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Post by levon on Nov 21, 2014 8:19:41 GMT -6
No argument there.....yet there is not one John Mayer tune in my head that I could hum right now....though there are dozens of Stones tunes. And I'm not even a fan. Edit: one John Mayer tune popped into my head. Lol, lots of John Mayer tunes in my head |
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Post by RicFoxx on Nov 21, 2014 8:52:18 GMT -6
John Mayer is a completely different beast. He can play intricate syncopated simple complex rifts while singing over the top. If you can't hum John Mayer tunes you probably don't listen to him.
On another note...the last stones album I really enjoyed was Bridges to Babylon.
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Post by popmann on Nov 21, 2014 8:58:27 GMT -6
I can hum you plenty of Mayer-prior to his deciding to be a cowboy...and literally maybe one or two Stones song. That's got nothing to do with anything but exposure. Wife loves REM ....I don't....I can sing you plenty of their hooks--because she's played them so much over the years. They're not generally even catchy hooks. But, they've been beaten into my head for nearly 20 years now. Plus I can sing you Maps and All About The Bass--only from Scott Bradlee's remakes. I heard those by Megan whomever and Maroon 5 plenty of times and couldn't have hummed anything. Again--it's a brain attention thing. If you dig the music....you sing it. If you sing it and you don't dig the music, you're just lying to yourself because you don't WANT to like the music. Afterall, Haters gonna hate , hate, hate, yo....  That said, if we're ragging Keith....bad form....why? Lots of talent--it's just not broad. At all. It's one of those narrow gifts. Trading licks with Mayer--he might as well be playing sax....he couldn't do it, I'm sure...bad idea...but, when it comes time to lay that trademark "white guy R&B" rhythm guitar RIGHT in the pocket, he's like an idiot savant. And, again-saying that as a guitarist....who could give a shit about the Stones' music....but, that effortless timing is....well--he's a little like Clapton--guitarists LOVE to rag Eric for his relatively simple pentatonic leads--doesn't take much practice to play exactly the same notes. But, I can pick Clapton blindly out of a crowd all playing the exact same notes....none of the SOUND like THAT when they play them. How is Clapton are R&B rhythm? I'd venture not good--why he hires Doyle to play with him. I digress. I realize I brought up accomplishment, which is dangerous around musicians who are the cattiest bitches in the world....but, that was simply really "A" factor that wasn't being factored into Albini's thoughts. He likes people who don't need to learn to play well....or effortlessly master instruments....which is OK....no problem--it's the blindness to the OTHER 90% of music buyers' tastes....is the reason for the disconnect. That millions paid TO hear Phil Collins records he so snarkily dismisses. What are THOSE people to listen to now? Right. THAT is the industry people are complaining about being absent. If you want to hear John Mayer, you literally won't. Well--I mean, you wouldn't have in 2001 or whenever....thus he would never have evolved the way he has....because he'd be serving Starbucks lattes in Boston or something and not fucking half of Hollywood and releasing whatever number of records about his life he has. No label=no tour support. No tour=no exposure. No exposure=no career. John would be working at a starbucks in sleeping his way around the housewives of Boston, maybe playing some in a club there once a week for free after his shift at Starbucks....mainly to pick up Berklee girls....until one of them marries him and he gets a better day gig....posts a lot of hate on internet forums about other guitarists from his cubicle. |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Nov 21, 2014 9:51:17 GMT -6
As far as I could ever tell, the words "punk," "underground" and "alternative" have always absolutely reeked of press release hype. Albini was originally a reviewer for one of the big Chicago newspapers and understands that game backwards and forward. Sears and Roebuck invented "country" music in Chicago too and "authentic country" is just as big of a lie. Unfortunately people often identify with bullshit.
There are two kinds of music listeners: engaged fans vs. making a fashion statement using background music. Only the former but tickets and recordings. Radio and streaming BOTH pander to the latter.
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Post by joseph on Nov 21, 2014 9:54:11 GMT -6
I realize I brought up accomplishment, which is dangerous around musicians who are the cattiest bitches in the world....but, that was simply really "A" factor that wasn't being factored into Albini's thoughts. He likes people who don't need to learn to play well....or effortlessly master instruments.... Where do you get this from? Just because he plays abrasive music doesn't mean that's all he likes. Notice something in this picture of electrical audio?  On the other subject- Keith Richards has feel. John Mayer not really. Compare this crap with the Beatles' rooftop. No feel in comparison. Not to mention how hammy and awful his singing is compared with Lennon's! |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Nov 21, 2014 10:02:18 GMT -6
I've seen Keith do some blues things acoustically when he was younger that were as cagey and brilliant as BB King in his prime. I agree, Keith's rudimentary solos seem amateurish when compared to fluid and talented technicians like Mayer, but in a hundred years, they'll still be talking about things Keith Richard's created while Mayer's been long forgotten, and there's good reason for it. That woosey "Waiting for the World to Change" kind of slop doesn't begin to touch the brilliance of Keith's 3 or 4 notes on "Let it Bleed". Miles Davis was at times a minimalist, and Picasso said it took him a lifetime to learn how to paint one simple sweep of the brush, and I believe him. Don't get me wrong. Mayer's playing is impressive, he's just a lightweight as a singer/songwriter.
Now, back to Albini's comments, I unfortunately don't have enough time to read them more carefully, so I'll just say that if he was starting out today, he might have a very different opinion about the state of the music business. If 99.% of all musicians need a day job to support themselves, I think something's wrong with that picture.
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Post by jimwilliams on Nov 21, 2014 10:31:52 GMT -6
They have those ear buds in all the time playing that musically complicated 'rap' stuff. Actually rap is performance art that is tremendous live when done well. Recordings don't do it justice. I wouldn't know, I require some music with my music. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Nov 21, 2014 10:55:49 GMT -6
I made it through about 50 seconds of rhythmically weak bidweee/bidwoooo licks until "Mr. cool" with his $40k rolex says "can you feel that?", to which i replied "NO..., i feel nothing" to my screen lol
The key to badass is believability, I don't believe him, he's got exactly 0 juice, and i could give a shit how many clueless people magazine readers buy his records, didn't he bang Taylor Swift? I will say it's a pretty convincing tone for a frozen white guy who so badly wants you to believe he's got "IT" (i'm mostly just jokingly flaming it up in good fun here 8)
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Post by kevinnyc on Nov 21, 2014 11:22:27 GMT -6
My apologies for pulling this thread off topic....
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Post by M57 on Nov 21, 2014 11:24:51 GMT -6
If 99.% of all musicians need a day job to support themselves, I think something's wrong with that picture. Actually, it's much worse than that ..because today there are more 'musicians' who can produce something and call it music. So what would be acceptable for the picture to be right? Perhaps we need to back up the train and ask what set of ethics demands that musicians should be able to 'make a living' playing their own original music in the first place? How many people that love to do math (and I'm talking about the best of them) can make a living just doing their own math? Answer: effectively none - The only way to make that happen is to teach, and incorporate your passions into your professional mandate to publish, etc. - Otherwise, you're doing it in your spare time. At that top of that scale, the money is just OK. If you want to make the big money as a mathematician, my guess is you're working for a corporation or the government doing what THEY want. The analog here is that what THEY want in the music industry is ..well, crap, cookie-cutter, elevatory, etc.., and at the top of the pay scale, the litmus test is - can you dance while you do it, and will adolescent girls be able to sing along? |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Nov 21, 2014 12:08:44 GMT -6
Hey, when I click all the YouTube links posted here, I get a loud "click", and a spinning wheel. Never had trouble before. I had to upgrade to Yosemite, don't know if that made a difference. YouTube links on Facebook worked fine..
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Post by popmann on Nov 21, 2014 12:21:03 GMT -6
I realize I brought up accomplishment, which is dangerous around musicians who are the cattiest bitches in the world....but, that was simply really "A" factor that wasn't being factored into Albini's thoughts. He likes people who don't need to learn to play well....or effortlessly master instruments.... Where do you get this from? Just because he plays abrasive music doesn't mean that's all he likes. Notice something in this picture of electrical audio? I'm not sure what you're saying. EA is his day job. I don't know what his recording a string section or teaching a class has to do with his tastes. How many clients do you turn down because you don't like their music? He has been outspoken about his taste for decades. I am amazed at the amount of shade being thrown every which way....wow....what DO you folks listen to? I'm tempted to respond with nothing but lists of what new music I'm listening to and enjoying. Made in mostly 2014....but, I've dealt with enough hipster douches to know that would simply be call to ridicule. I'm gonna start another thread....because I'm curious. |
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Post by popmann on Nov 21, 2014 12:53:29 GMT -6
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Post by wiz on Nov 21, 2014 15:16:58 GMT -6
I saw the stones once, about 20 years ago. They were in their early 50s
They smoked.
Songs were great.
Keith played the most awkward , rusty, crusty guitar solos ever, and I loved every note. What he played was so awfully .... right.
They were a larger than life band, playing awesome songs to a crowd of about 70 000 people.
I still think Gimme Shelter is one of the best guitar songs ever....
Geeze they were unreal that night.
I wasn't a huge stones fan before, but I was after.
cheers
Wiz
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Nov 21, 2014 16:04:07 GMT -6
I've always heard the Stones were hot and cold. Riveting one night and absolutely sucking the next. I've heard the same about Sinatra.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Nov 21, 2014 17:18:38 GMT -6
Since I brought up Keith Richards, I'll say this, I've seen almost everyone except The Beatles, (pardon the slight exaggeration), but I have. The Stones were towering, monolithic, topping everyone I've ever seen. I wasn't exactly their biggest fan at the time, but it was clear they were untouchable as a band. Keith and Charlie could just swing like no one else could, and that includes Led Zeppelin and The Who in their prime. Keith's triumph wasn't as an individual player, but as the band's dynamic musical leader.
Now, as to the state of the music business, I've seen my typical income in dollars turn to less than pennies, and whatever Steve Albini thinks, he's still coming from quite a unique position now,and he can afford his principals. If he was thirty years old today and beginning to produce, I wonder if he'd see it a little differently, not being able to afford to rent an an apartment, start a family, or buy breakfast in a diner, possibly ever.
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Post by swurveman on Nov 22, 2014 11:29:58 GMT -6
Albini merely sees his engineering and mixing duties as a day job, A day job where if he engineers he gets a $750.00 booking fee and an $750.00 engineering fee. That's merely $1,500.00 a day. But hey, why should anybody expect making any money from music? |
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