|
|
Post by ragan on Aug 6, 2015 18:29:28 GMT -6
The ua system was designed at a time when systems weren't as they are now That's the point. The paradigm has shifted, and yet I would be forced to buy an obsolete design to subsidize their business model. We're not talking Bricasti level purpose built DSP chips. The UAD SHARC satellite hardware itself is a total rip off because of its poor performance with their newest plugins. They should at least give you DSP chips with performance that fairly reflect the entry price. For $1000+ you shouldn't run out of DSP with a basic 12-16 channels, tape emulation, and some effects buses, but people do. Firewire is also old tech, but at least there they have thunderbolt option. Same deal with Apollo- you have to buy subpar preamps and converters to get improved latency over the satellites. Both these approaches are not good for the consumer. I would rather they just say straight up, in order to gain participation of the EMT250/AMS RMX16 designers, AKG etc, they have to charge more for their plugin licenses. Would be cheaper for everybody in the long run than forcing people to buy overpriced hardware for the privilege. Neither the Apollo's preamps nor converters are subpar. Ask Category 5 or any of the other knowledgable people here who've taken them apart. Or just use one. They're great quality. As to the issue in this thread, I would personally only recommend going UAD if you're getting an Apollo and using it as a hub. The super low latency tracking is huge. Feels like monitoring in the analog domain. And being able to punch up your vocal or whatever while you're tracking is way more inspiring than monitoring totally dry, raw tracks. The atmosphere in the cans using Apollo and Console is fantastic. That's why I keep rocking mine, even though I use the Burl and D Box with it. If the Apollo-as-hub thing doesn't interest you, or you don't track live nstruments, I would not recommend going UAD. At all. It's just too overpriced. Slate and Softube are at least as good, emulation wise and just phenomenally cheaper. My opinion only, of course. |
|
|
|
Post by joseph on Aug 6, 2015 19:00:34 GMT -6
For that kind of money invested in 300 dollar a pop plugins you can (and I do) track with real hardware. My main point is that in order to have 2ms latency I would have to also buy converters and preamps I don't need. I can't just buy a low latency device with decent (i.e. OCTO) DSP power, they don't have that option. Size-wise converters are fine but not quite on the level of Forssell, Mytek, Apogee Symphony, Burl, etc. Preamps, I like mine to have ohms switch and I/O transformers, just plain sounds better to have these options with condensers. Like I said, it's really the unique effects not available native that appeals to me. EQs and compressors, I have hardware and other software options for that. What I want is a thunderbolt device with low latency and good DSP horsepower, not the overpriced and underpowered and higher latency QUAD satellite. Those UAD-2 DSP chips are just not very good by today's standards. The whole point of plugins is you're not forced to print them. Am I imagining things? uadforum.com/general-discussion/16697-dsp-usage-oh-well-cant-get-much-worse-until-uad-3-a.htmlAnyway, just my opinions. The plugins sound great, the platform is a turn off. |
|
|
|
Post by stratboy on Aug 6, 2015 19:32:00 GMT -6
I own 2 FW Satellite Duos. I bought the first one when my 2006 Mini began to run out of steam. That was PT7. UAD made a ton of sense in that scenario because it took the load off the CPU. I bought the second one for the same reason. I moved to PT8 and I got more ambitious. I thought about a Quad, but getting another Duo gave me the functional equivalent. I'm now on PT10 and still have the two FW Duos. I upgraded to a 2013 Mini, fully loaded, and the Duos still help with the performance.
I use a mix of UAD and Native plugs. Some of the UADs are indespensible, like the Verbs and Comps. Some of the little tools, like the IBP and VOG get used a lot as well. Oxford and bx EQs are fantastic. The Harrison 32 is a real workhorse.
Noah, if your CPU needs help, don't hesitate. It's a great way to extend the life of your computer. If you have plenty of horsepower and are going for the sounds, I think the UAD plugs are worth the expense, and the hardware is portable if you upgrade computers, as I did.
One thing about UAD is they are expensive plugs. AS many have pointed out, UAD has sales at least twice a year. Be patient and you get better deals. They regularly send out coupons; sometimes that is a good deal, sometimes not so much. The other thing that really helped me keep the cost down, was I bought each Duo at a time when UAD was offering a make-your-own plugin bundle with the hardware. I got my REALLY expensive items (Oxford, bx, etc) in those deals, then cherry picked the rest over the past couple of years.
I hope this helps!
Btw, this is my 100th post. I don't know how you guys with 1000+ do it, but I'm glad you do! I have learned a LOT here at RGO.
|
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Aug 6, 2015 19:44:28 GMT -6
BTW if we talk mixing I find myself using the up to date simulations very often and I leave the older ones unused.
With a rental system I may could trade them in, for newer ones, or simply use them all.
The end for the PCie cards is near....
Another limitation is there too.
I cant buy everything, nor do I use all the tools to make it happen.
The market is oversaturated and I simple cant keep an eye on all new releases.
I feel twited by thier fake rabates, sometimes they are true rabates.
To me its a sign to stay hybrid.
|
|
kcatthedog
Temp
Super Helpful Dude
Posts: 16,088 
Member is Online
|
Post by kcatthedog on Aug 6, 2015 20:15:32 GMT -6
I don't really get why people complain about UA's prices ? UA offers lots of ways to get significant discount on its products, you just need to be strategic and patient. Typically available discounts are 30-50 % of retail so that $299 plug is actually $133, buy an apollo with its embedded classics package and you get upgrades to mkii plugs at 50% of retail or typically $150. The only person who pays $300 or full list for a UA plug is someone who has decided to buy it at its most expensive offering; they certainly don't have to. UA offers different sales all year long as well and sends people free coupons. I just bought a $250 retail plug for $49 dollars. It was on sale for $99 and UA had given me a $50 coupon for completing one of its surveys. Sharc chips, big deal I have 12 , 4 in my apollo and an octo card, when I bought the octo UA gave me a coupon worth $1046 USD and I was able to use that during one of its sales for even more savings. While some would say the card is overpriced if UA gives you its value again in plugs, you either got twice the value for the same price or hardware and software at 50%. It takes a fair number of plugs to chew through 12 sharc chips.
There are lots of great systems out there but as Ragan said if you don't care to use an apollo as your recording hub than maybe apollo isn't for you but there are lots of ways to get good deals on UA plugs if you want to use them standalone.
|
|
|
|
Post by ragan on Aug 6, 2015 20:16:28 GMT -6
For that kind of money invested in 300 dollar a pop plugins you can (and I do) track with real hardware. My main point is that in order to have 2ms latency I would have to also buy converters and preamps I don't need. I can't just buy a low latency device with decent (i.e. OCTO) DSP power, they don't have that option. Size-wise converters are fine but not quite on the level of Forssell, Mytek, Apogee Symphony, Burl, etc. Preamps, I like mine to have ohms switch and I/O transformers, just plain sounds better to have these options with condensers. Like I said, it's really the unique effects not available native that appeals to me. EQs and compressors, I have hardware and other software options for that. What I want is a thunderbolt device with low latency and good DSP horsepower, not the overpriced and underpowered and higher latency QUAD satellite. Those UAD-2 DSP chips are just not very good by today's standards. The whole point of plugins is you're not forced to print them. Am I imagining things? uadforum.com/general-discussion/16697-dsp-usage-oh-well-cant-get-much-worse-until-uad-3-a.htmlAnyway, just my opinions. The plugins sound great, the platform is a turn off. Well I prefer meatier pre too (I generally track through Heritage 1073's) but no one puts that kind of pre in an interface for both cost and space reasons. The Burr brown pres in the Apollo are clean, musical pres. Not to mention they were designed from the start to use the Unison emulations. The converters are similar to a Lynx Aurora. It's a really good box, the Apollo. And I've tracked a lot with hardware too, but then you're (obviously) committed. That's not the main issue though for me. For me, I'm recording myself so printing at tracking time is largely guesswork. And in a world where a small difference in the attack of an 1176 or whatever can make or break your vocal come mix time, I don't like to print anymore. I monitor compression (usually the Rev A or the Fatso) cause it sounds awesome in the phones and inspires good takes, but I don't print it. But again, if you're not going the Apollo route, to me, at this point, UAD is a big waste of money. There's definitely something to be said for making your computer last longer but nothing short of an Octo is all that practical if you're mixing high track count stuff and for that kind of money you can buy a new MBP or something. I'm certainly not sinking any more dough into SHARC chips or $300 plugins. I'd rather buy mics. UAD sends me coupons constantly cause (after spending a shitload of money in their plugs initially) I haven't bought lately, but I just don't feel at all like buying their stuff. I have everything I need for my Apollo to be an awesome tracking hub. Come mix time, I'm largely native. |
|
|
|
Post by ragan on Aug 6, 2015 20:20:38 GMT -6
And just to be clear, I'm not entirely critical of UAD's pricing. They largely invented realistic modeling and they've enjoyed Top Dog Status for a reason.
I'm just saying I'm no longer motivated to put money into that platform.
|
|
|
|
Post by jcoutu1 on Aug 6, 2015 23:01:56 GMT -6
I don't really get why people complain about UA's prices ? UA offers lots of ways to get significant discount on its products, you just need to be strategic and patient. Typically available discounts are 30-50 % of retail so that $299 plug is actually $133, buy an apollo with its embedded classics package and you get upgrades to mkii plugs at 50% of retail or typically $150. The only person who pays $300 or full list for a UA plug is someone who has decided to buy it at its most expensive offering; they certainly don't have to. UA offers different sales all year long as well and sends people free coupons. I just bought a $250 retail plug for $49 dollars. It was on sale for $99 and UA had given me a $50 coupon for completing one of its surveys. Sharc chips, big deal I have 12 , 4 in my apollo and an octo card, when I bought the octo UA gave me a coupon worth $1046 USD and I was able to use that during one of its sales for even more savings. While some would say the card is overpriced if UA gives you its value again in plugs, you either got twice the value for the same price or hardware and software at 50%. It takes a fair number of plugs to chew through 12 sharc chips. There are lots of great systems out there but as Ragan said if you don't care to use an apollo as your recording hub than maybe apollo isn't for you but there are lots of ways to get good deals on UA plugs if you want to use them standalone. I think it's more about the cost of the overpriced shark chips than the cost of the actual plugs that bothers people. One instance of the Massive Passive eats an entire duo card right? |
|
kcatthedog
Temp
Super Helpful Dude
Posts: 16,088
Member is Online
|
Post by kcatthedog on Aug 7, 2015 5:02:17 GMT -6
I understand: that's why I referenced ua's hardware and software sales. I would only by quads and octo. Ua publishes an instance chart: www.uaudio.com/support/uad/compatibility/instance-chart.htmlSaying a massive passive uses a lot of dsp is like saying a rolls royce uses a lot of gas  I believe UA only recommends it on the master buss We were referencing on the other thread the new akg spring reverb bx-20 just released for $199, very well received and reviewed. UA gave everyone a $25 coupon and I just got another $25 coupon so in effect UA has reduced the price by 25%. UA often, like now, gives away satellites with hardware sales, people often just sell the satellites and use the money on other things. Like many UA users I have a hybrid system so I can distribute DSP across host and native. |
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Aug 7, 2015 5:33:41 GMT -6
I don't really get why people complain about UA's prices ? UA offers lots of ways to get significant discount on its products, you just need to be strategic and patient. Typically available discounts are 30-50 % of retail so that $299 plug is actually $133, buy an apollo with its embedded classics package and you get upgrades to mkii plugs at 50% of retail or typically $150. The only person who pays $300 or full list for a UA plug is someone who has decided to buy it at its most expensive offering; they certainly don't have to. UA offers different sales all year long as well and sends people free coupons. I just bought a $250 retail plug for $49 dollars. It was on sale for $99 and UA had given me a $50 coupon for completing one of its surveys. Sharc chips, big deal I have 12 , 4 in my apollo and an octo card, when I bought the octo UA gave me a coupon worth $1046 USD and I was able to use that during one of its sales for even more savings. While some would say the card is overpriced if UA gives you its value again in plugs, you either got twice the value for the same price or hardware and software at 50%. It takes a fair number of plugs to chew through 12 sharc chips. There are lots of great systems out there but as Ragan said if you don't care to use an apollo as your recording hub than maybe apollo isn't for you but there are lots of ways to get good deals on UA plugs if you want to use them standalone. Pardon but what I get offered (Europe) is very often a fake discount. They just go up before they send the e-mails. Or they say you own this 25$ voucher for ever and you can use it store wide..... if you reed the small letters they exclude some plug ins as well as that it expires. I remember true 50$ vouchers store wide one month running... that was a fair deal. For example I would love to upgrade the LA2A to the MK II but not at 150$. Instead I used the Klanghelm for 30$ and it sounds superb. We are talking plug ins. You just buy the right to use the software; you own physically nothing. They charged 1200 Euro for a Quad card they should offer good deals to the long term customers. They want to charge me twice for the MKII, a handling fee is OK - but nothing more. But hey thats just my opinion. And yupp me too.... I stopped investing in this platform. |
|
kcatthedog
Temp
Super Helpful Dude
Posts: 16,088
Member is Online
|
Post by kcatthedog on Aug 7, 2015 5:59:50 GMT -6
UA offers different types of coupons and they are just an incentive to buy plug ins. I understand your perspective about mkii upgrades but don't agree that they should be free. When ua does an upgrade it has typically extensively remodelled the hardware and the new plug represents lots of new development costs. If you bought the first version you had the use of that and if you want the update you get it for 50% while a new user pays 100%. Why should anyone get a whole new plug for free ? Funny, my car dealer doesn't buy that argument when I want a new car and get this they want me to pay for it not get it for free Slate's new "free" subscription service is revealing; free updates actually cost you ,for starters $240 usd per year and will no doubt go up in time. So, at least $2400 every ten years. Like others have said here, buying good hardware ( new or used) is really the better investment. Ironically, I think subscription services will trigger increased purchases of good hardware as people crunch the numbers. I know someone with a nice modded delta 16 channel board with upgraded power supply; must admit I am tempted |
|
|
|
Post by drumrec on Aug 9, 2015 18:52:44 GMT -6
Hey all I've been on PT 9 for years and I like it. It's stable and I HATE updating. So...I've ignored all the updates and versions. However...I think I wanna check out UAD. Can you all school me on the best way to get in to a UAD system and do I want to move to PT10 first? Ugh... So should I be PCI card or satellite or what? Thanks... As John says, you can probably get a satellite quad for no money at all. I'm UAD users from the first card and I like what I hear. But I could step on UAD train for just Ampex ATR-102. Try it and see what you think. At last it is still your ears is the maestro what is good or bad, good luck |
|
|
|
Post by mdmitch2 on Aug 9, 2015 20:16:19 GMT -6
I enjoy not having to shop around TOO much and try every single 1176 or LA2A plugin demo out there... it's nice to know that I can just buy the UAD version of anything, and it will be very good, or often the best plugin version available. It can be a huge time saver for those of us that get bogged down in choices. The system is also very stable IME, and my UAD plugs are NEVER the ones that are crashing my system.
I do think that UAD2 is getting pretty long in the tooth (came out in 2008), and I would definitely wait for UAD3 if I was a new customer.
By the way, the best sales are almost always in June and December.
|
|
I believe UA only recommends it on the master buss 
