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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 25, 2015 18:44:09 GMT -6
I do understand mrholmes ;-)
Unfortunately, or fortunately, I'm not sure, I like the EMT-140 and LA-2 too much to lose them, and I'm looking forward to getting the Ocean Way plug when I can afford it.
At least the installation of the update worked flawlessly, I really do appreciate that.
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Post by mrholmes on Feb 25, 2015 19:04:29 GMT -6
I do understand mrholmes ;-) Unfortunately, or fortunately, I'm not sure, I like the EMT-140 and LA-2 too much to lose them. Actually I just use a few ones of all the ones I bought. 1176 / LA2A / EMT 140 / EMT 250 / Dimension D / Percisson Maximaizer There are native versions too. I will test drive in the next weeks and will let you know how they comapre. I just cant justifiy the UAD stuff anymore. 1. The plugs are way too expensive. 2. The card is still worth something on the used market. 3. I do not use the DSP power on the Quad. 4. I do not like thier politics anymore, they over do it for my taste. 5. DSP driven plugs belong to the past soon. 6. Ditch your card beofre they go native... they will I am sure. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 25, 2015 19:23:37 GMT -6
I have the Apollo, and it's been a true workhorse for me, as I mainly record at home in my living room. I am pissed about the Thunderbolt card costing early adopters $500 and being included in the new models. Slate's not the only one causing some pain to their customers.
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Post by mrholmes on Feb 25, 2015 20:17:11 GMT -6
I have the Apollo, and it's been a true workhorse for me, as I mainly record at home in my living room. I am pissed about the Thunderbolt card costing early adopters $500 and being included in the new models. Slate's not the only one causing some pain to their customers. I had too much trouble with UAD. If you tell them they do not care…. I decided not to care for thier products anymore. For example the Ampex thingie is 300$ and did not sound anything like my old M15 A …. I was like WTF they are doing? I found a 30 $ tape simulation which is spot on what the master machine did….. I love this plug in to death. It even reacts like tape if you drive it too HOT. Tape is nothing like most of the sims, its not an effect like night and day. www.toneboosters.com/tb-reelbus/ |
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 25, 2015 20:50:45 GMT -6
I have the Apollo, and it's been a true workhorse for me, as I mainly record at home in my living room. I am pissed about the Thunderbolt card costing early adopters $500 and being included in the new models. Slate's not the only one causing some pain to their customers. I had too much trouble with UAD. If you tell them they do not care…. I decided not to care for thier products anymore. For example the Ampex thingie is 300$ and did not sound anything like my old M15 A …. I was like WTF they are doing? I found a 30 $ tape simulation which is spot on what the master machine did….. I love this plug in to death. It even reacts like tape if you drive it too HOT. Tape is nothing like most of the sims, its not an effect like night and day. www.toneboosters.com/tb-reelbus/Thanks, mrholmes - have to check that one out. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 25, 2015 22:24:11 GMT -6
I had Slate's tape sim. It was so buggy they let me exchange it for another plug. I did get to hear it though, and was underwhelmed. To the contrary, UAD's Ampex is superb, and I've used tape a lot.
I checked that link out mrholmes, thanks for that. I felt it was very distorted, but they might have done that for the purpose of showing just how far it can go. Still, it's good to hear a different flavor like a Revox.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 26, 2015 11:10:43 GMT -6
So, Martin John Butler, I'm beginning to get the impression that you're not a Slate fan... |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 26, 2015 12:57:53 GMT -6
I guess it's fair to say that John, but actually, I'm sort of on the fence about it. My experience was unusual. The buggy tape sim can be forgiven, and for 99.8% of the FG-X owners, they might have been disappointed, but in truth the product does what they bought it to do.
There's no guarantee a company has to upgrade anything, unless they agree to it. I like that Slate's shooting for the moon with their VMS and their touch screen systems, and hope it all works out. I do think Steven needs to dial the hypometer down 20db though.
I use the VBC all the time and it works really well, so there's hope yet for them yet.
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Post by ragan on Feb 26, 2015 13:45:01 GMT -6
Slate's issue is NOT pre-announcing products (We're working on FG-69 or VCS: Virtual Cable Simulator!) it's promising specific delivery - and missing that date (and a series of new ones) by a country mile. This is made worse by Steven's, let's call them over enthusiastic exaggerations. He'll post that he's using the 6th console in VCC1 before VCC1 was released and that "he can't wait for us to try it" but it never did come until VCC2! He said thre mono VBC were done at the time of the last VBC update but wasn't sure they'd be in that release - they are still not out... His latest post on it was "they will happen but they are more complicated than you'd think". About VMR he posted on GS various things like FG-N is done, then later they need to figure out the transformer modelling for it, he said his monitor controller would ship in November but then fell silent. When asked about it, he eventually responded weeks later with something like "let me get in touch with the project manager and get an update" but then (of course) didn't. the latest update - now in February- is "we're waiting for some parts then it will ship". Great but, again, show it at AES, show it at NAMM but don't say it's shipping in November. As for AAX, Slate hides behind the fact that there are multiple Slates (Drums, Digital, Pro Audio, etc. - although some of these are under the same umbrella company called Yellow Matter Entertainment) which is why he'll say they won't release any new products (VMS for example) before releasing AAX for FG-X but then will release Batch Commander or whatever because that, while software, is somehow made by whatever company makes The Raven and not Slate Digital which makes FG-X. Dont know if anyone caught it but my VCC2 announcement email came from Steven Slate Drums which is NOT part of Slate Digital (the company he owns with FG) oops  Slate also didn't just port to AAX (which he should have and which he ultimately is for the FG-X AAX version that is coming "soon") he tweaks and adds and changes when all we wanted was use of the version we bought. It's a bit like taking your car in for a simple oil change then when you go to pick it up in an hour, they say it's not done, then a few months later you get it back and they've painted super cool racing stripes on your Corolla FOR FREE!!! Great and my car does look bitchin' and will increase my chances with the ladies, but all I wanted was an oil change and the use of the car I bought for the past few months I was waiting. I got a chuckle out of this. Great post. That is what it's like being a Slate customer (I have everything he's put out). |
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Post by ragan on Feb 26, 2015 13:52:03 GMT -6
Also, I do think VCC 2.0 sounds better. It's at least gain staged differently. Way more useable range from clean to dirty. I'm loving it. And in general, I could do without the LA pop-punk aesthetics and just totally over the top hype, but I think Slate's actual products are really good. If he would add some samples that don't sound like take-your-face-off-bright-pop to Trigger, I'd use that more, though I've been getting away from drum samples in general. Not using any on the current record I'm working on, but that's all a total aside. Point is, you take the good with the bad when you deal with Slate. Plugs are great, but there's a lot of hubris.
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Post by mrholmes on Feb 26, 2015 14:03:08 GMT -6
I had Slate's tape sim. It was so buggy they let me exchange it for another plug. I did get to hear it though, and was underwhelmed. To the contrary, UAD's Ampex is superb, and I've used tape a lot. I checked that link out mrholmes, thanks for that. I felt it was very distorted, but they might have done that for the purpose of showing just how far it can go. Still, it's good to hear a different flavor like a Revox. If you go 0 VU nothing is distorted. See the GUI you can do many things with it also going beyond what sounds good.  |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 26, 2015 15:39:38 GMT -6
Cool, thanks again.
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 26, 2015 18:36:02 GMT -6
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 26, 2015 21:59:42 GMT -6
Looks like too little too late to me, but I guess better late than never. I'd recommend trying Logic X just for the free plug ins alone. Apple's guitar amps are as good as every brand I've heard except one. They give you around 30 excellent drum kits, and their new compressors are fantastic, not to mention powerful editing capabilities, their Red Focusrite's way better than Slates FG-X right now.
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Post by levon on Feb 27, 2015 0:46:50 GMT -6
Sad how this thread deteriorated into Slate bashing again. I too bought FG-X and I use it in Logic with the bridge. Works fine and gives my no trouble. Now I even get it in 64 bit. I can't follow Martin's reasoning, if I buy a 32 bit plug I know it won't work in 64 bit. And with Slate's announcing history, I know that I have to take them with a grain of salt. Now can we go back to VCC, please? This thread is not about FG-X, right?
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Post by lcr on Feb 27, 2015 22:43:10 GMT -6
Sad how this thread deteriorated into Slate bashing again. I too bought FG-X and I use it in Logic with the bridge. Works fine and gives my no trouble. Now I even get it in 64 bit. I can't follow Martin's reasoning, if I buy a 32 bit plug I know it won't work in 64 bit. And with Slate's announcing history, I know that I have to take them with a grain of salt. Now can we go back to VCC, please? This thread is not about FG-X, right? I agree. They are a small company, they make mistakes, they even publicly admit it. I believe he even somewhere online admitted FGX was coded poorly, the reason it drains CPU and is/was difficult to port to 64 bit. But, when it was released it sounded great(still does). Avid crushed many companies with AAX. Some handled it better than others. At this point, reading about Slate fluffing a soon to be released product is NO SUPRISE. Its obviously his style. And yes, VMR & VCC 2.0 sound fantastic.. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 23:17:20 GMT -6
I still maintain that they are leading the pack very well wit breakthroughs in emulations.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 27, 2015 23:18:19 GMT -6
Sorry if I veered the thread off course Levon. My particular issue with FG-X was different than 99.9% of those who bought it. I only bought the 32 big plugin because I specifically asked Slate on the phone twice before buying if it would be 64 bit soon, and was promised it would be available in 64 bits by Spring, 2013. I also received confirmation of this from them via an email. So, I had every right to expect the plug to work in 64 bits within a reasonable time, as that's what I was promised. If you read carefully, I said wouldn't have had a valid issue, had it been otherwise. OK, I'm done with FG-X comments, apologies to all.
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Post by henge on Feb 28, 2015 8:30:19 GMT -6
Sad how this thread deteriorated into Slate bashing again. I too bought FG-X and I use it in Logic with the bridge. Works fine and gives my no trouble. Now I even get it in 64 bit. I can't follow Martin's reasoning, if I buy a 32 bit plug I know it won't work in 64 bit. And with Slate's announcing history, I know that I have to take them with a grain of salt. Now can we go back to VCC, please? This thread is not about FG-X, right? So we bash Slate even on RG. No escape!! lol I love Slate products ( VCC,VTM,VMR,TRigger). They are indispensable tools for me. Luckily I don't have the time or energy to bash him on public forums. Whenever I had a complaint I talked to his company directly and got great service. Can't ask for much more. ymmv. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 28, 2015 8:46:08 GMT -6
I hope my posts have been more of a constructive criticism than bashing. I've been impressed by some of Slate's achievements, admire his reaching for new and innovative ideas and products. I think these negative experiences have tempered his inclination to overhype and under produce. When that guy finds his balance, I bet he'll do even greater things down the road a bit. But, since we're on a public audio engineering forum, a bit of a buyer beware warning is appropriate and helpful to others with less Slate Digital experience in this instance I think.
So, the 2.0 version sounds better? I'm hopeful that when FG-X is finally updated it will in fact live up to Slate's hype.
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Post by mrholmes on Feb 28, 2015 10:51:02 GMT -6
Sad how this thread deteriorated into Slate bashing again. I too bought FG-X and I use it in Logic with the bridge. Works fine and gives my no trouble. Now I even get it in 64 bit. I can't follow Martin's reasoning, if I buy a 32 bit plug I know it won't work in 64 bit. And with Slate's announcing history, I know that I have to take them with a grain of salt. Now can we go back to VCC, please? This thread is not about FG-X, right? I agree. They are a small company, they make mistakes, they even publicly admit it. I believe he even somewhere online admitted FGX was coded poorly, the reason it drains CPU and is/was difficult to port to 64 bit. But, when it was released it sounded great(still does). Avid crushed many companies with AAX. Some handled it better than others. At this point, reading about Slate fluffing a soon to be released product is NO SUPRISE. Its obviously his style. And yes, VMR & VCC 2.0 sound fantastic.. Running myself a small company; sometimes its harder than customers think. We live in times where people think that a problem has to be solved right now, not tomorrow, not next year. But live is not a race and sometimes things need time. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 28, 2015 11:17:41 GMT -6
I think Vcc is a good update!
-it is aax and 64 bit: job one achieved, ( plug is current and more usable),
- two consoles updated and a new one added, job 2 achieved (,adds value to the tool),
- running in vmr, job 3 achieved ( gets older and new clients using new skin)
I know slate says the rest weren't tweaked and I haven't used vcc in 2 years but it sounds better to me: guess my ears are going senile ?
i think the others changes were trade offs: fewer features for more efficiency ?
my .02!
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