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Post by unit7 on Apr 17, 2016 9:43:03 GMT -6
Hi ariel ! Why are you assuming they are smaller? The Carnhills in the NV73 are the same that was re engineered for the reissue of the 10-series. Interesting though is that AMS/Neve (and a couple others) don't buy them from Carnhill anymore, but instead buy them from China. There's a vivid debate about how close the re issued xformers are to the originals, along with many other components in the design. Personally I stay away from those discussions except when seeing occassional info from Geoff Tanner. I have a rack of eight AMS/Neves here along with a couple of NV73s. The two don't sound exactly the same and don't behave the same when pushed. I have no idea if it's because of the different xformers (Carnhill vs Chinese made) or the choice of resistor value on strapped on the output xformer, or/and any other part of the design, but after a couple of years of road testing I really like the NV73. Enough to have almost built 16, and getting 20(!) more on the bench next week. 10 more for me and the other 10 for a couple of friends. They'll be my portable rig and hopefully later my front end if I move to a larger studio sometime.. Holy moly! We have a winner! Out of all the rigs uve built over the past few years, ur going for 26!!!! Of the nv73, u must really dig them! P Ha ha T! Thanks man! I just got like 25lbs of iron from Carnhill.. I'll have to shoot a pic of my bench when I start stuffing all 20 boards  Can't say if it's something I recognize from favorite classic albums and/or if it's because my fav studio in town has an old Neve desk with original 1084s, but clearly I'm a 'Neve guy'. And looking at the prospect of moving to a larger place sometime, having the 26 NV73s and 8 more 10-series reissues, would cover most preamp needs. |
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Post by ariel on Apr 17, 2016 19:16:36 GMT -6
I had read somewhere that the transformer size to fit into the 500 series was a bit smaller than say the 19" rack version . Wow soon to have 26 now that is lovely !
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Post by miscend on Apr 18, 2016 12:58:09 GMT -6
Theres a guy in gs and I cant remember his name but I think its Aaron who turned his aml ez 1073 into a full on neve clone. He went through many revisions never quite being able to make an exact replica until in the end he used mustard caps throughout, carbon resistors, and even the same wire neve used in the 70s and got it about 90% there. Dude knows his 1073s. He did a ton of cap changes before he was satisfied. So as im sure you know it all matters. I thought the EZ1073 was as close as you could get? |
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Apr 18, 2016 19:17:10 GMT -6
He modified the EZ1073 with different parts, but stuck with the same ez1073 PCB (and therefore the circuit)
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Post by unit7 on Apr 19, 2016 12:01:10 GMT -6
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Post by winetree on Apr 19, 2016 12:46:26 GMT -6
Paul,
I'm working on 4 - NV73s, might as well do the HPF while I'm at it.
I don't quite understand the mod wiring instructions on GDIY.
Any pictures?
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Post by unit7 on Apr 19, 2016 13:24:08 GMT -6
Paul, I'm working on 4 - NV73s, might as well do the HPF while I'm at it. I don't quite understand the mod wiring instructions on GDIY. Any pictures? Hmm, despite crappy looking, I thought it couldn't be more clear than the sketch on that thread:  This is a pic from today's .47uF mod. A bit ugly because this is the 3rd pair of caps in there:  Note that the upper left pin on the DPDT switch is the one not connected, just as the sketch |
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Post by unit7 on Apr 20, 2016 10:36:40 GMT -6
Let the stuffing begin!!  10 for me and the other 10 for a couple of friends. I'll post another pic when everything is racked and ready  |
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Post by mhbunch on Apr 20, 2016 12:15:27 GMT -6
Let the stuffing begin!! View Attachment10 for me and the other 10 for a couple of friends. I'll post another pic when everything is racked and ready Dang I'm jealous! |
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Post by unit7 on Apr 20, 2016 18:12:07 GMT -6
Let the stuffing begin!! 10 for me and the other 10 for a couple of friends. I'll post another pic when everything is racked and ready Dang I'm jealous! My intention, totally But seriously, I'm just ready with the bottom side, and this is soo slow.. |
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Post by mulmany on Apr 20, 2016 21:33:34 GMT -6
You are going to have that board memorized by the time you are done. It will be like one of those songs you record then can't get out of your head for years!
Good luck!
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Post by unit7 on Apr 24, 2016 2:31:30 GMT -6
I had read somewhere that the transformer size to fit into the 500 series was a bit smaller than say the 19" rack version . Wow soon to have 26 now that is lovely ! Thanks ariel! I'm fairly sure the VTB1148 used here is not a smaller version, but as you can see the PCBs are cut out to make room. Compared to the original Marinar I'm not sure, but I believe I read about a guy at GDIY who went to great length finding original and NOS parts for his NV73 builds and I believe he mentioned he had to grind some part of it to get it in. I just looked at Sound sculptors 73 clone and they are using another Carhill (VTB1847) that looks smaller, and their PCB doesn't have a cut out. Perhaps that's the one you've heard of. |
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Post by ariel on Apr 26, 2016 2:30:47 GMT -6
Thanks for the Info Paul! Just hoping our Canadian dollar can go up a bit more so the conversion wont be so high  I wouldnt even know where to start in looking for NOS and original parts. I would curious as to if there is a difference though. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 1:53:59 GMT -6
There is quite some different variants of transformers used by Neve.
Typically, input transformers leave a huge sonic stamp - their fingerprint will be amped, then the transistors maybe - i bought RCA and Motorola 2N3055's years ago and salvaged some from old hifi amps. Like from a very bad shape NAD3020...
I still have a pair of the Carnhills we had made after "slaughtered" marinairs, i.e. original specs. I always thought i should stuff some of my BA283AV clone pcbs and just cram them into a 19", might not even be a dual stage design, but just hotrodding or "simplemodding" a la JLM.
I guess a hotrodded 283 might have even more color, than a two-stage design. Well, as i said, IMHO the input transformers and the output stage topology do most of the sound. I really think this matters much more than the film capacitor types. I would most probably just use the WIMAs like most of the time and leave the color to the essential parts and the topology.
Of course, in an EQ or filter capacitors do matter more.
What to build i mostly decide by what i actually need. For a micpre a dual stage might be cool if you have old weak ribbons or dynamic microphones, otherwise, no tons of boost needed, so one stage might do the trick already, i guess the different approaches to NV 1073 type pre sound all have enough color. "The" Neve sound probably might not even exist, several flavors as they already used different transformers over time. Now AMS/Neve even use chinese transformers, not carnhill anymore (really?), oh well. But maybe they are at the point to wind the transformers up to specs needed by AMS. Must not be too bad......
Unfortunately, when looking for NOS transistors like the RCA 2N3055, beware of the fact that there are fakes on the market. As long as people are willing to pay more for NOS transistors,there are southasian backyard workshops, where kids relabel transistor casings...sad, but true. And not even easy to recognize. Most probably you have to AB listen to a known good part.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 2:08:40 GMT -6
(Sometimes these fakes are not even 2N3055. Don't know if there is still a shortage on the market like a few years ago. That time you could buy "2N3055" that were transistors "somewhere in the ballpark" of a 3055. Noisy as hell cheap transistors.)
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Post by unit7 on Apr 27, 2016 6:08:56 GMT -6
(Sometimes these fakes are not even 2N3055. Don't know if there is still a shortage on the market like a few years ago. That time you could buy "2N3055" that were transistors "somewhere in the ballpark" of a 3055. Noisy as hell cheap transistors.) Excuse my ignorance, but I thought the 2N3055 was the voltage regulator. Yes a transistor but not in the audio path..not? Re the other transistors I got NOS BC184C's on eBay a couple of years ago, almost all with good HFE which (on certain positions) is supposed to be key to keep noise low. I've noticed my builds has quite low noise, which was nice on that classical recording a mentioned earlier in this thread. But the 184s seem hard to find today so I settled with the ones speced on Don Classics BOM. I first got a batch with quite low HFE, then ordered another big batch for the current 20 units build and had great luck with those, measuring 200HFE more suddenly. Was a bit surprised! The BA283AVs was the ones used in the originals, right? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 7:55:50 GMT -6
Oh, it's actually driving the output.
AFAIK they were selected by Neve. I am not sure for what specs they were selected, though.
There is not much discussion about the role of the 2N3055 in the sound of the circuit. But i guess it makes a difference, but i quess the differences of different transformers are bigger.
The 2N3055 is a quite universal power transistor, not hi-fi (but the Neve is also not hi-fi).
And yes, this power transistor is also used in power supplies. :-)
Oh, and in power amps, too. if memory serves me right, my Peavey Bass amp also has some 2N3055 in the output stage.
but in this case it is the output transistor and drives the LO1166. Or drives the output unbalanced. It's an option mentioned in the original schematic.
If i am correct with my memory, modern 2N3055 do have other specs / faster, so it might make more of a difference to use NOS or modern part.
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Post by unit7 on Apr 27, 2016 8:33:14 GMT -6
Thanks @smallbutfine! Even though I'm far from really understanding, this was another piece of the puzzle |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 18:47:16 GMT -6
Paul, i guess you are closer to the real understanding, than you think you are.
Diodes, tubes and transistors are not too complicated to understand. Understanding pro-audio related schematics, common designs, what the different building blocks really do, is easier to understand nowadays after a good amount of de-mystification.
Last but not least due to the non-commercial DIY groups that in the end not only analyzed commercial designs and tried to openly discuss them.
Also in the end with refined or more generic designs that even went back into commercial production. May it be with the expansion of the boutique pro-audio business sector or, unfortunately, by simply commercializing of open designs.(Read: chinese copy.)
The sharing of in-depth knowledge and collective learning in special interest groups is one of the greatest side-effects of the internet.
Group-DIY is/was the source of many enlightening discussions. At least, if you leave the "paint-by-numbers" kit support threads. Unfortunately these took over most of GDIYs traffic, one reason, quite a lot of people don't write there anymore. Actually, i am one of them....
I can only encourage everybody interested in DIY to try leaving the paths of the kits sooner or later and build things from scratch. To design and etch your own PCBs. To make your own experiments. To dig into writing your own BoMs. To dig into the theory, physics and math, without the fear of not understanding them. Not because you would need it nowadays to build your own studio gear. Because you are not, anymore.
But because it is actually *fun*, extremely rewarding, and you gain great knowledge.
Don't be afraid to jump into the cold water with this. 1 1/2 decades ago, there was only cold water for those interested in this nerdy topic. And people beeing excited and addicted to curiosity.
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Post by unit7 on Apr 28, 2016 15:54:21 GMT -6
Ultra patience mode engaged, so this is going quite well. Doing this at home in the evenings in front of the TV. CNN is the favorite soldering channel btw. 8 days and like 3500 solder joints in. Probably like 2500 left so probably past half way through this huge (for me at least) project Attachments:
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Post by unit7 on May 7, 2016 16:51:38 GMT -6
With the risk of making you tired of my bragging I just have to post a pic of my bench right now. If you're not a professional builder or work at BAE or Heritage this is not the everyday sight. This is 24 kits - twenty newly built and four NV73EQ built a month ago - all waiting for a relay and a cap scheduled to ship Monday. Past midnight here and quite content and a bit proud, celebrating with my fav beer! Attachments:
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Post by tonycamphd on May 7, 2016 21:39:11 GMT -6
With the risk of making you tired of my bragging I just have to post a pic of my bench right now. If you're not a professional builder or work at BAE or Heritage this is not the everyday sight. This is 24 kits - twenty newly built and four NV73EQ built a month ago - all waiting for a relay and a cap scheduled to ship Monday. Past midnight here and quite content and a bit proud, celebrating with my fav beer! P, that is ridiculously AWESOME!! |
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Post by mhbunch on May 8, 2016 11:28:33 GMT -6
With the risk of making you tired of my bragging I just have to post a pic of my bench right now. If you're not a professional builder or work at BAE or Heritage this is not the everyday sight. This is 24 kits - twenty newly built and four NV73EQ built a month ago - all waiting for a relay and a cap scheduled to ship Monday. Past midnight here and quite content and a bit proud, celebrating with my fav beer! My jaw is on the floor. Nice work man! Really interested in how the EQ additions sound. Was thinking about grabbing them for my pair but can't seem to part with the custom faceplates on mine |
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Post by unit7 on May 8, 2016 12:20:30 GMT -6
With the risk of making you tired of my bragging I just have to post a pic of my bench right now. If you're not a professional builder or work at BAE or Heritage this is not the everyday sight. This is 24 kits - twenty newly built and four NV73EQ built a month ago - all waiting for a relay and a cap scheduled to ship Monday. Past midnight here and quite content and a bit proud, celebrating with my fav beer! My jaw is on the floor. Nice work man! Really interested in how the EQ additions sound. Was thinking about grabbing them for my pair but can't seem to part with the custom faceplates on mine Thanks m8! Re the eq version I've recorded with it a couple of times and for the very moderate eq I do when recording I found it nice, pleasant and doing the job. However just the other day, in mix, I did a brief A/B with my AMS/Neve reissues on acoustic and snare. I found it lacking the character I associate with the Neve 10-series. |
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2016 0:12:09 GMT -6
Ha, i like the battery of iron, standing there like soldiers awaiting battle!
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Can't say if it's something I recognize from favorite classic albums and/or if it's because my fav studio in town has an old Neve desk with original 1084s, but clearly I'm a 'Neve guy'. And looking at the prospect of moving to a larger place sometime, having the 26 NV73s and 8 more 10-series reissues, would cover most preamp needs.
