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Post by gouge on Jun 18, 2015 21:07:59 GMT -6
I managed to pick a lavry over an all in one converter which was done scientifically on the purple site. I did an ab in the studio with my music partner.
I got an 80% preference and he got a 90% preference.
both of us picked the lavry. that's fairly solid evidence to me even without a scope.
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Post by Guitar on Jun 18, 2015 21:08:22 GMT -6
"proceeded to call me and others=circle jerkoffs, under qualified, failures, inferiority complexes, 6 year olds, cowards, in about 4 posts, and lets not forget the "cunt" incident" Real nice casual, polite stuff, no attitude there! I am glad we are having this sensible and level headed discussion like a bunch of gentleman... That is where it kind of starts to lead to a fist in the face in real life. I don't want this thread to get over the top creepy, it's almost there already. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2015 21:09:17 GMT -6
So, we might get to the point that this thread is titled as a sarcastic comment on one statement of Ethan, not in the pure intention to make a general "Ethan-bashing arena".
Although, it's hard not to get there...
IT'S ALL ETHAN'S FAULT!!!!
(Oh, sorry, i lost my temper for a moment...) 8)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2015 21:39:02 GMT -6
Gee there's a guy who spends a fair amount of time on here who has a really nice AP who could prove you can measure what we hear in converters , he modded one for me! And is just down the street from Tony! If he can do it, great! That's all I've been asking for, a metric. Likewise, @smallbutfine, if you have clips then great. I'd rather have a discussion than an argument, which is actually why you need this stuff - to have a basis to work by. EDIT: And for the record, I'm sorry if I got up anyone's nose. I wasn't meaning to offend, but there are things I take issue with. Most people here have been extremely nice since I returned. I might come back to this later, i have not studio time free the next weeks to make some recordings of this kind, but in the meantime you might have a listen to loop recording files made in the discussion of converters in the DIY section, e.g. in this post made by bannedchuck: realgearonline.com/post/61760/threadBe sure to level match and see, if you can hear a difference and pick a favourite in ABX. I could. If you can't, then differences of converters don't matter in this league at all to you obviously. Not nearly the same as comparing a ADA-8000 with a Mytek, to be fair, and no inferior source involved, but it's loops that are just the pure converter chain. So you might see, if it makes a difference for you, with your monitoring. |
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Post by kidvybes on Jun 18, 2015 22:19:52 GMT -6
...trying to follow this thread...came to one conclusion...monkeyxx's avatar is disturbing...
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 18, 2015 23:03:39 GMT -6
Um...lets stop. There is an ignore feature if you click on someone's profile...
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Post by Guitar on Jun 18, 2015 23:17:20 GMT -6
...trying to follow this thread...came to one conclusion...monkeyxx's avatar is disturbing... Haha that's a good conclusion.  I actually liked a lot of the posts here that were more...constructive. Lots of talent on this forum. Thanks John Kenn I just used the ignore feature. |
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Post by mrholmes on Jun 19, 2015 7:42:34 GMT -6
Hearing has been remarkably well investigated. Unfortunately audio skeptics choose to ignore a great deal of what we actually know about hearing. There are still many unanswered questions too. One of my relatives is doing research on the topic. Psychology plays a role, good day bad day, did you had a longer period of stress..... There is more than one way to hear. |
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Post by swurveman on Jun 19, 2015 9:00:24 GMT -6
I'm a person who is is trying to ultimately have the best of every kind of gear. That being said, I can't say I can hear much of a difference in sound between recording through my old Layla converters compared to my Aurora/RME setup. I think the source of the music- the quality of the songwriting/production, vocalist/mic, guitarist/instruments, quality of drummer/kit etc.- is the most important aspect of sound. On the other hand, buying converters that always work from a company that has great support is huge.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jun 19, 2015 9:57:23 GMT -6
Hearing has been remarkably well investigated. Unfortunately audio skeptics choose to ignore a great deal of what we actually know about hearing. There are still many unanswered questions too. One of my relatives is doing research on the topic. Make sure your relative isn't reinventing the wheel Bell Labs built decades ago. The amount of out and out bullsh!t that has been published even recently about this subject is staggering. |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jun 19, 2015 10:02:35 GMT -6
As for converters, where the rubber meets the road is fragility, i.e. how much signal processing the signal can handle before it turns crunchy. D to A converters error by excluding midrange detail. Lots of people confuse line stage shortcomings with digital.
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Post by LesC on Jun 19, 2015 10:06:30 GMT -6
I think we have great information about the physics and physiology of the hearing mechanisms. But I also think that we don't yet know much about how the brain interprets the information. This is the same kind of brain that can think a couple of naked teenagers upset a god and caused an earthquake.
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Post by scumbum on Jun 19, 2015 10:16:25 GMT -6
I like Ethan . I'm actually the one that invited him to come join this forum .
Ethans whole point about converters is that , compared with digital recording devices people had in the past , the Sound Blaster Live is very good quality . People in years past dreamt about a converter as good as the Sound Blaster Live and here we pretty much all have it readily available to record with on our computers .
So he basically is saying stop complaining that you don't have a Super Expensive Converter and can't get a Professional Sound . The Sound Blaster Live which everyone already has is really all you need to make a great recording . The technology of todays basic converters are what engineers dreamt of in years past and its now available to everyone .
So thats where the room acoustics come into play . You got a basic good quality digital converter , whats really holding you back from getting a Pro sound ? Most likely the horrible sounding acoustics in your bedroom .
If you treat your room , use a decent mic , mic pre and Sound Blaster Live converter .....all you need is a great song , performance and you'll have yourself a song ready for the radio .
It really is the truth .
Yes , all this Super High End recording gear is nice . But a Hit Song recorded on the most basic equipment is really all the general public wants .
They wanna hear "good music".
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Post by kidvybes on Jun 19, 2015 12:06:25 GMT -6
Um...lets stop. There is an ignore feature if you click on someone's profile... ...I like to reading what monkeyxx has got to say...no disrespect meant to him in terms of his posts...but the avatar...still disturbing... ...oh, sorry...you were referring to that "other guy"...  |
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Post by ragan on Jun 19, 2015 12:45:09 GMT -6
I personally like jazznoise's posts. So he's a little verbose and a little fiery, so what?
This isn't Singapore is it? Surely there's room for some dissent in opinion (even if it comes a little strong out of the gate....) without a verbal caning?
That Ethan/stripper video though...what the hell is going on there?!
That is one of the oddest things I've ever seen.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 19, 2015 13:21:15 GMT -6
I must have missed the stripper video.
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Post by ragan on Jun 19, 2015 13:40:41 GMT -6
I must have missed the stripper video. It's really something. Only thing that could have made it weirder is if David Lynch produced it. |
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Post by scumbum on Jun 19, 2015 14:22:17 GMT -6
I emailed Ethan to let him know about this thread and see if he wanted to come join the conversation but he said he rather not if its just gonna be insults thrown around . He told me I could post his email as a response ,
"Yes, they twist and argue and throw insults. That's why I said I'm glad
to be part of a thread that discusses audio fidelity, but not one that
starts with "Ethan proved(to Ethan)." :->)
I also loved this: "there are so many problems with this 'scientific'
comparison i don't know where to start."
Right, they never know where to start. All they have is "you're wrong"
but they can never explain why I'm wrong or what is right. So all that's
left is insults like these from the thread:
Ethan believes Ethan is right till Ethan finds
Ethan was wrong and Ethan can make money !
That guy Ethan is a huge troll, the hugest.
I like Ethan, I just feel his testing material
always has a low quality to it
Then there's the clueless:
I'm no expert, but I think it's pretty nuts and
bolts to say jitter is indeed the enemy, it
represents accuracy
It's clear that tonycamphd is not an expert. But there's nothing I could
possibly say in that thread to convince him that jitter is irrelevant. I
could post scientific test results showing that people cannot hear
jitter even when it's ten times greater than any typical converter, yet
he will not be swayed. And that is exactly the problem.
--Ethan"
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Post by tonycamphd on Jun 19, 2015 14:49:45 GMT -6
I personally like jazznoise's posts. So he's a little verbose and a little fiery, so what? This isn't Singapore is it? Surely there's room for some dissent in opinion (even if it comes a little strong out of the gate....) without a verbal caning? That Ethan/stripper video though...what the hell is going on there?! That is one of the oddest things I've ever seen. Yeah, I'm all for saying what u feel, but projecting into people's state of being and name calling are horse shit, that's a rabbit hole that ends with the word slutz, u guys like that? |
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Post by ragan on Jun 19, 2015 15:02:22 GMT -6
I personally like jazznoise's posts. So he's a little verbose and a little fiery, so what? This isn't Singapore is it? Surely there's room for some dissent in opinion (even if it comes a little strong out of the gate....) without a verbal caning? That Ethan/stripper video though...what the hell is going on there?! That is one of the oddest things I've ever seen. Yeah, I'm all for saying what u feel, but projecting into people's state of being and name calling are horse shit, that's a rabbit hole that ends with the word slutz, u guys like that? Actually I just reread the first page and jazznoise's first couple posts had no name-calling, no insults. Then a bunch of back and forth happened and things got all snarky on all sides. I didn't care about Ethan Winer on GS and care even less after watching that incredibly awkward T&A/standing-waves video (so weird!!) so I've got nothing against a dogpile. I just don't happen to think jazznoise was being unreasonable. Seems everyone got their panties in a bunch in the back and forth. Happens to the best of us. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Jun 19, 2015 15:46:08 GMT -6
I emailed Ethan to let him know about this thread and see if he wanted to come join the conversation but he said he rather not if its just gonna be insults thrown around . He told me I could post his email as a response , "Yes, they twist and argue and throw insults. That's why I said I'm glad to be part of a thread that discusses audio fidelity, but not one that starts with "Ethan proved(to Ethan)." :->) I also loved this: "there are so many problems with this 'scientific' comparison i don't know where to start." Right, they never know where to start. All they have is "you're wrong" but they can never explain why I'm wrong or what is right. So all that's left is insults like these from the thread: Ethan believes Ethan is right till Ethan finds Ethan was wrong and Ethan can make money ! That guy Ethan is a huge troll, the hugest. I like Ethan, I just feel his testing material always has a low quality to it Then there's the clueless: I'm no expert, but I think it's pretty nuts and bolts to say jitter is indeed the enemy, it represents accuracy It's clear that tonycamphd is not an expert. But there's nothing I could possibly say in that thread to convince him that jitter is irrelevant. I could post scientific test results showing that people cannot hear jitter even when it's ten times greater than any typical converter, yet he will not be swayed. And that is exactly the problem. --Ethan" Ok Mr. "Exposed", pass the brick from ur smug little ivory tower, and have someone else throw it for u, talk about cowardice. Truth is, titling ur little test as "exposed" is the smug shit that made me start this thread to begin with, now it's turned a fucking circus! but I'll humor this horseshit anyway.. Let me explain yet again why I think ur test is shit Ethan, BECAUSE THE FIDELITY OF UR EXAMPLES IS BAD, U CANT EXPECT TO SHOW DIFFS IN CONVERSION QUALITY WHEN CLARITY, IMAGE QUALIY, SOLIDITY, DYNAMICS, DEPTH, AND FREQUENCY RANGE ARE NOT THERE TO BE AFFECTED, how many times do I have to say that's the way I see it? Does anyone read the threads before they post? I've reacted to insults, I haven't insulted anyone beyond a little snark up to now(Apparently it's ok to call names now considering the A-ok and likes?). Again, I agree with some of the stuff Ethan's presented, and some I don't, HE set the controls on this test that IMO delivered 3 bad sounding results that I aspire to surpass with my effort, it renders his test utterly invalid to Me, So their ya go pal, that's my story and I'm sticking to it. peace 8) nice degrading massaganistic porn flick ad btw, is that another one of ur brilliant ideas? I think I'm going to go into business building diffusers and traps considering all the customers ur going to lose because of that whopper of an idea. |
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Post by Guitar on Jun 19, 2015 16:03:30 GMT -6
Um...lets stop. There is an ignore feature if you click on someone's profile... ...I like to reading what monkeyxx has got to say...no disrespect meant to him in terms of his posts...but the avatar...still disturbing... ...oh, sorry...you were referring to that "other guy"... Thanks Kidvybes I don't know if this helps your disturbance at all, but Sphagett is a comedy character from Tim & Eric's show. I feel like I could use a good laugh right now anyway. Nothing like a harsh conflict every 3 months to keep the internet just as advertised and expected. I think trolling is pretty well ingrained into anonymous online discussion. I've had enough for now. Anyway here is Spaghett: |
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Post by Guitar on Jun 19, 2015 16:09:42 GMT -6
I personally like jazznoise's posts. So he's a little verbose and a little fiery, so what? This isn't Singapore is it? Surely there's room for some dissent in opinion (even if it comes a little strong out of the gate....) without a verbal caning? That Ethan/stripper video though...what the hell is going on there?! That is one of the oddest things I've ever seen. Yeah, I'm all for saying what u feel, but projecting into people's state of being and name calling are horse shit, that's a rabbit hole that ends with the word slutz, u guys like that? Yep, past a certain point it gets to be bullying. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 19, 2015 16:20:02 GMT -6
I haven't even read what you posted, Scum...but Ethan got his panties in a wad and said he was too good for this board...so, I think we can live without him. BTW - if he can't hear the differences in converters, then he has a problem with his hearing.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jun 19, 2015 16:24:06 GMT -6
I think he actually made some dramatic gesture like asking me to erase his profile - which I did...
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I actually liked a lot of the posts here that were more...constructive. Lots of talent on this forum. Thanks John Kenn I just used the ignore feature.
