|
|
Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 13, 2015 21:41:43 GMT -6
...scary stuff. I hope all of you, your friends, and family are OK.
|
|
|
|
Post by odyssey76 on Nov 14, 2015 4:45:00 GMT -6
Horrendous events. Very sad day indeed......
|
|
|
|
Post by mobeach on Nov 14, 2015 8:03:53 GMT -6
It's hard to comment without venting, so I'll just say my thoughts prayers are with them.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Nov 14, 2015 8:57:59 GMT -6
The solution has to start with the 'good muslims' denouncing the terrorists and their heinous acts. until this happens, nothing will change. When the terrorists who feed off the teat of Islamic kindness are cut off and no longer accepted by their own people, then they'll start to change their ways. Until then, we have to fight evil.
|
|
|
|
Post by mobeach on Nov 14, 2015 9:30:35 GMT -6
The solution has to start with the 'good muslims' denouncing the terrorists and their heinous acts. until this happens, nothing will change. When the terrorists who feed off the teat of Islamic kindness are cut off and no longer accepted by their own people, then they'll start to change their ways. Until then, we have to fight evil. Exactly, we had no issues calling Westboro Baptist Church members, extremists. But even there, they didn't kill people, big difference between protesting and killing. |
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Nov 14, 2015 16:24:51 GMT -6
One of my favourite take aways here in Berlin is operatd by Iraq people. We are all shocked. I do hope that Europe is not going to answer with more bombs. To me the soloution starts with breaking the bread with muslims. Inviteing them, cooking for them, talking and laughing with them. Everybody can do something.
|
|
|
|
Post by mobeach on Nov 14, 2015 17:07:45 GMT -6
One of my favourite take aways here in Berlin is operatd by Iraq people. We are all shocked. I do hope that Europe is not going to answer with more bombs. To me the soloution starts with breaking the bread with muslims. Inviteing them, cooking for them, talking and laughing with them. Everybody can do something. From what I've been seeing several countries invited them, fed them, gave them medical attention through their social programs, then they got repaid with bullets and grenades. The want the west dead, period. |
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Nov 14, 2015 17:33:01 GMT -6
One of my favourite take aways here in Berlin is operatd by Iraq people. We are all shocked. I do hope that Europe is not going to answer with more bombs. To me the soloution starts with breaking the bread with muslims. Inviteing them, cooking for them, talking and laughing with them. Everybody can do something. They're hell bent on destroying or assimilating the west, good luck with that. At least for the EU thats is not true. I have Turkish friends and we never had any problems that we have a diffrent religion. All EU muslim unions said today that there is no excuse for those attacks and that it has nothing to do with thier believes. Yes I do think the world gets a better place if we try to overcome some of our biased opinions. At least I wont give up to talk to humans of all nations, as long as God is taking me off the game pad. IS Terrorists are bumfucked if we have good muslims as friends. |
|
|
|
Post by Bob Olhsson on Nov 14, 2015 18:47:28 GMT -6
The solution has to start with the 'good muslims' denouncing the terrorists and their heinous acts. until this happens, nothing will change. When the terrorists who feed off the teat of Islamic kindness are cut off and no longer accepted by their own people, then they'll start to change their ways. Until then, we have to fight evil. A lot of Muslims have been speaking out and condemning this act of terrorism along with all the rest. Unfortunately they get remarkably little coverage because it apparently isn't entertaining enough for the American "press." |
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Nov 14, 2015 19:19:25 GMT -6
The solution has to start with the 'good muslims' denouncing the terrorists and their heinous acts. until this happens, nothing will change. When the terrorists who feed off the teat of Islamic kindness are cut off and no longer accepted by their own people, then they'll start to change their ways. Until then, we have to fight evil. A lot of Muslims have been speaking out and condemning this act of terrorism along with all the rest. Unfortunately they get remarkably little coverage because it apparently isn't entertaining enough for the American "press." True and if the fear of taking over the western world would be real, now is the chance my country, Germany, took 1 Milion refuges fron Syria. Most of them muslims. The opposite is the case those refuges escape from Terror. In the long run there is no substitue for peace.... |
|
|
|
Post by Bob Olhsson on Nov 14, 2015 19:24:33 GMT -6
These were probably all French citizens.
|
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Nov 14, 2015 19:30:57 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by swurveman on Nov 15, 2015 9:32:12 GMT -6
This is a "be careful what you wish for" scenario. American foreign policy blunders have brought out the worst situation. We destroyed two Baathist nations- Iraq by invading it and letting it disintegrate and Syria by not protecting it. This is a "be careful what you wish for" scenario. Hussein and Assad may have been strongmen who did cruel things, but they're looking pretty good now compared to the religious fanatics that have filled the void that is spreading into Europe.
It's complicated and there's lots of history behind this, but there was a lot of wishful thinking and mistaken policy outcomes in this mess in the past 14 years. The scary thing is who do you trust to solve the problem? We used to have realists making our foreign policy decisions. Now, we have a lot of misinformed idealists. It's a mess.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2015 9:06:29 GMT -6
It's hard to comment on this topic without breaking the "no politics" rule, but since everyone stays very reasonable and there is a shocking and emotional event behind it, i guess it is totally ok....
There is no excuse for terror. This is not war (as said by the IS), it is just murder. They did not fight military targets or facilities but civilians.
There is little that can be done against terror. No matter how much you extend surveilliance, terrorists will find ways to communicate, plan terror acts and operate under the radar. Obviously. Nobody saw this coming, and freedom of all has been cut by the surveillance by the intelligence agencies of all western countries, with extreme efforts. Since more than a decade.
So we in germany may have no other chance as to try to stay beeing open and friendly with our muslim neighbors, turkish friends, refugees that became german citizens and the refugees that come to us fleeing from this terror in their homelands right now.
I hope our politicians stay calm and reasonable in this troublesome times.
I hope we stay out of the focus of the terrorist attacks at the moment because of the diplomatic and friendly carefulness we had in the past and hopefully in future.
France had a higher risk as germany, may it be due to the more open racism and antiislamic and antisemite attitude in the country and in inner politics, and because the are actively involved in the war against IS.
Some had already dark visions of a third world war.
This would be the least what the world needs. We must not let terror dictate our feelings, our thinking and our acting. Terrorists are criminals. In all religions. Period. Whoever does terrorist acts in the name of a god is already acting against the fundamental ideas behind all of the big religions, no matter if muslim, christ or jew, hindu or buddhist...
The vast majority, the utmost majority of people of all religions want peace and condemn these actions. They have nothing to do with religion. It is a criminal act, politically motivated terror of delusioned extremists, murder, and nothing else.
What you obtained with violence you can only keep with violence. (Ghandi, afaik)
Or simply said - it does not make sense in any context.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bob Olhsson on Nov 16, 2015 10:29:35 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by mobeach on Nov 16, 2015 10:53:53 GMT -6
Some cultures just don't have respect for human life, it has nothing to do with religion. Religion is simply their crutch to lean on. I mean, how can you cut off someones head then be offended by cartoons? That's so 5th grade..
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2015 11:00:00 GMT -6
Great song.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2015 11:06:16 GMT -6
Yes, it's never the religion, it's about power and uses a delusional interpretation of a religion. You can do exactly the same with christian religion.
Not historical. Today. If you don't believe, google Lord's Resistance Army.
|
|
|
|
Post by jazznoise on Nov 16, 2015 14:31:56 GMT -6
I think it says a lot about how different European societies treat Arab immigrants. Ireland, Spain, Germany, Sweden and many other European countries have hundreds of thousands of Arab immigrants and Muslims, but it's specifically the UK and France that suffers. Sure, they're involved militarily in the Middle East, but so too are those other countries to some extent.
France and the UK need to treat its young men better before they turn on them. These atrocities are the result of very evil people contacting and then brainwashing alienated, angry young men over the internet.
|
|
|
|
Post by mobeach on Nov 16, 2015 16:58:06 GMT -6
If I heard correctly, the social systems in some European countries are collapsing due to the influx of immigrants. Sweden being one of them.
|
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Nov 16, 2015 17:17:49 GMT -6
I think it says a lot about how different European societies treat Arab immigrants. Ireland, Spain, Germany, Sweden and many other European countries have hundreds of thousands of Arab immigrants and Muslims, but it's specifically the UK and France that suffers. Sure, they're involved militarily in the Middle East, but so too are those other countries to some extent. France and the UK need to treat its young men better before they turn on them. These atrocities are the result of very evil people contacting and then brainwashing alienated, angry young men over the internet. Most people from outside of the EU do not know that France treats thier Muslims very bad. Another point comes to mind, we are now in the year 14 of war on Terror and the result is we have more Terrorists than we had before 9/11. It goes that far that my GF wants to cancel our trip to the USA in 2016. |
|
|
|
Post by jazznoise on Nov 16, 2015 17:37:55 GMT -6
If I heard correctly, the social systems in some European countries are collapsing due to the influx of immigrants. Sweden being one of them. It's some truth met with a lot of exaggeration. Many countries are taking much more than we deemed fair - Germany, Sweden and others are being insanely generous. Everywhere east of Germany has stuck consistently to their "No Brown People Please" policy. Estonia will be taking about 200 immigrants this year, Slovakia and Hungary are incensed at the amount they've had come through. The burden has been unfairly put on a few nations. Ireland has offered to take more, but we'll see how that works out. The fact is that these are middle class people fleeing Syria, Eritrea and other places. They know that Greece, Italy, Bulgaria and Macedonia are impoverished nations and they don't want to go from poverty in one place to another. The welfare in some of those countries wouldn't cover rent, and the governments can't afford to teach them the native languages, and there's no way you're going to have learnt those languages in a school. So they can't work, they can't live in direct provision. To stay where they land in the Schengen is the same as drowning in the ocean to them. Pople smuggling on the continent has exploded due to what is called Dublin Law (Refugees gain status only in the country they first land in). If we removed it and we spread the immigrants out more fairly everyone could be happier and there would be less money in the black market for moving people. |
|
|
|
Post by mobeach on Nov 16, 2015 17:39:02 GMT -6
I think it says a lot about how different European societies treat Arab immigrants. Ireland, Spain, Germany, Sweden and many other European countries have hundreds of thousands of Arab immigrants and Muslims, but it's specifically the UK and France that suffers. Sure, they're involved militarily in the Middle East, but so too are those other countries to some extent. France and the UK need to treat its young men better before they turn on them. These atrocities are the result of very evil people contacting and then brainwashing alienated, angry young men over the internet. Most people from outside of the EU do not know that France treats thier Muslims very bad. Well they have to work for a living, they can't expect handouts for the rest of their lives. Life is what you make it. |
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Nov 16, 2015 18:03:46 GMT -6
If I heard correctly, the social systems in some European countries are collapsing due to the influx of immigrants. Sweden being one of them. Thats not true, special Sweeden and Germany have a big enough GBP, both can do it with ease. We need to rethink our way how to treat the war on Terror, because war seems not to be a soloution. Now we want to Bomb the shit out of IS, wait we did it the past 14 years. How long does it takes that we cant afford a never ending war anymore. Think of Russia in the 90s, they had a too big military complex, thier state failed. |
|
|
|
Post by jazznoise on Nov 16, 2015 18:09:17 GMT -6
Most people from outside of the EU do not know that France treats thier Muslims very bad. Well they have to work for a living, they can't expect handouts for the rest of their lives. Life is what you make it. Read what I posted above, and think about it from their side. Imagine you land in Syria tomorrow and see how fast you learn Arabic and what restaurant owner is going to hire you when you look like an alien, or what company is going to recognize your degree from some place they've never heard of. The only people who are going to deal with you are there to exploit you, and you are powerless but to go through them. Some people are changed €10,000 + just to get from Greece to France. Some people are charged €500 for a bus from Sicily to Rome (That costs €50 at most), because they have no English. They were making their own lives, like you, and then a bunch of freaks with guns and knives showed up and ruined their lives and killed their friends. They're not the bad guys. The Daesh are the bad guys. |
|
