm gonna break down and get another. BTW - how is the headroom on your unit? It's pretty awful in the reissues - and the distortion is NOT pleasing. But man, when you get the gain staging right, it's so sweet.
|
|
|
|
Post by rocinante on Dec 9, 2015 2:40:13 GMT -6
I suppose like all helios I'll have to be a little more careful as it does seem narrower than some of my other preamps but so far its definitely not been a problem. I'm sure running it at 32v helped considerably. I guess its part of the helios character.
|
|
|
|
Post by rocinante on Dec 9, 2015 12:15:24 GMT -6
Has anyone used realios? I talked with Dave briefly about transistor equivalents. How's the headroom on his version, anyone know?
|
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Dec 9, 2015 12:36:03 GMT -6
Seems like if you change the headroom, you've built something else.
|
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Dec 9, 2015 19:14:42 GMT -6
Touche
|
|
|
|
Post by rocinante on Dec 10, 2015 0:51:34 GMT -6
Seems like if you change the headroom, you've built something else. And that's just it! I believe it's part of the sound of the unit. I do not feel like its limited or that I ever need to track something that would have me at all concerned. As we all know it's a colorful preamp. And I just so happen to like the color. |
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Dec 10, 2015 9:09:24 GMT -6
I'm not familiar with this circuit, but would assume like most of what came before it's time it is designed with less headroom than we expect today. With pink noise, at what input level do they overload? What maximum output do you get?
|
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Dec 10, 2015 11:35:48 GMT -6
if i was absurdly rich with $ instead of personality  haha, i'd find every picture and historical document i could of the stones mobile unit, and rebuild it to the letter, then i'd buy headley grange manor and set up my drumset in the stone hallway, then i'd record when the levee breaks, then i'd listen back and be sad because i STILL don't sound like Bonzo! dammit!!! |
|
|
|
Post by rocinante on Dec 11, 2015 0:33:21 GMT -6
I'm not familiar with this circuit, but would assume like most of what came before it's time it is designed with less headroom than we expect today. With pink noise, at what input level do they overload? What maximum output do you get? It's racked right now and in use so I'll have to retest it later or find my notes. Iirc it was not bad (edit: notes here say 18 db??; sound right?) but as this was my first completely from the ground up preamp clone i am not entirely sure how accurate my tests were to begin with. Basically i did every test i could find online and wrote down the numbers but boy did they vary and after awhile i set the feedback resistor to 680r as per the schematic, liked what i heard,felt it was a decent range and called it good for now. So not very scientific I know but well... 'God damn it Jim I'm a musician not a scientist!' |
|
|
|
Post by rocinante on Dec 11, 2015 21:34:19 GMT -6
if i was absurdly rich with $ instead of personality haha, i'd find every picture and historical document i could of the stones mobile unit, and rebuild it to the letter, then i'd buy headley grange manor and set up my drumset in the stone hallway, then i'd record when the levee breaks, then i'd listen back and be sad because i STILL don't sound like Bonzo! dammit!!! I'll have to disagree with you there comrade This:  Is what I'd use my money on. I told my pops it reminded me of 'What satan would use to mix bands if his studio was on the Enterprise.' I think Dave Amel's reworked it. Breathtaking regardless. |
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Dec 11, 2015 21:45:14 GMT -6
if i was absurdly rich with $ instead of personality haha, i'd find every picture and historical document i could of the stones mobile unit, and rebuild it to the letter, then i'd buy headley grange manor and set up my drumset in the stone hallway, then i'd record when the levee breaks, then i'd listen back and be sad because i STILL don't sound like Bonzo! dammit!!! I'll have to disagree with you there comrade This: Is what I'd use my money on. I told my pops it reminded me of 'What satan would use to mix bands if his studio was on the Enterprise.' I think Dave Amel's reworked it. Breathtaking regardless. H o l y S h i t !!!!! that is amazing!!! No wonder those records sounded the way they did, they actually sound the way that looks!! |
|
|
|
Post by pahstah on Dec 15, 2015 9:41:23 GMT -6
Nice work Rocinante! I did my version of helios with this build:  its an helios eq section along with an a*p*i* mic/line input. Now I've ordered an input transformer from sowter to create a closer clone of the real thing but I think I'll use an that 1646 as output buffer with the choice to skip it an go unbalanced out. |
|
|
|
Post by rocinante on Dec 15, 2015 15:40:45 GMT -6
Very awesome. How many did you do? Is it part of a console?? Can we see the front?
I debated using an api gain stage with 2520 how do you like it?
As im sure you know igor had worked on it and had a few of his version of the 2128 but changed it to the neve gain stage.
I have ramshackle recordings helios pcb here which im gonna make it switchable 'helios vintage/op amp modern'
You did a real pro job man. Ill say it again; awesome.
|
|
|
|
Post by rocinante on Dec 15, 2015 15:42:27 GMT -6
Oh i see you are using two 500 racks stacked on top of each other. That's really awesome man.
|
|
|
|
Post by rocinante on Dec 15, 2015 22:29:29 GMT -6
Going back to this (cause its impressive) you're building a whole console huh?
That's quite an epic undertaking.
|
|
|
|
Post by pahstah on Dec 16, 2015 3:02:02 GMT -6
 Here you can see the front of the double 500 bucket, it can host two 500 series modules or a double500 module. I did these double500 modules so I could put in the same unit a preamp and eq. the two on the left are 1073 and the others are the aphelios. On the right you see the control room with aux returns. |
|
|
|
Post by pahstah on Dec 16, 2015 3:11:22 GMT -6
A wider view of the console:  Its an a*p*i* fader channel with 6 auxes and 4 groups ( switchable 8 to 8 groups provided that you ha 8 group master channels). master section is 2 stereo groups with stereo insert post summing but pre fader, one master bus with insert post summing but pre fader. it can be expanded to 16 channels. it has 6 aux sends. in the control room you have a master attenuator, fpm/afl non destructive solo, mono, dim, alt speaker, 2track in1, 2track in2, basic oscillator, talkback, 4 mono aux returns and 2 stereo aux returns. pretty basic but useful. i consider it a good console for tracking. Paolo |
|
|
|
Post by rocinante on Dec 16, 2015 9:42:42 GMT -6
Excellent work there sir. Where did you get the metal work done, if you don't mind me asking?
I love the double bucket and the 1073s and 69s that span both. That's just awesome. Have you considered automation? You obviously had the pcb's made and they look slick. This looks pro and actually doable. Again my hat goes off to you. Bravo.
|
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Dec 16, 2015 10:03:10 GMT -6
I wholeheartedly approve of the hand labeled look. I got so much grief selling re-racked preamps years ago for that approach, and there's a whole subset of consumer psychology dedicated to the cosmetic factors that people deem 'correct'. MUST BE BUILT BY ROBOTS, NOT PEOPLE! Not really.
|
|
|
|
Post by pahstah on Dec 16, 2015 14:38:17 GMT -6
Thank you Rocinante, i've spent two years making this console. The metalwork is made by schaeffer in berlin. It's been a really great effort, but i'm seeing the end of it. Everything works fine. The console is still in the "lab" after i've done a quick mix of a song from Fab Dupont's puremix site. The song is called Oh Baby and was recorded by Fab during a mixfest, i think you can find something about it on YouTube, however.. It suited well the console test since it has only seven tracks. You can find the mix here:
https%3A//soundcloud.com/paolo-stabellini/gearfest-puremix-contest-oh-baby-console
And a quick video no YouTube:
|
|
haha, i'd find every picture and historical document i could of the stones mobile unit, and rebuild it to the letter, then i'd buy headley grange manor and set up my drumset in the stone hallway, then i'd record when the levee breaks, then i'd listen back and be sad because i STILL don't sound like Bonzo! dammit!!!
