|
Post by kidvybes on May 7, 2015 7:48:05 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by kidvybes on May 8, 2015 12:38:43 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by kidvybes on May 11, 2015 13:29:14 GMT -6
...I just inquired about the progress of the C12 capsule-based Warbler series...I was told that the first of these 3 variants was completed and pics of the revised circuit were attached...along with the edge-terminated C12-style capsule, the "Warbler V" features a 12:1-ratio T14-style dual-bobbin transformer (much like the historic AKG C12 and Telefunken ELAM 251)... ...so this will be the first of 3 solid-state variants of C12/251-inspired FET mics... ...like the previous K67 and K47 based Warbler FET mics, each of these have the 3-voice switching option...
|
|
wagz
Full Member
Posts: 19
|
Post by wagz on May 11, 2015 17:34:56 GMT -6
kidvybes, (this is OT) do those enhanced audio mounts make a big difference in the tone that you get from your mics? They sure do look cool. These mics are interesting.Thank you for the clips!
|
|
|
Post by kidvybes on May 11, 2015 20:23:45 GMT -6
kidvybes, (this is OT) do those enhanced audio stands make a big difference in the tone that you get from your mics? They sure do look cool. These mics are interesting.Thank you for the clips! ...there is a small compromise when going from a true "shock" mount to a non-suspended design like the EA M600, but I have to say the 6-point clamping-effect does seem to bring out the clarity and fine detail in the mics I've used these mounts with so far...for my use, these were more than worthwhile investments...makes changing mics a breeze, and makes even inexpensive mics, like these 3U mics, look (and sound) more impressive, which seems to motivate singers to really step-up their game... ...I've stored all my other mounts in their respective cases, and for now, these EA M600s are locking down my mic collection...
|
|
|
Post by ragan on May 11, 2015 21:06:11 GMT -6
kidvybes, (this is OT) do those enhanced audio stands make a big difference in the tone that you get from your mics? They sure do look cool. These mics are interesting.Thank you for the clips! ...there is a small compromise when going from a true "shock" mount to a non-suspended design like the EA M600, but I have to say the 6-point clamping-effect does seem to bring out the clarity and fine detail in the mics I've used these mounts with so far...for my use, these were more than worthwhile investments...makes changing mics a breeze, and makes even inexpensive mics, like these 3U mics, look (and sound) more impressive, which seems to motivate singers to really step-up their game... ...I've stored all my other mounts in their respective cases, and for now, these EA M600s are locking down my mic collection... I had no idea mounts could change the sonics of a mic at all (other than keeping out vibrations from the floor etc)? How do they enhance clarity?
|
|
|
Post by kidvybes on May 12, 2015 7:51:10 GMT -6
I had no idea mounts could change the sonics of a mic at all (other than keeping out vibrations from the floor etc)? How do they enhance clarity? ...these mounts have been around for close to ten years now, and if you do some searching on the web, the testimonials are plentiful and express very similar positive results...improved clarity in the mids, tighter, better defined low frequencies...keep in mind, these mounts currently go for less than half the cost that they were sold for when first introduced (currently about $106 US)...here is the company's own explanation on why it works: "The M600's unique design offers increased musical headroom and greater dynamic transient capability. This is achieved by a unique method of minimum contact mounting, using this method enables the body of the microphone and capsule to remain stationary and the only thing moving is the sound wave. Similar to when a camera is placed on a tripod you get a clearer image due to the reduced movement of the camera or when a speaker is placed on a heavy-duty speaker stand, tighter bass, cleaner treble and improved detail. The M600 breaks away from the convention of suspension mounting by clamping the microphone within two low resonant aluminum rings. These rings are precision drilled and tapped at three points. At each of the three points an adjustable mounting screw is inserted, attached to the screw by way of a ballpoint socket is a techno polymer plastic (Delrin) thrust pad. The thrust pads align themselves on to the surface of the microphone and thus prevent the rotating force of the adjustment screws being transmitted to the microphone. When mounting the microphone, the microphone is held by hand within the center of the rings until each screw, a total of six is adjusted to make contact with the microphone. This method of mounting the microphone within six minimum points of contact also reduces low-level mechanical vibrations below 20Hz. It's natural to assume that these infrasonic vibrations due to their lack of audibility within the human ears frequency response do not have any significant effect on the normal operation and frequency response of a microphone, but in tests and in practice we believe that they most certainly do. Theory is one thing, reality another, technical specifications are important but we believe that there is nothing that goes beyond your own personal experience and listening with your own ears." Then there's the review from Tape Op: "The first time I saw this sucker, I was a little skeptical. Why does just about every large-diaphragm condenser mic come standard with a suspension shockmount ? Because a shockmount isolates the mic from vibration and therefore "enhances" the mic's performance… or so I thought. The M600 takes the opposite approach. It uses six screw-down clamps to hold the body of a mic solidly within the center of two low-resonance aluminum rings. This thing is massive. (You need a serious mic stand to hold it up.) And even though you're only finger-tightening the clamps, the mic ain't goin' nowhere. Even the assembly to adjust tilt is super-solid. Once you tighten it, the heaviest of mics will stay in position. My only gripe about the physical design is that even with two hands, it's hard to get all the clamps aligned onto the mic body (being careful not to use too much force). Even the tilt control requires the finesse of both hands. But once it's all adjusted and you've got your mic in place, get ready for a serious revelation. My first use of the M600 was to hold a Groove Tubes GT50 FET in front of my studio kick drum. I was blown away by how tightly focused the thump of the kick sounded and how nicely the drum resonated. But still skeptical, I carefully marked the position of the mic and swapped out the M600 for the GT50's suspension mount. A good deal of clarity went away. I switched back to the M600, and that focus was definitely back. My skepticism disappeared. I should state here that I was using a Seventh Circle Audio A12/SC25 mic preamp and listening on ADAM S3A monitors with a Bag End InfraSUB‑12 Pro subwoofer in my well-tuned control room. The other thing I noticed was that I could turn up the volume much higher before the Bag End's dynamic filter kicked in because there was less infrasonic energy (below 20 Hz) in the sound. I tried further tests with a GT60 tube condenser on vocals, and again, I could hear a difference in focus. Bass and guitar amps? Yup. I also did some comparisons with non-suspension mic clips, and here too I could here a difference, although the change in clarity was a bit more subtle. I think that the M600 is accomplishing two things. First, it prevents the mic from vibrating infrasonically due to extreme changes in air pressure or even from direct blasts of air. This prevents smearing (modulation) of the frequencies the mic is supposed to be picking up. Second, it prevents the mic from resonating at frequencies within the range of the sound it's capturing, thereby reducing mud. So there is some real science behind it, but your first reaction after seeing the $275 street price might be that science doesn't come cheap. Well, think of the M600 as something that can upgrade the sound of every single mic in your cabinet, and you'll realize what a great deal it is!"
|
|
|
Post by lpedrum on May 12, 2015 8:17:52 GMT -6
I learned a new word today--infrasonic! Seriously though, what they're saying about the mount makes sense.
|
|
|
Post by kidvybes on May 13, 2015 13:06:28 GMT -6
...I tried something interesting today...I had to set up a mic for a client today and I thought it would make for a revealing comparison to one of the 3U Warbler-series microphones... ...the mic that was requested by my client is an Ioaudio MK-47, which is one of the GroupDIY U47 clone microphones, one model below the top-of-the-line MK-U47...this MK-47 employs a full-size BV.08 reproduction transformer, a pair of NOS RCA 408a (gold-pin) pentode tubes, and an HK-47 capsule skinned by capsule-builder Eric Heiserman...the MK-47 equates easily to a $2K+ U47-style clone... ...I chose to compare it on VO (my New-Yawk talk) with the 3U Warbler II which also employs a K47-style capsule and BV.08 transformer, but is a FET-type rather than tube-microphone... ...I think the comparison is rather striking, considering the vast differential in the cost of the two mics ($2K+ vs. $299)...the Warbler II comes in at 1:38 of the recorded file: TO HEAR SOUNDFILE CLICK ON: app.box.com/s/8gtcrdcx85s2784mmlyklu6f45135gy4Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by ragan on May 14, 2015 10:51:23 GMT -6
My Warbler I came yesterday and I had a (very) quick play with it. Only had like 10 minutes before a mix session but I tracked a little acoustic guitar through it and I was impressed. I'll get more time with it in the next few days.
Gonna get to listen to your latest clip later today, KidV.
|
|
|
Post by ragan on May 14, 2015 17:41:42 GMT -6
Here is a quick test I did with a Warbler I and an AKG 414b-ULS. In the Warbler I clip, both guitars are tracked with the Warbler I, in the 414 clip, they're both the 414.
https%3A//soundcloud.com/raganandtheragans/414b-uls-acoustic-test https%3A//soundcloud.com/raganandtheragans/warbler-i-acoustic-test
|
|
|
Post by kidvybes on May 14, 2015 18:10:39 GMT -6
Interesting...I think I prefer the Warbler, but they are somewhat similar...on the picked part, the guitar's sustain seems to be more clear in the Warbler I file...what was your impression Ragan?
|
|
|
Post by ragan on May 14, 2015 18:43:10 GMT -6
Interesting...I think I prefer the Warbler, but they are somewhat similar...on the picked part, the guitar's sustain seems to be more clear in the Warbler I file...what was your impression Ragan? I didn't have an immediate, strong preference. I should post the totally dry files too. The clips above have some HPF and a touch of UAD LA2a Grey. The 414b-ULS is doing it's Neutral With Some Meat thing that I like. The Warbler I is definitely more present in the upper miss, but it (in my minimal testing) seems smooth. I think it sounds quite a bit like a U87.
|
|
|
Post by ragan on May 14, 2015 20:49:03 GMT -6
Interesting...I think I prefer the Warbler, but they are somewhat similar...on the picked part, the guitar's sustain seems to be more clear in the Warbler I file...what was your impression Ragan? Just came back to the clips. I hear what you mean and I prefer the Warbler I too. It has a nice reach into the sound. Makes the 414b-ULS sound maybe a tad veiled in this context? That's something I've noticed with my 414's. It's something I like in a lot of cases. Here I prefer the 'classic' sound that the Warbler I has. I'm half tempted to go rent the vintage U87 I've used a good bit just to do an A/B. Don't really have time to do that at the moment though. I'm very interested to try the Warbler I on electric guitars and vocals.
|
|
|
Post by kidvybes on May 15, 2015 11:18:32 GMT -6
I'm half tempted to go rent the vintage U87 I've used a good bit just to do an A/B. Don't really have time to do that at the moment though. I'm very interested to try the Warbler I on electric guitars and vocals. ...yeah, it's inevitable that someone shoots out the Warbler I and an older U87...Guosheng told me his K67 capsule tuning is based on a 70's U87......when a mic designer of this guy's experience builds his own proprietary designs and incorporates his own tuned capsules, trannies combined with top-shelf Dale, WIMA, Fairchild components, and good QC/build-quality, we all benefit... ...IMHO, the Warbler-series mics are affordable FET options that directly correspond to the classics: Warbler I (K67 capsule + 9.5:1 transformer) = Neumann U87 Warbler II (K47 capsule + 6.5:1 transformer) = Neumann U47/FET 47 Warbler III-V (C12 capsule + 12:1 transformer) = AKG C12 thru Telefunken ELAM251 voicings ...this is a very similar approach to that taken rather successfully by ADK and their new classic FET and tube Z-Mod lines...I just hope that the "Warbler-series" low street-price doesn't deter serious AEs from trying them...they clearly punch way above their price-class...
|
|
|
Post by ragan on May 15, 2015 11:44:21 GMT -6
I'm half tempted to go rent the vintage U87 I've used a good bit just to do an A/B. Don't really have time to do that at the moment though. I'm very interested to try the Warbler I on electric guitars and vocals. ...yeah, it's inevitable that someone shoots out the Warbler I and an older U87...Guosheng told me his K67 capsule tuning is based on a 70's U87......when a mic designer of this guy's experience builds his own proprietary designs and incorporates his own tuned capsules, trannies combined with top-shelf Dale, WIMA, Fairchild components, and good QC/build-quality, we all benefit... ...IMHO, the Warbler-series mics are affordable FET options that directly correspond to the classics: Warbler I (K67 capsule + 9.5:1 transformer) = Neumann U87 Warbler II (K47 capsule + 6.5:1 transformer) = Neumann U47/FET 47 Warbler III-V (C12 capsule + 12:1 transformer) = AKG C12 thru Telefunken ELAM251 voicings ...this is a very similar approach to that taken rather successfully by ADK and their new classic FET and tube Z-Mod lines...I just hope that the "Warbler-series" low street-price doesn't deter serious AEs from trying them...they clearly punch way above their price-class... Eff serious AE's! I just wanna buy em up while they're cheap : ) Kidding. Sort of. Mics aren't magic, they're physics. If an AE is too snobby to look at a circuit rather than a badge, that's their own fault. Edit: easy for me to say. I record myself in the studio I built. If I had clients to impress/attract, I might care more about badges too.
|
|
|
Post by kidvybes on May 20, 2015 19:39:36 GMT -6
...waiting for my Warbler V (251 inspired) to clear US Customs...
|
|
|
Post by ragan on May 20, 2015 21:59:22 GMT -6
...waiting for my Warbler V (251 inspired) to clear US Customs... Real interested to hear that mic.
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on May 21, 2015 9:35:53 GMT -6
Great stuff kidvybes, thanks for sharing this. I have a few things in mind. I'm low on cash, so in no rush, but would like to get a few different mics at some point. I have a friend who's loaned me his KM84's a few times, and I'd love a Neumann KM84 of my own, but that's not feasible now. I had the Bock Audio 195 before my Blackspade. I found the pickup pattern was a little too wide for a lead vocal mic, but it was one of the sweetest acoustic guitar mics I've ever heard. My Blackspade's good on acoustic's too, but I'd love to have some choices, to prevent every track from hitting at the same frequencies. I tried the Little Blondies and they were too tinny, the Neumann K84 had the SDC focus, but was full bodied too.
So, I'd like to start with a good acoustic guitar mic, and then maybe another vocal mic. My friend just bought the Cascade Vin-Jet with the AMI transformer, and it's flawless. It sounds like it sounds, but there isn't a harsh tone on it. That might be an affordable choice to round out my productions, but I'd like a less expensive guitar mic first. Even the KM 184 is over my budget. I was considering the Guage-USA mics. Their U87 clone actually sound like a U87, but a little edgier, so for $149, it's a great starter kit for someone. Their sound files comparing the k184 to the Guage ECM-84 aren't bad either, though not stellar. If the 3U Audio is a better acoustic guitar. mic, I'd be interested. I wish I could hear something with the "black" and "Teal" compared. I'd almost order one right away if I could hear the difference and then choose.
I do hate that C12 color though.. Black or steel or matte steel would do. But if the Teal worked better for me, I'd still get it.
*just noticed Ragan's clips. I prefer the AKG. I hear the Warbler is a little cleaner, but I like the slightly fuller tone of the solo notes, even if the Warbler's more accurate. Still, the Warbler's impressive, and viable for sure.
|
|
|
Post by warrenfirehouse on May 21, 2015 9:45:24 GMT -6
Just got a pair of the teal cm1s in the mail. played around with some vocals last night and was instantly impressed. I cant believe how smooth the top is for a mic this cheap. Putting up the pair as drum overheads on sat and I will report back.
|
|
|
Post by kidvybes on May 21, 2015 10:05:02 GMT -6
Great stuff kidvybes, thanks for sharing this. I have a few things in mind. I'm low on cash, so in no rush, but would like to get a few different mics at some point. I have a friend who's loaned me his KM84's a few times, and I'd love a Neumann KM84 of my own, but that's not feasible now. I had the Bock Audio 195 before my Blackspade. I found the pickup pattern was a little too wide for a lead vocal mic, but it was one of the sweetest acoustic guitar mics I've ever heard. My Blackspade's good on acoustic's too, but I'd love to have some choices, to prevent every track from hitting at the same frequencies. I tried the Little Blondies and they were too tinny, the Neumann K84 had the SDC focus, but was full bodied too. So, I'd like to start with a good acoustic guitar mic, and then maybe another vocal mic. My friend just bought the Cascade Vin-Jet with the AMI transformer, and it's flawless. It sounds like it sounds, but there isn't a harsh tone on it. That might be an affordable choice to round out my productions, but I'd like a less expensive guitar mic first. Even the KM 184 is over my budget. I was considering the Guage-USA mics. Their U87 clone actually sound like a U87, but a little edgier, so for $149, it's a great starter kit for someone. Their sound files comparing the k184 to the Guage ECM-84 aren't bad either, though not stellar. If the 3U Audio is a better acoustic guitar. mic, I'd be interested. I wish I could hear something with the "black" and "Teal" compared. I'd almost order one right away if I could hear the difference and then choose. I do hate that C12 color though.. Black or steel or matte steel would do. But if the Teal worked better for me, I'd still get it. Bro, I recommend you correspond directly with the engineer behind these 3U Audio mics and ask for his recommendations...he is very accessible and straight-forward...no sales pitches or hype...these mics are truly exceptional at these pricepoints...as more of these mics find their way into the hands of capable AEs, trust me, the buzz will build... I know where the Gauge mics come from and how they are built...good, but not like these Warbler mics...not even close!...I hesitate to put much weight on the manufacturer's own sound-file comparisons...nuff said... You can reach 3U Audio AE/designer Guosheng Zhuang directly at: 3uaudio@gmail.com Feel free to be specific about your needs and applications, and your budget...you will get straight talk...he's been making some very impressive deals for some of my associates on these CM-series and Warbler-series mics...even the $125 (shipped!) CM-series which incorporate some SMC components, still employ WIMA, Dale and Panasonic components for the audio-output section of the circuit as well as Toshiba FETs...but IMHO, the Warbler-series are the money-shot...did you listen to my file comparing the $299 (shipped!) Warbler II to my Ioaudio MK-47?...not too shabby... BTW, I also use the Cascade Victor long-ribbon mics with the Lundahl tranny and they are excellent...
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on May 21, 2015 10:07:03 GMT -6
Big thanks kidvybes. If you ever get to NYC, give me a shout.
Oops, missed the MK-47/Warbler II comparison, link please :-)
|
|
|
Post by ragan on May 21, 2015 10:13:07 GMT -6
Big thanks kidvybes. If you ever get to NYC, give me a shout. Oops, missed the MK-47/Warbler II comparison, link please :-) It's on the previous page, MJB. And judging by KidVybes's pipes, he gets to New Yawk plenty!
|
|
|
Post by Martin John Butler on May 21, 2015 10:22:53 GMT -6
Just went back, great posts and soundfiles guys.
I'm liking the Warbler 1 a lot. I hear a little sizzle/whistle on "Esses", but it sounds really good. My first interest is a guitar mic though, so since the Teal is listed as a "guitar mic", that's probably where I'd look. So far, the closest thing I've heard to a U87 that's lower priced is the Mojave MA-300. I'd love to hear a shootout between the Warbler 1 and the Mojave.
|
|
|
Post by guitfiddler on May 21, 2015 10:24:08 GMT -6
I am interested to hear the 251 as well.
|
|