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Post by noah shain on Aug 5, 2015 11:21:19 GMT -6
Hey all
I've been on PT 9 for years and I like it. It's stable and I HATE updating. So...I've ignored all the updates and versions.
However...I think I wanna check out UAD. Can you all school me on the best way to get in to a UAD system and do I want to move to PT10 first? Ugh...
So should I be PCI card or satellite or what?
Thanks...
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Post by drbill on Aug 5, 2015 12:00:28 GMT -6
Noah - IMO (don't own any UAD plugs) there are lots of equally good options. I only want one DSP thing (HDX) attached to my system. It's complicated enough as it is. The UAD stuff is no doubt top notch, but once you're in, you're in a closed system, and they kind of have the option to hold you captive -and I've already got enough of that kind of BS with AVID. There is amazing stuff like the klanghelm compressor coming out for pennies on the dollar compared to UAD these days. $199 for a spring reverb plug??? Too much IMO. You can go Exponential Audio and get MUCH more bang for the buck reverb wise for the same money. Just my $.02. IF I was doing it, I'd get the satellite system. Just say no to PCI - they are headed towards the dinosaur scrap heap.....
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Post by kcatthedog on Aug 5, 2015 12:24:31 GMT -6
Current ua is pci-e
If you just want to mix using ua you don't need an Apollo
A satellite or pci-e card gives you uad for mixing but not for tracking
If you want to track then you need an Apollo for lowest latency and best performance is pci-e over tbolt.
There are lots of good deals on used silverface apollos: get a quad if you can !
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 5, 2015 14:10:21 GMT -6
Can't he just get a Satellite? I'm sure there are some FW Satellite Quads out there going for practically nothing. I use a mix of UAD and native plugs...couldn't do without either. The EMT verbs are fantastic, the new AKG Spring, The 1176 collection, FATSO, Ampex, 1073...there are a bunch...
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Post by kcatthedog on Aug 5, 2015 14:22:37 GMT -6
Sure fire wire is fine adds about 500 samples I think bUT not a problem for mixing
A used quad should be $500 ish ?
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Post by odyssey76 on Aug 5, 2015 14:31:20 GMT -6
noah shain - I've heard your mixes (bought the new Dead Sara CD) and you don't need to go UAD. Keep doing what you're doing dude 'cause it ain't broke yet! I agree with drbill - there's too many great alternatives without being trapped by another hardware device that allows you to use software.....obviously just my opinion. 
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Post by joseph on Aug 5, 2015 14:34:13 GMT -6
So dumb that you have to pay many hundreds of dollars simply for the privilege of using a plugin that you also have to pay for separately.
Frankly I'd still rather pay hundreds for another dongle than have to worry about being forced to use some shitty DSP device that can fail outright or glitch out on thunderbolt/firewire bus.
Damn it, this and EMT250 are pretty tempting, just for some more flavors.
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Post by kcatthedog on Aug 5, 2015 15:06:53 GMT -6
Dumb ? The ua system was designed at a time when systems weren't as they are now It is proprietary but so what ? You get a very good interface , now redesigned and improved, fire wire or pci-e satalites and some of the best plugs out there and an ever expanding group of plugs and if you buy strategically you can easily get plugs at 30% and typically 50% of retail There are lots of options: ua's just one, but hardly a dumb choice |
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Post by joseph on Aug 5, 2015 15:43:36 GMT -6
The ua system was designed at a time when systems weren't as they are now That's the point. The paradigm has shifted, and yet I would be forced to buy an obsolete design to subsidize their business model. We're not talking Bricasti level purpose built DSP chips. The UAD SHARC satellite hardware itself is a total rip off because of its poor performance with their newest plugins. They should at least give you DSP chips with performance that fairly reflect the entry price. For $1000+ you shouldn't run out of DSP with a basic 12-16 channels, tape emulation, and some effects buses, but people do. Firewire is also old tech, but at least there they have thunderbolt option. Same deal with Apollo- you have to buy subpar preamps and converters to get improved latency over the satellites. Both these approaches are not good for the consumer. I would rather they just say straight up, in order to gain participation of the EMT250/AMS RMX16 designers, AKG etc, they have to charge more for their plugin licenses. Would be cheaper for everybody in the long run than forcing people to buy overpriced hardware for the privilege. |
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Post by guitfiddler on Aug 5, 2015 15:49:50 GMT -6
Not to derail this thread, I like the UAD system, however I was looking at going Native on another system. Can you do Native verbs in real time without latency while tracking? That really is the only question I have because I have outboard efx and my analog console is just waiting in the wings to be setup and used as soon as I get my new place.
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Post by mrholmes on Aug 5, 2015 16:16:49 GMT -6
I am not a pro and I would not go UAD again, but its a different story if you need to save CPU.
It must be said that thier blue stripe, for example, sounds nothing but great.
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Post by kcatthedog on Aug 5, 2015 16:20:12 GMT -6
The ua system was designed at a time when systems weren't as they are now That's the point. The paradigm has shifted, and yet I would be forced to buy an obsolete design to subsidize their business model. We're not talking Bricasti level purpose built DSP chips. The UAD SHARC satellite hardware itself is a total rip off because of its poor performance with their newest plugins. They should at least give you DSP chips with performance that fairly reflect the entry price. For $1000+ you shouldn't run out of DSP with a basic 12-16 channels, tape emulation, and some effects buses, but people do. Firewire is also old tech, but at least there they have thunderbolt option. Same deal with Apollo- you have to buy subpar preamps and converters to get improved latency over the satellites. Both these approaches are not good for the consumer. I would rather they just say straight up, in order to gain participation of the EMT250/AMS RMX16 designers, AKG etc, they have to charge more for their plugin licenses. Would be cheaper for everybody in the long run than forcing people to buy overpriced hardware for the privilege. ah a ua hater. you don't seem to know the ua system well ? the satalite has nothing to do with ua's pre amps and converters do you own any ua interfaces ? |
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Post by kcatthedog on Aug 5, 2015 16:21:39 GMT -6
Not to derail this thread, I like the UAD system, however I was looking at going Native on another system. Can you do Native verbs in real time without latency while tracking? That really is the only question I have because I have outboard efx and my analog console is just waiting in the wings to be setup and used as soon as I get my new place. have you checked out the new focusrite interface at pro tools expert review by james ? he says he can run native with essentially no latency. |
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Post by mrholmes on Aug 5, 2015 16:26:02 GMT -6
Not to derail this thread, I like the UAD system, however I was looking at going Native on another system. Can you do Native verbs in real time without latency while tracking? That really is the only question I have because I have outboard efx and my analog console is just waiting in the wings to be setup and used as soon as I get my new place. have you checked out the new focusrite interface at pro tools expert review by james ? he says he can run native with essentially no latency. that sounds interesting link? |
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Post by swurveman on Aug 5, 2015 16:29:23 GMT -6
I have the UAD-2 Quad.
Despite all they hype, I don't use my UA plugins any more than any others and there is no performance improvement. If I had to do it over again, I wouldn't have made the investment.
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Post by guitfiddler on Aug 5, 2015 16:35:32 GMT -6
I have the UAD-2 Quad. Despite all they hype, I don't use my UA plugins any more than any others and there is no performance improvement. If I had to do it over again, I wouldn't have made the investment. Interesting, I am in the middle of looking into this myself. LOL!!! Maybe this is the cheap answer to my new work flow. |
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Post by joseph on Aug 5, 2015 16:44:26 GMT -6
That's the point. The paradigm has shifted, and yet I would be forced to buy an obsolete design to subsidize their business model. We're not talking Bricasti level purpose built DSP chips. The UAD SHARC satellite hardware itself is a total rip off because of its poor performance with their newest plugins. They should at least give you DSP chips with performance that fairly reflect the entry price. For $1000+ you shouldn't run out of DSP with a basic 12-16 channels, tape emulation, and some effects buses, but people do. Firewire is also old tech, but at least there they have thunderbolt option. Same deal with Apollo- you have to buy subpar preamps and converters to get improved latency over the satellites. Both these approaches are not good for the consumer. I would rather they just say straight up, in order to gain participation of the EMT250/AMS RMX16 designers, AKG etc, they have to charge more for their plugin licenses. Would be cheaper for everybody in the long run than forcing people to buy overpriced hardware for the privilege. ah a ua hater. you don't seem to know the ua system well ? the satalite has nothing to do with ua's pre amps and converters do you own any ua interfaces ? Please don't resort to ad hominem. I don't own a UA device, because I don't want to bother with another piece of clunky and overpriced hardware. The price itself is not the issue, it's being locked in to the hardware, which again would not be as much an issue if it weren't underpowered. I think this is a reasonable assessment of their users' experience with latest plugins. Really it's an ongoing issue all over GS and the UAD forums. I tend to research things before I buy them. The satellites have extra latency. The apollos have less, but I don't want the preamps or converters. Franky, I don't understand why anyone would support this business model which is clearly bad for the consumer. We're not talking about the actual plugins but the platform. That said, the plugins are top notch and there are some unique choices like the AKG Spring and the EMT250, so I may just decide to deal with the compromise in the future. I'll resent it, but it's not a life or death decision is it? |
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Post by kcatthedog on Aug 5, 2015 17:16:08 GMT -6
Hi Joseph,
the latency of the firewire satellites is related to the up-sampling and the ua plug quality.
The new pci-e over tbolt satellites are certainly faster than the older FW, maybe try one of those?
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Post by kcatthedog on Aug 5, 2015 17:19:52 GMT -6
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Post by Johnkenn on Aug 5, 2015 17:22:18 GMT -6
Noah asked for advise...that's one piece of advice...I've really enjoyed my Apollo being the hub for the rest of my gear. I like Console a lot and it's cool to occasionally throw on some plugs when tracking.
Kcat, I think you are confusing this thread with the AKG one.
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Post by joseph on Aug 5, 2015 17:35:44 GMT -6
Hi Joseph, the latency of the firewire satellites is related to the up-sampling and the ua plug quality. The new pci-e over tbolt satellites are certainly faster than the older FW, maybe try one of those? It's also related to the implementation of the DSP off-loading which is much improved in the ~2ms Apollo. |
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Post by swurveman on Aug 5, 2015 20:19:55 GMT -6
]Interesting, I am in the middle of looking into this myself.;Maybe this is the cheap answer to my new work flow. Well it's official: There's a dive to the bottom in plugin prices. I think Slate is being smart: He realizes that there's not a lot of differentiation in the plugin market. So, he's changing the game. And he's right: What the resale for your plugins? I can tell you that my La-2A, 1176, API 2500, Smart C2, Bricasti are holding steady. Certainly not having to sell them for 1/2 price. |
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Post by noah shain on Aug 6, 2015 0:16:33 GMT -6
Well...I think I'll hold off. Whenever there's a polarization about something like this I like to wait. Usually means something better is coming because what's there isn't satisfying enough people.
I don't need to use plugs when tracking and I'm not really MISSING anything at mix. Probably just bored and GASsy. Though, the love for UAD that the satisfied users have is pretty enticing, it's almost just a compatibility issue for me. More and more mix work coming in sessions with plugs on and I lost a gig earlier in the year because I didn't have UAD. Probably not a gig I would've enjoyed though.
Thanks for the participation y'all.
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Post by allbuttonmode on Aug 6, 2015 3:50:38 GMT -6
I dove head first into the UAD pool back in 2006/7. Their plugins are the foundation for all my mixes. For most things, I've yet to find alternatives that work equally well for me. I love their software. It's great. Their user support is top notch. If you need help, they'll help you. I'm a certified fanboy.
HOWEVER:
I do not feel their hardware system is a sustainable choice for the consumer.
Personally, I've spent a considerable amount of money on their cards. I started out with one of the UAD-1 cards, and in the end I had 4. Then the UAD-2 came out. I then switched out the 1s with a UAD-2 quad. Then added another. Then added an octo.
I am on a Win platform, and this has put me in a situation where I either:
1: keep looking for motherboards with enough pci-e slots to accommodate this.(They are getting increasingly hard to come by.)
2: Spend a fortune on a Magma box.
3: Switch to Mac and start investing from the ground up in TB units.(TB - Yes please. Mac - No way).
Number 3 is not an option for me personally, since Apple has decided to take the customer hostility to unprecedented levels with the new non-upgradeable machines. Also, their products are ridiculously priced for what you get. (Before anyone thinks I'm trying to start a Win/MAC war here: 've got both Mac and Win systems outside of the studio. They both have pros and cons)
UA's system is starting to get very expensive. To the point where, for the consumer, it doesn't make sense.
I'm still rooting for UA, but I don't know for how long. They will never go native, that's been stated over and over. But they need to come up with a more user-friendly system. I just hope they don't go all arrogant like Apple...
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Post by mrholmes on Aug 6, 2015 18:09:02 GMT -6
The only thing that pulls me away from buying new UAD plug ins is that there are way cheaper ones which play in the same arena.
I like the newer UAD plugs a lot but sometimes I think they go crazy with the fees.
When I saw calling 300$ the first time I decided to buy an Art Pro VLA II which is by far not a bad compressor. Got it used from ebay for 180....
I payed a lot of cash for the dsp cards.
I think that deserves to be cheaper?
Must be said, I love the sound of the plugs I hate the politics.
Same is true for Waves WUP.
I paid it once and never bought any Waves plugs again.
Steven may is right, or even sometimes you know that you just nedd something a limited time, why buying it in a software world? Adobe is doing that monthly fee rate thing for a long time.
You get all the updates and background work for "free".
I bet they make a lot more cash with renting the whole bundle.
And they have a fluid cash flow which makes the company atractive to the banksters.
So yes SL is right and I bet we will see followes.
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