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Post by scumbum on Sept 4, 2013 16:11:50 GMT -6
Hey Guys, Maybe you'd like to check out a clip of a song I did with Eddie Seville and his band in my little room? The clip is Eddie tracking the drums, to the tune. In between our chatter, you can hear the sound of the kit using 4 Cloud Ribbon mics. We were looking for a particular sound for this record, and on this track we really got it. The mics are wonderful. I thought that this might give some of you an idea of what is capable in a smaller room, with proper mic'ing techniques, and the correct instrument, & mic choices you can make beautiful music. On this track I also used the Cloud Mics (2x) on the upright bass! Enjoy... Freakn Awesome !! Love the sound and mic technique . Maybe instead of nobtwiddler , us lowly peasants should call you " Master nobtwiddler " . So I recorded a short clip of my small room . It was built in my garage a loooooong time ago as a place for band practice . I knew nothing about recording , so all I focused on at the time was making it sound proof so I could play all night and the neighbors wouldn't hear anything . That I accomplished , but its a strange small dead room . The audio clip is just two mics , one overhead and one in the kick . The ride is a cheap ride cymbal , so it doesn't sound that great . No EQ , No Compression , Nothing . www.dropbox.com/s/mkn3qdwtt9et607/Band%20Room%20Drums.mp3 |
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Post by jazznoise on Sept 4, 2013 16:22:51 GMT -6
Hey Scum! If you open your Dropbox folder, right click on the file and get the public link then we can see it. Current link wont open!
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Post by scumbum on Sept 4, 2013 17:04:02 GMT -6
Hey Scum! If you open your Dropbox folder, right click on the file and get the public link then we can see it. Current link wont open! Oh , thanks dude ! I edited the post with a different Link . |
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Post by jazznoise on Sept 4, 2013 17:24:29 GMT -6
Wow, that's alot of kick drum! It sounds like a garage - which is a cool thing, to me. If you pulled away some of the high end absorption and got a little diffusion going it'd be a nice sound for a punk/garage rock sound (and paid off the neighbors, I guess).
Small rooms are so distinct - I think because we spend so much time in them. I get this very strong perception of a space with small room sounds.
Cheap drum hardware is always a problem - the recording I posted is a beat up drum kit with really old skins, the floor tom is help up by a box and the cymbals are all spares from other drummers. Sort of the anti-thesis to your regular Prog/Jazz kit, but it makes it a little more aggressive.
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Post by tonycamphd on Sept 4, 2013 17:40:10 GMT -6
hey scum, the kick mic throws off the impression a little?, tracking with one mic and compressing reveals the room a little better(are we evaluating your small room here?), but that aside, the room actually sounds as you describe it...sound proofed, i'm guessing wall to wall to ceiling and ceiling carpet? I'd lower your cymbals, and or change the overhead to pick up less of them, they're louder than your snare in my monitors(thats why i guess all the carpet), also, i'd wake up that room with some hard surfaces in places? MO of course.
good luck with it
T
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2013 18:44:55 GMT -6
I've been doing drums in a 10x10 box for years. Yes you can, you need a killer drummer and a good kit. Room mics through convolution will help a lot.
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Post by Ward on Sept 7, 2013 11:53:35 GMT -6
Something worthy of note... it was common practice for nearly 20 years to record drums in a small booth off to the side of a large recording room. In view of this, recording drums in a small room shouldn't be perceived as any kind of limitation or compromise.
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Post by scumbum on Sept 7, 2013 12:33:45 GMT -6
Something worthy of note... it was common practice for nearly 20 years to record drums in a small booth off to the side of a large recording room. In view of this, recording drums in a small room shouldn't be perceived as any kind of limitation or compromise. Interesting . What time period were they doing this , or song examples ? |
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Post by tonycamphd on Sept 7, 2013 12:51:15 GMT -6
IME, I remember the first time i realized i didn't like small rooms for drums, we were tracking some hard rock tunes at signature sound san diego in 1990-2(they had an SSL at that time), we put the drums in their booth, none of us liked the result, we re tracked the drums in the "big room", it was astonishingly better. Since then, I always pick a big room over small, seems way easier to make it work, with less surprises, but making a small room work is very doable, especially when it's YOUR small room IMO
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Post by svart on Sept 7, 2013 16:48:26 GMT -6
Something worthy of note... it was common practice for nearly 20 years to record drums in a small booth off to the side of a large recording room. In view of this, recording drums in a small room shouldn't be perceived as any kind of limitation or compromise. Can't agree with this more. The "big room" idea is a misnomer. I think the problem people have with it is the predelay length. Small rooms have very little, so the sound is kind of mushy and cluttered. With big rooms, the predelay is much longer and allows the attack of the drum to come through before the first slap back. Also, as sound travels ththrough air, it's attenuated, so in larger rooms, the reverb is more subtle too. If you have a small room, use more close mic, and use digital reverb with long predelay and turn it down a tad. Boom. Done. |
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Post by Ward on Sept 9, 2013 23:05:04 GMT -6
Something worthy of note... it was common practice for nearly 20 years to record drums in a small booth off to the side of a large recording room. In view of this, recording drums in a small room shouldn't be perceived as any kind of limitation or compromise. Interesting . What time period were they doing this , or song examples ? End of the 60s, all the 1970s, part of the 80s. Virtually every song you heard. Listen to the Eagles Long Run and Hotel California albums. THAT sound. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Sept 10, 2013 1:35:28 GMT -6
I thought i read something to the contrary regarding the eagles, here's from SOS interview, the green is not part of the quote, i looked up studio C. here's the link www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep10/articles/classic-tracks-0910.htm"Eagles producer Bill Szymczyk tells us how it happened. The first two versions of ‘Hotel California’ were recorded in LA, the third and final one was cut in Miami, and as with the rest of the album, the band members recorded live together in both studios. “Meisner’s bass was gobo’d off and I’d take it direct as well as through a small Ampeg amp,” Szymczyk recalls. “Henley, on the other hand, I tried to keep as open as possible, so I didn’t use a drum booth, the live room at criteria measured 25' x 32 ' x 16', where the final cut of hotel california was tracked. However, I did use iso booths for the acoustic guitars and there were gobos for the electrics." |
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Post by Ward on Sept 10, 2013 10:49:43 GMT -6
I stand corrected. I had heard otherwise.
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Post by scumbum on Sept 10, 2013 11:45:53 GMT -6
Interesting . What time period were they doing this , or song examples ? End of the 60s, all the 1970s, part of the 80s. Virtually every song you heard. Listen to the Eagles Long Run and Hotel California albums. THAT sound. What was the average size drum room back then , how high were the ceilings ? I have to say I like that drum sound . How about ACDC in the 70's , small drum booth ? |
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Post by Ward on Sept 10, 2013 20:41:47 GMT -6
Don't know about all that. I started in the early 80s as a teenager, gopher boy, session vocalist and pianist. I do remember a few spots where the typical drum booth was 8' by 12' with 8' ceilings.
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Post by scumbum on Sept 10, 2013 21:23:52 GMT -6
Don't know about all that. I started in the early 80s as a teenager, gopher boy, session vocalist and pianist. I do remember a few spots where the typical drum booth was 8' by 12' with 8' ceilings. Crazy , thats the typical size of a bedroom ! Were they completely dead with carpet on the floor ? |
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Post by tonycamphd on Sept 10, 2013 22:17:39 GMT -6
Crazy , thats the typical size of a bedroom ! Were they completely dead with carpet on the floor ? I can speak of "signature sound" drum booth, it was a bedroom size, and no it was not completely dead, i think the reflections coming back to mics so quick is why we didn't like the sound, it robbed power, and washed out the sound. A good thing to do in your small room, is put the kit more centered, as to avoid being too close to walls, and use small gobos or absorbers directly behind your mics that a subject to early reflections. this way you don't have to kill the whole room to get some separation between source and reflections. |
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Post by Ward on Sept 11, 2013 7:51:53 GMT -6
Crazy , thats the typical size of a bedroom ! Were they completely dead with carpet on the floor ? I can speak of "signature sound" drum booth, it was a bedroom size, and no it was not completely dead, i think the reflections coming back to mics so quick is why we didn't like the sound, it robbed power, and washed out the sound. A good thing to do in your small room, is put the kit more centered, as to avoid being too close to walls, and use small gobos or absorbers directly behind your mics that a subject to early reflections. this way you don't have to kill the whole room to get some separation between source and reflections. On the floor and on the walls too!! With acoustical tiles on the ceilings also. |
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Post by scumbum on Sept 13, 2013 15:30:41 GMT -6
If I was going for the 70's sound , what Overhead placement did they use the most ? Spaced Pair or XY ?
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Post by scumbum on Sept 13, 2013 16:01:21 GMT -6
Also when did noise gates come out ? When did they start gating drums ?
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Post by Ward on Sept 15, 2013 17:33:25 GMT -6
If I was going for the 70's sound , what Overhead placement did they use the most ? Spaced Pair or XY ? Spaced Pair. AB or ABC (left, center, right placement and panned accordingly in the mix). Gating drums was really an 80s thing. And it sounds REALLY dated. |
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Post by scumbum on Sept 16, 2013 9:32:38 GMT -6
Just for fun ....and maybe for a few songs , I'm gonna try and get the perfect 70's drum sound . Just putting a wallet on the snare turns it into instant 70's snare . I have all the ingredients , 1969 Rodgers Kit , small dead room . I'll post some samples and you guys can tell me if I pulled it off .
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Post by drumrec on Sept 17, 2013 2:20:03 GMT -6
Yee!! Sounds like you have a good set-up there bro. Looking forward to hearing it  |
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Post by Ward on Sept 17, 2013 6:51:39 GMT -6
Just for fun ....and maybe for a few songs , I'm gonna try and get the perfect 70's drum sound . Just putting a wallet on the snare turns it into instant 70's snare . I have all the ingredients , 1969 Rodgers Kit , small dead room . I'll post some samples and you guys can tell me if I pulled it off . Don't forget to remove the front head of the kick, put two well folded up packing blankets in there and weight them down with a cinder block (or a couple of heavy bricks), mic it with an AKG D12 out in front too... and don't use any EQ. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Sept 17, 2013 9:17:28 GMT -6
Senheiser MD 421's close on toms?
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